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#81
Ok, I'm a little flustered at the moment. I plan on releasing a "demo" in the near future. On it, I plan to include 1 studio cover (The original Super Mario Underground Theme) and 2 live covers (2 RATM songs). What do I need to do to be able to put them on my demo? If I'm putting them out for free, do I actually need to do anything? What if I want to sell?

I realize there was a whole post on it, and believe me, I read it. I'm just still a bit confused.

-Thanks.
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#82
How can you still be confused?

You need a mechanical license. Contact your country's Performing Rights Organization. Going rate is about 8 cents per copy made, whether you sell them or give them away.

There is a minimum licence, typically, for 500 copies, so that would be about $40. This prevents you from paying $0.08 to make "one copy" or anything. It also makes the process of the paperwork actually worth the effort.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#83
Quote by axemanchris
How can you still be confused?

You need a mechanical license. Contact your country's Performing Rights Organization. Going rate is about 8 cents per copy made, whether you sell them or give them away.

There is a minimum licence, typically, for 500 copies, so that would be about $40. This prevents you from paying $0.08 to make "one copy" or anything. It also makes the process of the paperwork actually worth the effort.

CT

Ok....I'm an idiot. Is the 500 related to the amount of CDs/Digital Downloads I have? I mean, why would I have to pay anything? I'm pretty much giving my stuff away for free.

Also, I'm not exactly sure what I have to do to get a license. Is the license per song or per person/band?
Gear:
ZT Lunchbox Amp
Schecter C-1+ Diamond Series
Dunlop Cry Baby Wah
Boss DD-7 Digital Delay
Digitech Whammy
EHX Big Muff Pi w/ Tone Wicker
EHX Pocket Metal Muff
EHX Small Stone
EHX Memory Toy
EHX Holy Grail
Boss RC-20XL Loop Station
#84
The 500 copies represents a standard minimum licence. It's $40. That prevents a person from saying "I'm going to make ten copies, so here's a cheque for $0.80." It's not worth the paperwork for you, your bank, the performance rights organization, the recipient, or their bank.

Now, if you make more than 500 copies, you pay for more than 500 copies. Make 600 copies and you pay $48.

Why do you have to pay anything? Because you want to use something that somebody else owns. They are entitled to be compensated for their work and product. It doesn't change anything that you are giving them away for free. They created something and you want to use it. It doesn't matter *how* you want to use it. It matters that you *do* want to use it. If you don't want to use someone else's stuff, then make your own.

I might note, though, that AFAIK, the entire industry looks the other way for cover bands who make live demos and who use that demo to secure gigs. There is a small number of copies made (relatively) and they are not being made widely available - only to talent buyers. That is measurably different from a cover band who makes a demo to give to all their fans and friends which is a considerably more open use.

To get a licence, contact your country's Mechanical Licencing organization (I wrongly said performance rights organization in my above post).

CMRRA in Canada: http://www.cmrra.ca/Mechanical_Licensing/mechanical_licensing.html

Harry Fox Agency in USA: http://www.harryfox.com/index.jsp

PRS for Music in the UK: http://www.prsformusic.com

..... or wherever else you happen to be, you'll have to look it up....

The mechanical licence you pay is per song. So, if you want to release a cover album with ten songs and make 1000 copies, you would pay $0.08 x 10 x 1000 = $800. The websites there should tell you everything else you need to know.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#85
So, I have a question relating to band names... apparently a band some of our other members are also in scored a magazine interview, but were told they had to take the "s" off the end of their name because there was a photography company by the same name. Then they came back worried about our name... does this make any sense?

I have read what's in this thread, but I just want to clarify...
#86
First of all, the magazine has no jurisdiction over what anyone calls their band.

Second, just because you're a journalist of some description for a magazine doesn't mean that you have any inkling about business or entertainment law.

(mind you, you could also levy the same argument at me... just because I'm a teacher doesn't mean I have any inkling either....)

