#1
c4c.


Retrieve Ehud's dagger from
it's resting place;
and we'll stick it to a plaque and
place it in a little hut on Mt. Vesuvius.
We'll piece together a shrine
for the downtrodden and hold a
weekly mass.
We'll all bring the jawbone of an ass
to bless each other with
as we whisper great tales of a messiah
to deliver us from our crippled lives.

In the meantime;
we'll watch Charlton Heston part
the waters and lead God's little failures
out of Egypt; and pray that spewing ash
won't caramelize our bodies before
we fulfill at least our
minimum potential.
#2
I didn't like this at all. It read like a religious stab, but instead, it just called gods people worthless, and didn't even do a good job of that. The first stanza was just a mush of religious references and name calling. Not one bit of negativity is devoted to the worship itself.

Maybe (probably) I'm missing the point, but this is what I got from it. Sorry for being such a douche bag.
#4
Edit : Ben , try at least to get something out of it. You can read better than that.


no, no, no. you could get there, but you don't. Still, you got so fucking close here. you keep on using the useless harsh language, a less-than needed "usual ****-ups" here, that contrasts in tone with everything else here, especially the second stanza. And even looking into it as far as I can, reading it over, I can't find a justification for that. actually, I'll tear this to pieces.
Quote by ZanasCross
c4c.


Retrieve Ehud's dagger from it's
final resting place; <final resting place is bad wording. "final" is kind of implied, or at least, badly used. Going without it would be my suggestion, but if you absolutely want something here, say "eternal" or some shit like that.
and we'll stick it to a plaque and
place it in a little hut on Mt. Vesuvius.
I thought that was way too wordy. stick it to something place it in something on something. I don't know all of Elud's tale, only that he tricked Eglon, king of Moab (I believe? from what I fond) and to kill him with said dagger. Why Mt.Vesuvius? Couldn't find any connection.
We'll piece together a shrine for
useful fuck-ups and hold
a weekly mass.
no, no, no, this is where it all stumbled down. You make biblical references, and then switch to harsh language. It just doesn't fit. I like what you say here, let that be said, but you can say this without sounding like an angry punk-rock girl in her mid-teens.
We'll all bring the jawbone of an ass
to bless each other with as
we whisper great tales of a messiah
to deliver us from our crippled lives.
That was great, but "ass" ruined it again. There are other ways to say this. I think your imagery is strong enough to let it do the irony. They can see the funny side of it even if you use more accurate language. "ass" in itself ain't funny. change that, the image is worth being kept and well provided. Let me say that apart those major complaints, I found that to be brilliant.

In the meantime;
we'll watch Charlton Heston part
the waters and lead God's little failures
out of Egypt; and pray that spewing ash
won't caramelize our bodies before
we fulfill at least our
minimum potential.
Here. Here. This is where you need to go Zach. This is your true potential. Great political piece, the irony is hard hitting.


Using Elud here is brilliant. I don't know how you found that whole idea, but the comparison is well worth a piece like this. I'm amazed by what you achieved here, the statement, the irony, exactly what i thought you tried to do for weeks and weeks.

I have a few major complains that kept me from enjoying this piece. but they can easily be fixed. Looking over it, I can also appreciate the work behind this one. I hated this for some mentioned reasons, but I salute your tremendous work.

Fix it and I'll love it to it's core.

edit : to sum this up, don't be afraid to let your story do the talking. I know some people won't put the effort to look into it (no harsh feelings ben), but when you develop a story complex enough like this one, you have to trust your reader. Some people will truly appreciate it more.

edit 2 : I also tried to talk about this piece without spoiling it all for other readers. if you want to get back to me, harmonica could use your opinion.

edit 3 v regarding your reply :
fair enough. Of course handicaps ain't the best. just "blow-ups" instead of ****-ups would have turned it down a little imo. good job again.
Last edited by circular.parade at Jan 24, 2009,
#5
Thanks Mat. Dropped the **** for you... dunno if I like the replacement; but it will do until tomorrow. Mt. Vesuvius (in Greek lore) was a mountain of terrible luck; even before the whole spewing ash incident... it was considered to be a place of considerable fame for ruining lives and cursing those who live near it. Ass is a direct reference to the story of Sampson killing men with the jawbone of a donkey. Taking it directly from the bible. Also, see your point on wordy... but I want that to be a bit of a stumbling block. It's such a turning point in the direction of the piece; that I want it to capture a huge image; without shortening it into something "easily manageable."
#6
I dig this, its really well written and I've always like the way you throw random bits of humor into serious-like pieces.
I can't pull much out of it meaning wise probably because I just woke up.
I'll try to get back at you with a full crit some point today.
this one is for you.
#9
I have mixed feelings about this piece. From a technical standpoint, I thought it was really good. You used line breaks very effectively, and I liked a lot of the word choices. In a few places, especially the first stanza, the flow was a little awkward, but that's easily fixed. However, conceptually it didn't impress me. Trying not to allow my own feelings about religion to get in the way, I thought you got stuck on this one idea of "people who are religious are missing something and using religion to fill that hole" or, more bluntly, "religion is for losers". You didn't use the idea in a witty way, which overall would have made it a lot more palatable; instead, this seemed tinged with contempt. Now that in and of itself is only a small problem. What really got me was that you didn't go anywhere. It's just... your feelings about religious people, which you share with tons of others. You just express them using better words.
#10
Quote by ZanasCross
c4c.


