#2
Since A# is the flat 5th, it gives the E minor a diminshed sound, although I don't know what the name of the chord would be since it still has the 5th as well.
#3
So it should be referred to as Bb? and what key would you be playing in if you were playing in em and using a Bb powerchord? Still Em?

"although I don't know what the name of the chord would be since it still has the 5th as well." What chord are you referring to?
#4
I dunno...personally I think it sounds pretty darned awful
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#6
Yeah...the notes of the Bb powerchord are the b5 and b9 of Em...sounds like balls on its own.
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#7
Yeah it would be Bb.

Well...what key you would be playing in wouldn't be Em since the 5b isn't in that scale. There are a number of scales that would fit that, though, the E Half-Whole Scale being the simplest. It goes E, F, G, Ab, Bb, Cb, D.

I didn't know you were talking about playing those chords separately, sorry. I thought you meant you were playing an Em chords with a Bb in it.
#8
Might be E locrian then? which generally sounds horrible.
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#10
Quote by rebel624
Does it have something to do with playing a combination of the keys B flat and Em?


No. It's just Em.
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#12
Quote by rebel624
Why does Eminor and A# sound so good togethor? Whats the theory behind this? I've ran into a stump!



It's a tritone relationship, which is very common in metal.

The chords are not in the same key.
( chords don't have to be in the same key to sound good together)

There are a ton of metal riffs that utilize this relationship.
The tritone is "the devils interval" after-all. How very metal!

* this relationship can of-course be found in genre's other than metal.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jan 20, 2009,
#13
Ok so it's a tritone and a tritone is an Augmented 4th. Is this the best answer? So basically You can play Em with an B powerchord a C powerchord and the tritone Bb powerchord, and it still sounds good. So basically your still in the key of Em and adding a "Tritone."

So the same reasoning follows with the A power chord played with an Eb powerchord?

This goes against what I said earlier. In order for it to be a tritone it would have to be called a A# not Bb because a tritone is an augmented 4th. Same with the 2nd example it would be a D# not Eb.
Last edited by rebel624 at Jan 20, 2009,
#14
Well a tritone is an augmented 4th/diminished 5th

E - A# = tritone
E - Bb = tritone


yes, an A power chord to Eb/D# power chord is the same reasoning.
they are not in the same key, but they sound "good" together. They have a very typical metal sound.

Half steps are used in much the same way. Actually tritones and half steps (m2) are incredibly prevelant, to the point of being a cliche of the metal genre.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jan 20, 2009,
#15
Is it possible to consider this piece as being in E Locrian? or better to leave it as Em with an added bV?
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#16
Quote by GuitarMunky
It's a tritone relationship, which is very common in metal.

The chords are not in the same key.
( chords don't have to be in the same key to sound good together)

There are a ton of metal riffs that utilize this relationship.
The tritone is "the devils interval" after-all. How very metal!

* this relationship can of-course be found in genre's other than metal.

He's not talking about a progression - he's talking about playing the Em scale over a Bb power chord.
Actually called Mark!

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#17
^ I see. well, like I said, they are in different keys. Choose your melody notes accordingly.
#18
Quote by insatyrguitar
No...because Bb is not in Em.


That doesn't matter is the slightest. The use of chromatic tones does not change the key.

He's not talking about a progression - he's talking about playing the Em scale over a Bb power chord.


Is he? Well that's something entirely different.
I can't imagine that sounding good, but if you like the sound of it...go for it.
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Last edited by Archeo Avis at Jan 20, 2009,
#19
Quote by GuitarMunky
^ I see. well, like I said, they are in different keys. Choose your melody notes accordingly.

NO I AM TALKING ABOUT USING IT IN THE EM PROGRESSION

godsmack uses it in Awake, and I think it's an Em progression. Well it starts with Bb and resolves to Em.
Last edited by rebel624 at Jan 20, 2009,
#20
Quote by rebel624
NO I AM TALKING ABOUT USING IT IN THE EM PROGRESSION

godsmack uses it in Awake, and I think it's an Em progression. Well it starts with Bb and resolves to Em.


Ok thats what I thought in the 1st place. My original post stands.

