#1
So i was reading through some of the threads here, and in the "Test Me" thread, there was a question on Plagal Modes, me being the curious person that i am decided to google it, but there isn't really anything solid and understandable on google. so could someone please explain them and there uses to me in laymans terms.
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Although i guess the OP will have to get used to reading them if he's going to buy a bugera..
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along with fire escape routes...

#2
I know that a plagal cadence is IV - I in either Major or Minor key, but other than that I have no clue what that means.
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#3
Meh, I forgot my cadences... Lemme go through my notes...

Yup, Plagal Cadence is IV - I. It's to sort of end a phrase.

WHHHOOOAA, didn't read properly... have no clue myself
If you play guitar, please don't waste your time in The Pit, and please instead educate yourself in the Musician Talk forum, where you can be missing out on valuable info.
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Last edited by SilverDark at Jan 25, 2009,
#4
i already got that the fourth of a particular scale is the plagal mode. i also got that the name for a plagal mode begins with hypo (hypodorian, hypolydian etc), but beyond that i don't understand them.
Quote by coolstoryangus
Pffffffft schematics


Although i guess the OP will have to get used to reading them if he's going to buy a bugera..
Quote by gregs1020


along with fire escape routes...

#5
Plagal modes are exactly the same as regular modes except they start and end on a different note.

So you might have dorian (I'm going to use modern dorian, I can't remember what ancient dorian is): D E F G A B C, and since pre-baroque music conventions were so strict there are only two notes we can start on.
If we start our melody on D, we would have to resolve on D. This would mean regular (or authentic) dorian.
If we started on A, but resolve on D, this would mean hypodorian.

The plagal mode will always start 5 semitone (or 4 degrees) lower than the authentic mode.

Nowadays, you can start on any (diatonic) note you want, especially when you're using anacrusis. You could even resolve on any note you want if you know how to modulate melodies properly and know how to resolve properly.

Srsly, modes suxzorz for writing music.
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        L.
#6
^ Anacrusis = pick up notes?

Interesting information.
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#7
Quote by ramm_ty
^ Anacrusis = pick up notes?

Interesting information.


Yes, but only at the beginning of a song. Good post demon.
#8
Quote by ramm_ty
^ Anacrusis = pick up notes?

Interesting information.
What are pick up notes?

Anacrusis means you start your melody in the middle of the bar, instead of at the start of the bar. Usually on the second or fourth beat if you're using crotchets (quarter beats) or quavers (eighth beats) or on the third beat if your using minims (half beats).

As it's usually best to transcribe your musical phrases so that they're one and a half bars long, using this method means it's easier to have your phrases finish on strong beats (first beat of the bar).

Otherwise you'd have weak phrases (finishing in the middle of the bar), 2 bar phrases (which is too long) or 1 bar phrases (which is too shory). Non of these are inherently bad for a melody, but it's best to use anacrusis and have one and a half bar phrases.

It's best to finish each individual phrase on strong beats, this is called masculine. Failing that, weak beats (EDIT: third not second beat of the bar) works alright too, this is considered "feminine." Don't blame me, this sexist terminology is older then the internetz.

I think I talk about the one and a half rule in my blogs.


Usually in primitive modal writing, anacrusis is not possible. Anacrusis is best for chordal or polyphonic songs. It's not so great for homophonic or monophonic songs, as anacrusis in this situation would be weird. It'd be like you're still starting on the first beat of the bar but it'd sound like you're resolving on random beats.
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[U]        |/     .-.              [/U]
[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
[U]      //| \      |       |      [/U]
[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
        |
        L.
Last edited by demonofthenight at Jan 25, 2009,
#9
Quote by demonofthenight
What are pick up notes?

Anacrusis means you start your melody in the middle of the bar, instead of at the start of the bar. Usually on the second or fourth beat if you're using crotchets (quarter beats) or quavers (eighth beats) or on the third beat if your using minims (half beats).

As it's usually best to transcribe your musical phrases so that they're one and a half bars long, using this method means it's easier to have your phrases finish on strong beats (first beat of the bar).

Otherwise you'd have weak phrases (finishing in the middle of the bar), 2 bar phrases (which is too long) or 1 bar phrases (which is too shory). Non of these are inherently bad for a melody, but it's best to use anacrusis and have one and a half bar phrases.

It's best to finish each individual phrase on strong beats, this is called masculine. Failing that, weak beats (second beat of the bar) works alright too, this is considered "feminine." Don't blame me, this sexist terminology is older then the internetz.

I think I talk about the one and a half rule in my blogs.