Let's say you have a band called Shutters. There is also a photography company called Shutters. I don't see a problem with that. It's not like anyone is going to go into the Shutters store and look for the new Shutters CD. It's not like anyone is going to show up at a club and ask one of the guys in the band about the advantages of larger apertures in SLR photography. If there is no potential confusion or mis-association, generally, there is no problem.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#87
Hey, I read your post on bands using the same name and had some questions I hope you could answer. How do you decide whether a band is 'big' enough to not use the same name? I ask because my band recently decided upon a name only to find that it used to belong to a band that was only active between 1993-1994 and released one album.

However, they have had compilations CDs released as recent as 2006 and have 22,128 listeners on Last.Fm, which I'm guessing puts them as big enough not to use their name. And from what I've gathered simply plurasing their name or something similar is not enough?

Thanks for your time btw, I really appreciate the stuff you've already written

EDIT: A search of Last.fm also reveals a very little known 70's hard rock psychedelia band with 68 listeners of the same name and other smaller bands with names adding 'The' or 'An' on the front. Searching iTunes shows an Indian band with the same name. *sigh*
Quote by Kozlic
Music doesnt need to be quality to be good.


Press eject, give me the tape, if you know what's good for you
Last edited by Forkman at Jun 20, 2010,
#88
It comes down to whether they do business in the same market. Now, to get a handle on where this comes from, let's pretend (just for a moment) that the internet doesn't exist.

You have a cover band called The Rockers in New York. You have another one in Los Angeles. Is a cover band, realistically, *ever* going to go across North America to play any gigs? No. In fact, you could have one in Los Angeles and in San Diego (what... maybe a 6 hour drive?) and have reasonable grounds to suggest that neither of them do business in the other's market.

But what about an original band? Well, it gets a *little* more complicated. Is it likely that the original band from New York will go on tour and do business in the LA market? It's quite possible. But are they? (because whether they *are* or not is what matters) If they are, then that band is "big enough." Even if they have only played a couple of shows there and have 175 hits on their Myspace and sold 5 CD's.... they could still have a valid argument that they are doing business there. And if they are... then you can't, under the same name. On the other end of the spectrum, they may have a distribution deal with Universal that puts them into stores all over the country, in which case, even if they haven't sold *any* in that city, they could lay claim to the fact that they are doing business in that market under that name.

Now.... back to reality and taking into consideration the existence of the WWW. Ultimately, it comes down to whether or not they *are* doing business there, or can make a reasonable claim that they are, should they choose to call you on it.

For example, you can go on line anywhere in the world and buy my band's CD from our website. We have shipped CD's outside of Canada. We shipped one to New Jersey, for instance. However, can you really suggest that we are doing business in the New Jersey market, considering that:
-we've never played there
-we don't have any shows lined up there
-we have sold only one CD there

I think if someone wanted to use our name there, and it got challenged in court that one of us was interfering with the other's market, we would find the losing end of that one.

So, in short, it's not so much whether they are "big enough" as much as it is, "are they doing business in my market?" and "will our markets conceivably overlap at some point?"

Couple of examples:

The Raconteurs had to change their name to the Saboteurs for the Australian market. There was already a jazz (I think) combo under that name. AFAIK, they were also a pretty localized band within Australia, but it would be easier for the Raconteurs to market themselves to an Australian market as the Saboteurs, than it would be for them to be known all over Australia as the Raconteurs - except in, say, Melbourne where they are known as the Saboteurs.

Bush had to be marketed in North America (maybe just Canada?) as Bush X because there was a band already called Bush in Canada. Nobody knew who they were. It's not like they were "big enough" to make Bush X have to use their alternate name. It only mattered that they were doing business here.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#89
Thanks for your help
Quote by Kozlic
Music doesnt need to be quality to be good.


