Page 1 of 13
#1
I searched and didn't come up with anything.

With the word being thrown around and used in a spooky way to try and scare dumb Americans who still haven't gotten over the Cold War, I figured I'd ask UG about their thoughts on Socialism (keeping in mind that is doesn't = Communism). Plus, I think the definition gets pretty skewed, so maybe some healthy discussion will help clear up any confusion.

My thoughts: As long as it is still a democratic society, I see nothing wrong with it... but I'm not very familiar with Socialism. It is a very broad topic and a philosophy that is a bit hard to grasp by just reading about it, so I think a discussion will be helpful for my own understanding. All I know is that their are democratic socialist countries in Europe who seem to be doing very well for themselves (as far as having a healthy, peaceful and prosperous society... from what I hear).

So... discuss.

And if I am wrong about anything I said thus far, feel free to correct me.
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#4
i think its fine...i mean, with our mixed economy it seems like the best choice.
#5
Socialism is for pussies, Communism is the way to go.
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#6
Im a big fan of socialism,i had a history teacher who was socialist last year,he inspired me to become one too (obviously he only pointed out the good points,but whatever...). I just dont know if it can work. If you take a look at any country that has attempted any kind of alternative government (communism,fascism,socialism), most have failed except Cuba and to an extent China,theyre still partially communist. But otherwise,i LOVE the idea.
#7
I'm all for it. Or at least social democracy. None of this Democratic-Republic ****.
#9
I don't agree with socialist economic and trade policy, but I'm glad my country has a 'socialist' National Health System.
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There's been sooo many threads done on this; I don't even wanna hear that you used the searchbar. Staring at it and giggling does not count.
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#12
Quote by PaperStSoapCo
As long as it is still a democratic society

I think any true socialistic country is supposed to be ruled by the people by definition. Also I think socialism is good if it's pulled off right, like the Scandinavian countries.
#13
well, personally, its a great form of goverment and i see know more wrong with it then democracy, but the major problem is that you will always have a power hungry person come to power, or a good person who will become corrupt, but the same thing goes for any form of goverment. if you wanna learn more, look up Karl Marx, or research Marxism
#14
Without it, there would be no public schools, police, fire dept, that sort of thing. When you pay taxes, you are more or less taking part in socialism.
#15
Socialism is great, in theory
what it really comes down to be, however, is a system that encourages lack of self motivation and activeness
It encourages failure by not punishing it, in the sense that you know no matter what you do, you will at least be taken care of, so there is not reason to do your best.
The tax rate in Europe is also ridiculous, to pay for all these socialist programs
When you look through history, it is the countries that had completely free market and almost no government intrusion that achieved the most and were the greatest, such as Archaic Athens for example
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#17
Quote by radioplay
Im a big fan of socialism,i had a history teacher who was socialist last year,he inspired me to become one too (obviously he only pointed out the good points,but whatever...). I just dont know if it can work. If you take a look at any country that has attempted any kind of alternative government (communism,fascism,socialism), most have failed except Cuba and to an extent China,theyre still partially communist. But otherwise,i LOVE the idea.


What you really have to do is look at countrys with different amounts of implemented "socialism"(social security, social nets etc), the west compared to the east. Europe compared to the States, etc...

You will see that the highest "socialized" countries, usually, have a higher standard of living, less poverty, happier people, than the ones with a lesser degree
#18
Quote by radioplay
Im a big fan of socialism,i had a history teacher who was socialist last year,he inspired me to become one too (obviously he only pointed out the good points,but whatever...). I just dont know if it can work. If you take a look at any country that has attempted any kind of alternative government (communism,fascism,socialism), most have failed except Cuba and to an extent China,theyre still partially communist. But otherwise,i LOVE the idea.


My English teacher was like that, but he was hesitant to advocate Socialism. But he talked about it and it was obvious he was a fan.