Retrieve Ehud's dagger from it's
resting place;
and we'll stick it to a plaque and
place it in a little hut on Mt. Vesuvius.
We'll piece together a shrine for
the downtrodden and hold
a weekly mass.
We'll all bring the jawbone of an ass
to bless each other with
as we whisper great tales of a messiah
to deliver us from our crippled lives.

I was fond of your biblical allusions here; they were refreshing to say the very least. But what lets this down a bit (I believe this was mentioned previously) was the lack flow. I think flow is the key here-In order to maintain your verbose without sounding astute or over-bearing. But I did enjoy this, very much.

In the meantime;
we'll watch Charlton Heston part
the waters and lead God's little failures
out of Egypt; and pray that spewing ash
won't caramelize our bodies before
we fulfill at least our
minimum potential.

This stanza, as a whole, didn't fulfill much impact; it felt quite bland and unsatisfactory (you should note that I'm saying this because you created such tension and momentum with the previous stanza that I was left quite disappointed). No real void was filled in terms of concept; it felt quite complacent, to be honest. You should probably work on this stanza further (maybe even add another stanza to truly let this story unfold as I read on).


I haven't read you in a while due to lack of Computer, so you know, but this was a great read. Keep writing mate, you are still improving.
#11
Thanks guys.

Hesh; this really has nothing to do with "making fun of religious people." I guess it's just not coming across. Ehud is a biblical reference; but if you learn that story a little more deeply... that should clear things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehud . Ehud spent most of his life being scorned for being left-handed; they've even found letters showing his father wanted to kill him for being an embarrassment, but in the end being an outcast is what allowed for him to complete his task.
#12
It's... good Zach.
It's good, Zach.
It's good Zach.
There's only one thing we can do to thwart the plot of these albino shape-shifting lizard BITCHES!
#13
cant believe i havent commented on this yet - thought i had.

Retrieve Ehud's dagger from it's
resting place;

id prefer the line break before it's

place it in a little hut on Mt. Vesuvius.
so wordy its nasty

We'll piece together a shrine for
the downtrodden and hold
a weekly mass.

didnt like the flow here, the enjambemnt felt awkward - quite in contrast to the beginninsg. eg, line break beofre "for", nto after, after "a" not before, for example for example.

we'll watch Charlton Heston part
the waters and lead God's little failures

linme brekea before part not after?

won't caramelize our bodies before
dont like that word, felt too technicall in compaison with the rest, and too ploysylabic compared to the rest of tlh ewine/

edit@soryr
Last edited by ginjaninja at Jan 25, 2009,
#14
I find it sad how this gets over the head of every one.
Anybody found a message here? doesn't any of the name rings a bell to anyone?

The only guess about what this could be about is religion bashing, which ain't exactly the case. I'm not a fan of Zach's writing usually, but I thought this is definitely in the right way for him, but why even bother writing like that if people won't try and look into it?

sigh
#15
Well I read that story about ehud.
Definitely gives a different meaning to the piece. Looking back at it, you really are expressing a complex idea well. I rescind what I said about your ideas. This is much, much better than your previous pieces and I like it lots.
Last edited by Hesh at Jan 26, 2009,
#16
- "and we'll stick it to a plaque and"
- I find the way this is written to be irritating. Every time I read it, I read it like this: and we'll stick it in a plague It's just very annoying.

I guess the way I need to view this is to be very open. In case I piss people off by not "getting this", I'm just going to view this in anyway that I see fit.
I take this like you are pointing out how some people are misjudged and quickly put into a severe bracket of debauchery, and are punished with seriousness.
Now, I don't see any religious bashing in this. I just see you using religion as a metaphor to explain how, even in modern times, that people are judged harshly and with little care. I think you wanted to show the fraudulent methods of severe punishment; you wanted to show the divide between who knows what is wrong and what is right. Who knows that? God? You ask that question, you don't force the answer on me.
Now, there is a niggling feeling that that is way off the ball. But otherwise, I don't get this. But, I'm renowned for that. I never could understand poetry in school, and I still can't properly. I guess that reflects into my own shit.
I didn't dislike this, I did like it. But, it didn't feel like it was written with enough clarity or beauty. No emotion of a humanly kind; a really insecure, effortlessly gritty sort of emotion.
There is a certain feel of insecurity with this - as is the case with a lot of your pieces - I still don't really believe that you firmly know what you talking about and that you even care that much. I still love to see the more, detailed, Zach. Not the outside, kind of, forced, intelligent one.
But that's just me. I never cared for pieces like this. It's just me. Some people love it.
I'm not one to talk and I'm in a lower league of writing than a lot of people here, but I can give my opinion: I think you need to either grow out of this way or writing, or make this style more secure and provocative. More intense and believable. I want to see you inside the piece - but then again, who am I to judge, I don't really know you that well.
Personally, I would like you to stick with this, just make it more passionate.

I appreciate the comment you left on my piece. I've actually ditched that (once again) and re-wrote a new piece for the song the band recorded.

Digitally Clean