Press eject, give me the tape, if you know what's good for you
#90
No prob.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#91
Hey guys. I found this free copyright site online called myows.com
Does anyone know anything about it?
UG's AC/DC Lover
#92
Hi Axeman,

So I made up a country song, which turned out to be the same melody and chords of another country song. It got me thinking that a lot of country songs actually sound alike, and that you could trace all the popular melodies back to a set of 5-10 songs written around 50 years ago. There would be a similar situation with blues songs I imagine.

Anyways, what's your opinion on copyright entitlements in this situation? The best possible situation if there was some mass lawsuit thing going on is if it was all traced back to one song which had entered the public domain and was no longer covered by copyright. But what if it wasn't?

Perhaps the correct answer is "nobody in the country scene would dare sue eachother, as it would just start a war", but still interesting to think about.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#93
Interesting...though perhaps a pretty narrow view of country music.

However, as a possible precedent, the estate of Robert Johnson tried suing Zeppelin a number of years ago. I can't remember how it worked out, though.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#94
I'm pretty sure riffs can be copyrighted but only if they're pretty specific. Like, you could copyright Black Dog, but not something that's more of a chord progression like Wild Thing.


Can anyone help me with the CO form for copyright? If I have an EP, and I'm writing the name of the work, is it correct to have a box for each song and have one last box at the end that says "Contained in the album [insert album name here]"?
#95
can you post a scan of it? It sounds right, but a "work" could be a single song or could be an album. Depending on how the form is laid out, it could suggest that each individual song needs to be done, regardless of whether it is an EP or an album or whatever else.

And in the end... you are copyrighting your songs, not the album.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#96
Quote by ironmanben
I'm pretty sure riffs can be copyrighted but only if they're pretty specific. Like, you could copyright Black Dog,


I would be inclined to agree. Based on the nature of that riff, I would describe that as "melodically significant." It is a very identifiable four-bar melody contained within the song.

Quote by ironmanben

but not something that's more of a chord progression like Wild Thing.


And that's a good choice for a comparison for something not melodically significant.

In the end, that's what it comes down to... is it melodically or lyrically identifiable and significant?

The further into the grey area you wander, the more likely it is to be decided by a jury.

It's just that too many people come up with some "riff" along the lines of Symphony of Destruction or, hell, even Smoke on the Water and think they have something copyright-able.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#97
Quote by axemanchris
It sounds right, but a "work" could be a single song or could be an album. Depending on how the form is laid out, it could suggest that each individual song needs to be done, regardless of whether it is an EP or an album or whatever else.

And in the end... you are copyrighting your songs, not the album.

CT

Let's see if I can make it clearer...

So if you're trying to copyright your demo, you have form CO, and you have section 1, the type of work is a "sound recording",
and then you have the spaces below...

would it be correct to have:
Space 1 - [Insert song title here]
Space 2 - [Insert song title here]
Space 3 - [Insert song title here]
Space 4 - [Insert song title here]
Space 5 - [Insert song title here]
Space 6 - [contained within the album "[insert album title here]"

???
#98
Quote by axemanchris
can you post a scan of it? It sounds right, but a "work" could be a single song or could be an album.


Context is everything.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#99
Dude you just made my day I need all of this for an assignment
* If my punctuation seems off, it's because my shift button is broken *
#100
I'm glad people are finding it useful.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#101
I rarely read a thread from beginning to end, but I did this one. Thank you so much for this.
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#102
Hey fellow Axeman...thanks for the work on this thread. I've read it a few times as my cover band is getting more gigs now.

We have some festival dates coming up, and one asked if we had our ASCAP license. Is it common for festivals to put the license honus on the bands? Also, any idea on how much a license to allow us to play covers would run? (guessing it will have to do with number and size of performances maybe)

Thank you sir
#103
That's *weird.*

I mean, really... it's a festival. They can get *one* license, or they can book, what, twenty bands and have them *each* get a license? That's stupid.

What festival is this? Is it an established entity?

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#104
I though it was strange also. It's a smallish city in Illinois, and this is the second year they've had a fall festival with bands playing.