But Capitalism can't last either. It has these on and off depressions and recessions which make the rich richer and the poor poorer. If it's really a question of what is fair, then I don't think Capitalism can last very long either. It seems like all options have a downside... but Socialism evens the playing field a bit.
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#19
It has good points but I don't see it working at all.
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#20
Quote by AllTimeNewbie
What you really have to do is look at countrys with different amounts of implemented "socialism"(social security, social nets etc), the west compared to the east. Europe compared to the States, etc...

You will see that the highest "socialized" countries, usually, have a higher standard of living, less poverty, happier people, than the ones with a lesser degree


Exactly. I don't see a problem with higher taxes as long as I get something out of it. In the US, we are spending 10 billion a month on a war when that money could be better spent on public schools or healthcare reform. I don't think the taxes would be all that different in the US, but at least we'd be seeing more results for our money.
Quote by Article
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#21
Seeing as how you were born in '88, you're probably too young to remember when Russia was experiencing shortages of everything from toilet paper to food. Under Socialist control, there is no private ownership of property. They also believe that Capitalism unfairly concentrates wealth and power among a select few. Considering that Russia and China are migrating more towards a Democratic society, you tell me if it's working for them.
#22
The reason socialism is deemed negative here in America is because we are a capitalist nation and the government always screws things up over here.

Socialism may work for canada and europe. But lets face it; america's government never makes anything better.
"The future's uncertain, and The End is always near."
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#23
Quote by KG6_Steven
Considering that Russia and China are migrating more towards a Democratic society, you tell me if it's working for them.


They aren't. They WERE, both of them are now returning to socialism.
"The future's uncertain, and The End is always near."
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#24
Quote by PaperStSoapCo
Exactly. I don't see a problem with higher taxes as long as I get something out of it. In the US, we are spending 10 billion a month on a war when that money could be better spent on public schools or healthcare reform. I don't think the taxes would be all that different in the US, but at least we'd be seeing more results for our money.


:thumpsup:

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#25
Too many freeloaders in this country for it to work. I'll stick with capitalism.
#26
Socialism 's ideals are beautiful, but then again so are communism's on paper.

Clearly defined, socialism is (in very basic terms) a type of governing where the government generally owns, produces, and distributes most if not all goods and services. I, for one, thing socialist health care is the way to go.All goods and service become more easily accessible to the people becuase they are government controlled and/or regulated, but taxes go through the roof.

The media vilifies socialism becuase Karl Marx is considered a tyrant in our country. Essentially socialism was born with the idea of fixing all the problems with capitalism (economic crashes and low morals in leadership) but far surpassed capitalism in both.

I won't say if it's right or wrong, but I will say this: anything is better than the way americas healthcare is run now. Insurance companies run our system now.

IMO socialism is just like communism: if it is done right, it could be a great blessing to the people. The only problem with the two is we can't trust our leaders. They abuse power, use things for personal gain, and hide behind an ideal.

If you want an example of this look at Che Guevarra compared to Fidel Castro. Castro had him killed becuase he knew the people believed in him and that he could become a threat. Che's system of communism was for the people and would have been a great blessing, Fidel used communism to hold onto power.

Niether will ever work becuase power corrupts. Which is sad becuase its the people that suffer.
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Last edited by gizmodious at Jan 21, 2009,
#27
Quote by KG6_Steven
Seeing as how you were born in '88, you're probably too young to remember when Russia was experiencing shortages of everything from toilet paper to food. Under Socialist control, there is no private ownership of property. They also believe that Capitalism unfairly concentrates wealth and power among a select few. Considering that Russia and China are migrating more towards a Democratic society, you tell me if it's working for them.


Well. Let's be fair, after Lenin died, Stalin squashed all chances of the people actually having a say. And Kruschev re-implemented what was, if not complete then borderline anyway, capitalism in, (I think it was)'53

Quote by SlinkyBlue
The reason socialism is deemed negative here in America is because we are a capitalist nation and the government always screws things up over here.

Socialism may work for canada and europe. But lets face it; america's government never makes anything better.


