#1
okay guys, so my teacher and i were going over some modal stuff, and he started talking about creating chords, for specific modes. like a "c-lydian" chord. so he made me construct a triad with C-E-G, and then he asked me what made lydian, sound like "lydian". sharp four right?... isn't that just another C? i'm confused.

so would a C "lydian" style chord just be the same as a C major chord...with another C?

also:

he was talking about things that made modes sound specifically like that mode...but alot of modes share the same things like flat 2, 3, 7... how do i know which ones make that mode sound special?
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#3
in a C major chord a #4 wouldnt be a C.
it would be a G#.
and when they say *insert mode* style chord they mean the notes that make that mode different.

for example: a "locrian style" chord would probably be a diminished chord.
a "dorian style" chord woulf be a minor chord with a natural 6.
or a "mixolydian style" chord they mean a major chord with a b7. (dominant 7th chord if you didnt know).

i think thats what they mean when they say that, i could be wrong though.
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#4
The notes that make the mode special are the ones that differ from the parent scale, which will be either major or minor. For example, the Lydian mode is exactly the same as the major scale, except that the fourth note is raised a half step. Phrygian is the same as natural minor except that it has a flatted second degree.

As for the chord thing, I have no idea what your talking about. There is nothing Lydian about C-E-G without the right context, it's just a C major chord.
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#6
Quote by DiminishedFifth
It's actually an F# in C Major. G is the 5th... not the 4th.

yes, my mistake.
for some reason i thought lydian had a #5 instead of a #4.
your right, my fault


but you understood about all the other stuff right?
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#7
Think of the Ionian and Aeolian as the "ordinary" sounding modes. Then the Lydian and Mixolydian (the other major modes) are one note alterations of the Ionian, while the Dorian and Phrygian (the other minor modes) are one note alterations of the Aeolian. In each case the note they differ by is the one that defines that modes sound. With the Lydian, it is, as said, the sharpened 4th, in this case F#.
#8
so a C lydian style chord would be C-E-G-G#?


EDIT: F#?


i'm guessing he made me do this as an excersise so i could learn what makes a certain mode...different than the others, while also working on my chord construction theory.
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Last edited by bobby_splax at Jan 21, 2009,
#9
Quote by bobby_splax
so a C lydian style chord would be C-E-G-G#?


No. The C chord of C Major is composed of the 1st degree of the scale, C, the 3rd, E, and the 5th, G. None of those are the 4th, F, so that chord stays the same. A lydian "style" chord, would the the II chord, D-F#-A. Normally the second chord of a major scale is minor, now in Lydian it is Major because the #4.

Make sense?
#10
i believe so. thanks for clearing that up guys.
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#11
just think of the modes, as a scale, starting on a different note.

(in other words)
C Ionian (C-C no sharps no flats)
D Dorian (D-D no sharps or flats)
E Phyrigian (E-E, no sharps or flats)
F Lydian (F-F no sharps or flats)
G Mixolydian (G-G no sharps or flats)
A Aeolian (A-A no sharps or flats)
B Locrian (B-B no sharps or flats)


i believe this is the simpliest way to learn modes, i tried before to learn them the way described by "The Alchemical Guitarist" Column in guitar world. He basically described all the modes as (assuming were in C) the C major scale with altered notes, (Mixolydian had a flat 7th i believe). and i found this confusing, and only applicable on guitar, while thinking of the modes as just a scale starting on different notes, is applicable to other instruments and music theory in general.

hope this helps.
#12
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#13
Quote by Guitar x Dude 7
just think of the modes, as a scale, starting on a different note.

(in other words)
C Ionian (C-C no sharps no flats)
D Dorian (D-D no sharps or flats)
E Phyrigian (E-E, no sharps or flats)
F Lydian (F-F no sharps or flats)
G Mixolydian (G-G no sharps or flats)
A Aeolian (A-A no sharps or flats)
B Locrian (B-B no sharps or flats)


i believe this is the simpliest way to learn modes, i tried before to learn them the way described by "The Alchemical Guitarist" Column in guitar world. He basically described all the modes as (assuming were in C) the C major scale with altered notes, (Mixolydian had a flat 7th i believe). and i found this confusing, and only applicable on guitar, while thinking of the modes as just a scale starting on different notes, is applicable to other instruments and music theory in general.

hope this helps.

Not really, mainly because that's not what modes are - a mode is defined by the pattern of intervals and the tonal centre, "where you start" has nothing to do with it. Also, all your method does is help you with the relative modes of C major, it has no relevance to any of the other major scales.
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#14
Quote by steven seagull
Not really, mainly because that's not what modes are - a mode is defined by the pattern of intervals and the tonal centre, "where you start" has nothing to do with it. Also, all your method does is help you with the relative modes of C major, it has no relevance to any of the other major scales.


This. Plus i think you should learn your circle of fifths. Then you can figure out how to apply modes to anything a bit easier.

EDIT: Although this thread could have been answered with the words: The context it's used in.
Last edited by Ikonoklast at Jan 22, 2009,
#15
Quote by steven seagull
Not really, mainly because that's not what modes are - a mode is defined by the pattern of intervals and the tonal centre, "where you start" has nothing to do with it. Also, all your method does is help you with the relative modes of C major, it has no relevance to any of the other major scales.



well i assumed that he would transpose it on his own,

so for G major,
G Ionian (G-G with F#)
A Dorian (A-A with F#)
B Phyrigian (B-B, with F#)
so on and so forth...
#16
ATTENTION: If you have to start a topic asking about modes, you need to: 1) read the sticky. 2) stop worrying about modes. You'll understand them when you understand everything that comes before them theory-wise. Because you obviously aren't ready for them.

EDIT: Also, modes are not shapes. Modes are not scales starting on a different pitch. Modes are ways of creating interesting sounding music, WITH A MODAL BACKGROUND. You can play "mode shapes" all you want, but 9/10 times, you're just playing the major scale at a different location on the neck.
Last edited by timeconsumer09 at Jan 23, 2009,
#17
a quick point, although i know this belongs in the sticky...

modes don't really have any practical application in terms of applying them to chord construction. you can alter chords in ways that are coincidentally modal, but as soon as you start trying to make a progression, you will be met with modal limitations and harsh dissonance.