I'll certainly keep up with them. Should a cover type band ever consider getting a license?
#105
Generally, no. As I say, most venues that most cover bands play at are already obliged to purchase this licence. No point in purchasing something yourself if your employer has already paid for it.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#106
How does copyrighting with a alias work?

It mainly concerns me to use a alias because if I actually do go out and make a record deal, and it doesn't work out I don't want to end up trying to find a job and my degree being worthless because in my background check my attempt at a music career popped up.

Mainly because a lot of stuff I have written to myself so far is very dark and not really mainstream friendly.

Anyways, if I where to copyright it under a alias would someone else be able to assume that alias and steal it, or would I still have to give info that can be linked back to me out or what?
Last edited by zomgguitarz1234 at Oct 23, 2011,
#107
To do it under an alias, you would essentially be gifting it to someone who does not exist, and you would later possibly be forced to prove that you are that person who does not exist. How would you do that?

However.....

A business can own assets, and a copyright is an asset.

So, you could register it as © Zom Music, 2011

You'd just need to register your business name under your own name.


CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#108
Quote by axemanchris
To do it under an alias, you would essentially be gifting it to someone who does not exist, and you would later possibly be forced to prove that you are that person who does not exist. How would you do that?

However.....

A business can own assets, and a copyright is an asset.

So, you could register it as © Zom Music, 2011

You'd just need to register your business name under your own name.


CT


So I could register it under my band name. Where would I register it as a business?
#109
Typically, business licences are issued by the city/municipality.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#110
Can I record a cover of a classical song like Fur Elise by Beethoven, use it on my album and sell it on itunes and such without the trouble of copyright?


Thanks,
#111
You'd have to take it on a title-by-title basis. It comes down to what country you are in, and who the composer is. In order for a composition to be in the public domain, it will be between 50-80 years after the composer's death, depending on where you are.

Some "classical" composers haven't been dead that long, though. Stravinski's work, for instance, will not be public domain for a while yet in most countries.

Be careful, too, in that an arrangement is also copyrightable. If you took Fur Elise from, say, a Mel Bay method book and recorded it, you'd not likely be violating the copyright of the composition, but would likely be violating the copyright of the arrangement. Best bet: go to the original composition and create your own arrangement.

Once all that is taken care of, then I believe, yes, you could sell it wherever you wanted.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#112
Quote by axemanchris
You'd have to take it on a title-by-title basis. It comes down to what country you are in, and who the composer is. In order for a composition to be in the public domain, it will be between 50-80 years after the composer's death, depending on where you are.

Some "classical" composers haven't been dead that long, though. Stravinski's work, for instance, will not be public domain for a while yet in most countries.

Be careful, too, in that an arrangement is also copyrightable. If you took Fur Elise from, say, a Mel Bay method book and recorded it, you'd not likely be violating the copyright of the composition, but would likely be violating the copyright of the arrangement. Best bet: go to the original composition and create your own arrangement.

Once all that is taken care of, then I believe, yes, you could sell it wherever you wanted.

CT


Got it. Thanks.
#113
I got another question:

If you copyright a song and then make some changes to it (such as demo'ing it on youtube, then recording a full version that has a few more changes like different notes or just longer or something) does the copyright cover those changes?
#114
As long as the changes do not drastically affect the song to the extent the two versions would never be confused, the copyright will cover all versions of that song. Consider that if your favourite band records a cover, they still have to credit the original artists.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#115
What's the go with naming your band after a fictional character from a movie/book etc? Just curious because I've heard of bands such as Lucas Brassi (a character from the Godfather) and I've wondered whether they're infringing on copyright?
Quote by Kozlic
Music doesnt need to be quality to be good.


Press eject, give me the tape, if you know what's good for you
#116
Hello, i think i have some questions.