Usually in primitive modal writing, anacrusis is not possible. Anacrusis is best for chordal or polyphonic songs. It's not so great for homophonic or monophonic songs, as anacrusis in this situation would be weird. It'd be like you're still starting on the first beat of the bar but it'd sound like you're resolving on random beats.


Actually, the sexism is the other way round.
If the phrase ends in a weak part of the rhythm (without tonic accent I would suppose, not just weak or strong beats) it is considered masculine, but if it ends in a strong part of the rhythm (tonic accent again I suppose) it is called femenine.

Anacrusis actually works for masculine rhythms, and not femenine rhythms.
In masculine rhythms, the emphasis is made one the first bar (for instance), which could be considered the weak part, so to emphasize it you perform some additional notes beforehand (anacrusis).
In femenine rhythms, since the notes from the first part (weak) serve as additional notes to emphasize the next part, anacrusis is not important.
Actually, this is the only thing I understand about masculine/femenine so don't ask me more (the whole accent, rhythm thing confuses the hell out of me)
#10
Quote by ramm_ty
^ Anacrusis = pick up notes?

Interesting information.

Demonofthenight and Gonzaw have already covered Anacrusises, I just wanted to say that a good example of a song that starts with an Anacrusis is Happy Birthday, it starts on the third beat (its in 4/4 iirc) then the first full bar starts on Birthday.
#11
Quote by 12345abcd3
Demonofthenight and Gonzaw have already covered Anacrusises, I just wanted to say that a good example of a song that starts with an Anacrusis is Happy Birthday, it starts on the third beat (its in 4/4 iirc) then the first full bar starts on Birthday.


I always thought Happy Birthday was in 3/4?

You know, without rests or anything..
#12
Quote by gonzaw
I always thought Happy Birthday was in 3/4?

You know, without rests or anything..

Yeah, I just tried tapping it out and you're right, though it still starts on the third beat.
#13
Quote by gonzaw
Actually, the sexism is the other way round.
If the phrase ends in a weak part of the rhythm (without tonic accent I would suppose, not just weak or strong beats) it is considered masculine, but if it ends in a strong part of the rhythm (tonic accent again I suppose) it is called femenine.

Anacrusis actually works for masculine rhythms, and not femenine rhythms.
In masculine rhythms, the emphasis is made one the first bar (for instance), which could be considered the weak part, so to emphasize it you perform some additional notes beforehand (anacrusis).
In femenine rhythms, since the notes from the first part (weak) serve as additional notes to emphasize the next part, anacrusis is not important.
Actually, this is the only thing I understand about masculine/femenine so don't ask me more (the whole accent, rhythm thing confuses the hell out of me)
Wait, that's what I said. Anacrusis means it's easier to have your phrases end on strong beats.
Cadences can also be classified by their rhythmic position. A "masculine cadence" occurs on a strong position, typically the downbeat of a measure.

Technically, a masculine phrase occurs when the phrase begins on a weak beat and ends on a strong beat. Weak to strong. A feminine phrase is the opposite, starts on a strong beat and ends on a weak beat. Both work well, except imo masculine phrases sound more in your face, more epic, more "greater than life." I know alot of people that would rather write a softer, less obnoxious feminine phrase.

Imo it doesn't really matter if you start on a weak or strong beat. Saying you MUST go from weak to strong seems to be imposing yet another rule you don't really need to follow. I know heaps of jazz standards which have 2 bar phrases, strong to strong phrases.
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[U]        |/     .-.              [/U]
[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
[U]      //| \      |       |      [/U]
[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
        |
        L.
#14
Quote by demonofthenight
Wait, that's what I said. Anacrusis means it's easier to have your phrases end on strong beats.

Technically, a masculine phrase occurs when the phrase begins on a weak beat and ends on a strong beat. Weak to strong. A feminine phrase is the opposite, starts on a strong beat and ends on a weak beat. Both work well, except imo masculine phrases sound more in your face, more epic, more "greater than life." I know alot of people that would rather write a softer, less obnoxious feminine phrase.

Imo it doesn't really matter if you start on a weak or strong beat. Saying you MUST go from weak to strong seems to be imposing yet another rule you don't really need to follow. I know heaps of jazz standards which have 2 bar phrases, strong to strong phrases.


Oh, I thought you said it was the other way round...

I know it isn't necessary, but I think if you go from weak to strong you don't need anacrusis...
#15
Quote by demonofthenight
What are pick up notes?


In red. I understand the concept now, thanks.
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We assume - so we're played
We confide - so we're deceived
We trust - so we're betrayed
Last edited by ramm_ty at Jan 25, 2009,