It's not an E minor progression as in "a chord progression that is in the key of E minor". it is 2 chords that are a tritone away. A typical device for bands like godsmack.
#21
if you're in the key of E minor then you wouldn't call it Bb. Since there are no flats in E minor, it would be called A#. And in any key, especially pentatonic scales, playing the augmented 4th between a natural 4th and 5th--especially as a chromatic lick--sounds quite good. Adds some nice flavour to what you're playing, makes it bluesier and jazzier.
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#22
Quote by Ace88
if you're in the key of E minor then you wouldn't call it Bb.


That would depend on the context. If the note is actually being used as a flatted fifth, it would be proper to call it Bb.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#23
yeah but im speaking in general here. Most of the time, obviously in cases involving diminished chords it doesn't apply, but 9 out of 10 times you would call it A#. That's the way i was taught, maybe im wrong.
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#24
Quote by Ace88
if you're in the key of E minor then you wouldn't call it Bb. Since there are no flats in E minor, it would be called A#. And in any key, especially pentatonic scales, playing the augmented 4th between a natural 4th and 5th--especially as a chromatic lick--sounds quite good. Adds some nice flavour to what you're playing, makes it bluesier and jazzier.



There is no A# in the Key of E minor either. In this case it makes no difference whether you refer to it as Bb or A#.

It's 2 chords that are a tritone apart.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jan 20, 2009,
#25
is this the kind of sound your talking about ?

http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=gw5k6FYKMfU

At 0:40 he's playing two chords that sound really evil together. I know i'm not helping, i just want to know if this is what you're talking about. And if it is then i agree, it sounds awesome.
#27
Any time you play the scales, chords, or notes of an E and Bb note together, you're going to get that "tritone" sound. A tritone is made to build tension, so that dissonance is the cool sound you're hearing. The Bb desperatley wants to resolve to an A, and the E desperatley wants to resolve to F, which would be consanance (A major third). Or the Bb could resolve down to an Ab, thus making a minor third, which is still more stable than the tritone.

So in short, what you hear is the dissonance wanting to resolve.
#29
Quote by Axe720
Any time you play the scales, chords, or notes of an E and Bb note together, you're going to get that "tritone" sound. A tritone is made to build tension, so that dissonance is the cool sound you're hearing. The Bb desperatley wants to resolve to an A, and the E desperatley wants to resolve to F, which would be consanance (A major third). Or the Bb could resolve down to an Ab, thus making a minor third, which is still more stable than the tritone.

So in short, what you hear is the dissonance wanting to resolve.


Interesting comment about dissonance and resolution.

I see the Em - Bb relationship in three separte ways:

1) As a progression within the E half/whole diminished, sorta like a previous poster said.

E half/whole: E F G Ab Bb B C# D

Em: E G B
Bb: Bb D F (Assuming it's Bb major triad, not Bb Power chord)

That is to say, if you wanted to play over those two chords using only 1 scale, you'd be set using this scale.

2) As a modulation, from E minor to E locrian (over Bb), or from E minor to Bb Lydian. Whenever I hear that sort of thing (up a #4 to a major chord) I feel it as Lydian.

3) As two unconnected chords. I'd play E dorian #4 and Bb Lydian
Last edited by kampfgolem at Jan 21, 2009,
#30
Quote by kampfgolem
Interesting comment about dissonance and resolution.

I see the Em - Bb relationship in three separte ways:

1) As a progression within the E half/whole diminished, sorta like a previous poster said.

E half/whole: E F G Ab Bb B C# D

Em: E G B
Bb: Bb D F (Assuming it's Bb major triad, not Bb Power chord)

That is to say, if you wanted to play over those two chords using only 1 scale, you'd be set using this scale.

2) As a modulation, from E minor to E locrian (over Bb), or from E minor to Bb Lydian. Whenever I hear that sort of thing (up a #4 to a major chord) I feel it as Lydian.

3) As two unconnected chords. I'd play E dorian #4 and Bb Lydian


Interesting comment as well.
#31
If you want a prime example of how this would be used, look up Bat Country by Avenged Sevenfold. The main riff has this same thing going on, except it goes from D to Ab. It sounds really good when used the right way :] But they have it resolve back to the open D (the octave below the first). In fact, alot of their songs on their whole City of Evil album have this tri-tone relationship going on.

EDIT: And to answer the question, I believe it's because it builds tension and resolution. Going from the E to A# creates a tense atmosphere and also implies that it's going to resolve to the B, or to the root again.
Last edited by DiminishedFifth at Jan 23, 2009,