That, and almost a century of anti-red propaganda
#28
Quote by radioplay
Im a big fan of socialism,i had a history teacher who was socialist last year,he inspired me to become one too (obviously he only pointed out the good points,but whatever...). I just dont know if it can work. If you take a look at any country that has attempted any kind of alternative government (communism,fascism,socialism), most have failed except Cuba and to an extent China,theyre still partially communist. But otherwise,i LOVE the idea.



Australia has some ideas that are pretty socialist, technically not a socialist country, but some of our ideas are.

For instance, we have free healthcare, we have unemployment handouts, all in all it works out pretty well, cause you still want a job so that you can go to private hospitals, buy better ****, and generally speaking have a better life.
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#29
Quote by gizmodious
Socialism 's ideals are beautiful, but then again so are communism's on paper.

Clearly defined, socialism is (in ver basic terms) a type of governing where the government generally owns, produces, and distributes most if not all goods and services. I, for one, thing socialist health care is the way to go.

A simple breakdown for socialism is this: All goods and service become more easily accessible to the people becuase they are government controlled and/or regulated, but taxes go through the roof.

The media vilifies socialism becuase Karl Marx is considered a tyrant in our country. Essentially socialism was born with the idea of fixing all the problems with capitalism (economic crashes and low morals in leadership) but far surpassed capitalism in both.

I won't say if it's right or wrong, but I will say this: anything is better than the way americas healthcare is run now. Insurance companies run our system now.

IMO socialism is just like communism: if it is done right, it could be a great blessing to the people. The only problem with the two is we can't trust our leaders. They abuse power, use things for personal gain, and hide behind an ideal.


If only more people thought like you do
#30
I'm not much of a fan for socialism because I don't want to work my ass off getting through college and make an honest living to give a large portion of my salary to help pay for some burnout's health insurance.

It work's in Europe I guess, but it will never work in America. Although I believe we're heading there very soon with a very liberal legislature and president. Also, my generation of Americans are pretty stupid and naive, and most of them support it.
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#31
Quote by 0RI0N
It has good points but I don't see it working at all.

I love it when people say things like this.

You could say the exact same thing about Capitalism.

The truth of the matter is there is no perfect system, but I think that Socialism is the best one, mainly for the reason our society is founded on the idea working together to make everyones life easier and having people fighting each other economically hinders this.
#32
Quote by KG6_Steven
Seeing as how you were born in '88, you're probably too young to remember when Russia was experiencing shortages of everything from toilet paper to food. Under Socialist control, there is no private ownership of property. They also believe that Capitalism unfairly concentrates wealth and power among a select few. Considering that Russia and China are migrating more towards a Democratic society, you tell me if it's working for them.


That was Communism. Not the same thing. And I think I read somewhere that after the wall fell, the standard of living in Russia dropped significantly.
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She pulled off his left testicle and tried to swallow it, before spitting it out. A friend handed it back to Mr Jones saying "That's yours"

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#33
Quote by Siege of Power
Socialism is great, in theory
what it really comes down to be, however, is a system that encourages lack of self motivation and activeness
It encourages failure by not punishing it, in the sense that you know no matter what you do, you will at least be taken care of, so there is not reason to do your best.
The tax rate in Europe is also ridiculous, to pay for all these socialist programs
When you look through history, it is the countries that had completely free market and almost no government intrusion that achieved the most and were the greatest, such as Archaic Athens for example


I agree with some of that, especially the parts about lack of self motivation and the benefits of a free market. But what you say about taxation is not true, I pay no more tax each month here than I did when I lived in Italy or my home country of the UK. I'm not sure about the States, but European tax is not excessive when you see the quality of the services that are provided. (at least in my experience)
Quote by n to the k
^ you are wise


Quote by Maus24
There's been sooo many threads done on this; I don't even wanna hear that you used the searchbar. Staring at it and giggling does not count.
The worlds fu cked up and we lit the fuse, its all used up what you gonna do?
#34
Quote by AllTimeNewbie
If only more people thought like you do


If people would at least study the same material and come to their own conclusion, I'd be happy. Thanks for the kudos.
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#35
Quote by gizmodious
Socialism 's ideals are beautiful, but then again so are communism's on paper.