Im mexican but currently live in USA. I was reading about registering works in mexico and found it cost only about $15 dollars to register a work under your name. They also have a clause if your work is based on someone's else work.
Works registered in Mexico are protected in all countries that signed the 'Berne convention, 'Roma Convention' and the OMPI.
Would it be the 'same' to register my works in mexico than if i register them in the USA?

I also have questions about the arrangements things and public domain.

Lets say I write a song, and in the solo or any other part of it I play parts of a classical song such as something written by Paganini? -- I believe his music is public domain just because he lived very long ago. Can I just get away with it without problems?

Now, same question, but a newer song, lets say something made by Black Sabbath, and I start a solo in my song and it begins with the same notes Iommi did a solo, but then my solo gets completely different. Am I breaking copyrights?

As for arrangements i think i understood that i can make my own arrangements(cant use others) of public domain music(very old classical music?), right?
But lets say I make a arrangement of contemporary music(more specific , japanese, videogames and mexican music), can i go away with it and have no problem registering and playing MY arrangements?

And another one for band names, similar to Forkman's.
Lets say I have a musical project with a name based from an anime character. The name of my project is only the character's last name, and that word is also a kind of tank in japanese. The name is clearly a reference to her, would I have any problems with it?
That anime is quite popular all over the world and im pretty sure it is licensed in other countries other than japan.

Thats all i think. Thank!
Sorry if my english is wrong .
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#119
Hola Yami,

Quote by YamiFrankc
Would it be the 'same' to register my works in mexico than if i register them in the USA?


Probably, but it would be a good idea to find out from an official source.

Lets say I write a song, and in the solo or any other part of it I play parts of a classical song such as something written by Paganini? -- I believe his music is public domain just because he lived very long ago. Can I just get away with it without problems?


As Chris said above-thread, not all "old" music is in the public domain. You need to find out whether each specific piece that you want to use, is.

Now, same question, but a newer song, lets say something made by Black Sabbath, and I start a solo in my song and it begins with the same notes Iommi did a solo, but then my solo gets completely different. Am I breaking copyrights?


I don't know the exact law or the exact number of notes, but I believe that in order for a melody to be considered in violation of copyright, a certain number of notes must be the same as the melody they're copying. So if your melody is in eighths and the first two notes are A B, and some other guy starts his eighth-note melody with A B, it's not a copyright violation, but if your melodies share the first, say, seven notes, then it's a violation. Again, you'll need to do some research on this, but I'd probably just make my own distinct melodies rather than worry about what I can "get away" with.

As for arrangements i think i understood that i can make my own arrangements(cant use others) of public domain music(very old classical music?), right?
But lets say I make a arrangement of contemporary music(more specific , japanese, videogames and mexican music), can i go away with it and have no problem registering and playing MY arrangements?


Arrangements are almost always strictly backing chords/rhythms. If your piece has the same melody as another piece, you're in violation. It doesn't matter if they played the melody on a guitar with a full band backup and you played it on a kazoo in cut-time with a washboard rhythm section. The melody's the thing. I'd argue that if your piece was in any way recognizable as the piece you're aping then you're in violation.

And another one for band names, similar to Forkman's.
Lets say I have a musical project with a name based from an anime character. The name of my project is only the character's last name, and that word is also a kind of tank in japanese. The name is clearly a reference to her, would I have any problems with it?
That anime is quite popular all over the world and im pretty sure it is licensed in other countries other than japan.


It depends. You probably won't fall afoul of the anime, given that the word exists in the Japanese language anyway, and even if it's a reference since you're not passing yourself off as that character or that intellectual property it should be okay. That said, Sean "Puffy Diddly Daddy Whateverthe****hecallshimselfnow" Coombs did successfully stop the J-Pop band Puffy from going by that name in the US, which is why they're known as Puffy AmiYumi here... despite the fact that he hasn't gone by Puffy in years.

So, your concern is probably more about whether or not other artists are performing under that name in your target market. That said, Green Jello (the band) had to change their name to Green Jelly because the Jell-O people sued. So, it's not a given.