Clearly defined, socialism is (in very basic terms) a type of governing where the government generally owns, produces, and distributes most if not all goods and services. I, for one, thing socialist health care is the way to go.All goods and service become more easily accessible to the people becuase they are government controlled and/or regulated, but taxes go through the roof.

The media vilifies socialism becuase Karl Marx is considered a tyrant in our country. Essentially socialism was born with the idea of fixing all the problems with capitalism (economic crashes and low morals in leadership) but far surpassed capitalism in both.

I won't say if it's right or wrong, but I will say this: anything is better than the way americas healthcare is run now. Insurance companies run our system now.

IMO socialism is just like communism: if it is done right, it could be a great blessing to the people. The only problem with the two is we can't trust our leaders. They abuse power, use things for personal gain, and hide behind an ideal.

If you want an example of this look at Che Guevarra compared to Fidel Castro. Castro had him killed becuase he knew the people believed in him and that he could become a threat. Che's system of communism was for the people and would have been a great blessing, Fidel used communism to hold onto power.

Niether will ever work becuase power corrupts. Which is sad becuase its the people that suffer.


I think you hit the nail on the head.
Quote by Article
She pulled off his left testicle and tried to swallow it, before spitting it out. A friend handed it back to Mr Jones saying "That's yours"

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#36
Quote by SlinkyBlue
They aren't. They WERE, both of them are now returning to socialism.



Not from what I read and see on TV. China is definitely moving towards a capitalistic society.
#37
Quote by PaperStSoapCo
That was Communism. Not the same thing. And I think I read somewhere that after the wall fell, the standard of living in Russia dropped significantly.


Oh please don't call Russia, China or Cuba communist. It's a rooky mistake - but it burns the eyes
#38
Quote by Supertait
I agree with some of that, especially the parts about lack of self motivation and the benefits of a free market. But what you say about taxation is not true, I pay no more tax each month here than I did when I lived in Italy or my home country of the UK. I'm not sure about the States, but European tax is not excessive when you see the quality of the services that are provided. (at least in my experience)

IM not sure of your monetary status, but i think the taxes are pretty bad on the rich
and of course, that sounds like it should work
the only problem is that rich people start businesses
and businesses employ people, thus providing them with the ability to survive on their own, plus it increases your Gross Domestic Product
People don't need hand-outs, or at least self-reliant people don't, they need opportunity, which can be provided by private industry
and yes, business can get out of control, which is why the government should supervise, but not regulate
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#39
Socialism is no bueno because any attempt to create an egalitarian society is, for lack of a better word, stupid. People are just not the same and never will be. A social hierarchy is fundamental to the human existance. Also, I find it very difficult to comprehend how anybody who has read 1984 could condone any from of totalitarian government.
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#40
Quote by PaperStSoapCo
I searched and didn't come up with anything.

With the word being thrown around and used in a spooky way to try and scare dumb Americans who still haven't gotten over the Cold War, I figured I'd ask UG about their thoughts on Socialism (keeping in mind that is doesn't = Communism). Plus, I think the definition gets pretty skewed, so maybe some healthy discussion will help clear up any confusion.

My thoughts: As long as it is still a democratic society, I see nothing wrong with it... but I'm not very familiar with Socialism. It is a very broad topic and a philosophy that is a bit hard to grasp by just reading about it, so I think a discussion will be helpful for my own understanding. All I know is that their are democratic socialist countries in Europe who seem to be doing very well for themselves (as far as having a healthy, peaceful and prosperous society... from what I hear).

So... discuss.

And if I am wrong about anything I said thus far, feel free to correct me.



Socialism is the same as communism except Communism has a single party Government. It's unfair because it insists upon Government ownership of property, the regulation of Property ownership and Government owned business. Its against the rights to Life, Liberty, and Property. Socialism is wrong because it infringes upon a persons right to liberty and propery. But now in modern times every Government is Socialist and you see how bad things are now, Big Government which is practically Socialism, causes far more problems than it can even think about solving.