Page 1 of 3
#1
so i'm trying to decide which guitar i should get, when i actually have enough money... which will hopefully be soon.

anyway.

i'm having troubles deciding against a Alder bodied guitar or a Mahogany bodied guitar.

i have troubles deciding because, i had a mahogany LP over a year ago, and i honestly can't remember what it was like, other than heavy.

and as i have tried a few alder guitars, i, again, don't remember what they sound like.

i know mahogany is known for having a very heavy, low grind.
while alder is known for it's clarity, and defintion.

now the problem is... i want both.

i want the low, thick sound, but the clarity and definition. because i want to have clarity for my techincal parts, and the growl for my chunky stuff.

so...

halp?
Ibanez RG7321
Dean Evo Special 7
Agile AL-2000
ESP LTD VB-300
Peavey Vypyr 30
General of the 7 String/ERG Legion

Quote by Bentheemo
Thats probably some of the best advice I've ever received on here.
#2
Well, my mahogany Les Paul and SG have plenty of clarity and definition. They don't really "growl" but they are typically much warmer/darker etc than alder. If you get a mahogany guitar with a maple top(not a veneer, it's gotta be thick enough to affect the tone), it's really nicely balanced between the two. My SG is a little too dark for me since it's got a solid mahogany body but the LP with the maple top that's thick enough to change the tone, it's really nice.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#3
i think maybe a combination might do some good, a mahogany body with a maple neck or an alder with mahogany neck . also take into account that pickups will bring out different sounds of the guitar, ceramic magnets will bring out different parts than say alnico V
#4
i was thinking the same. because i loved the feel of my LP, and i wanted another one since i sold it. but i was always worried about the clarity problem.

but then again, you don't exactly play tech death, or the same type of music i do...

Quote by guitaringnathan
i think maybe a combination might do some good, a mahogany body with a maple neck or an alder with mahogany neck . also take into account that pickups will bring out different sounds of the guitar, ceramic magnets will bring out different parts than say alnico V


yeah, but pickups can always be changed. i want to make sure i have what i want on something i can't change, like woods, neck construction, and types of bridges and what not.
Ibanez RG7321
Dean Evo Special 7
Agile AL-2000
ESP LTD VB-300
Peavey Vypyr 30
General of the 7 String/ERG Legion

Quote by Bentheemo
Thats probably some of the best advice I've ever received on here.
Last edited by ugmung at Jan 25, 2009,
#5
Alder is usually brighter while mahogany is darker it really depends on what your going for my RG is basswood so it does both fairly well
Ibanez RG7321
Jackson Randy Rhoads V with Floyd Rose
Peavey Valveking 112
Digitech RP70 Guitar Processor
#6
Quote by Lethal Dosage
Alder is usually brighter while mahogany is darker it really depends on what your going for my RG is basswood so it does both fairly well


i was just about to mention that basswood is right in the middle, beat me to it.
i used to be a mod, then i took an arrow in the knee.
#7
Quote by mikeyElite
i was just about to mention that basswood is right in the middle, beat me to it.


my RG is basswood, and i can't stand it.
Ibanez RG7321
Dean Evo Special 7
Agile AL-2000
ESP LTD VB-300
Peavey Vypyr 30
General of the 7 String/ERG Legion

Quote by Bentheemo
Thats probably some of the best advice I've ever received on here.
#8
I find that my basswood RG is brighter than my alder strat. But it might be the pickups. But I would recommend a mahogany body with a maple top and/or maple neck. Maybe even a neck-through maple neck with mahogany sides.
#9
Quote by ugmung
my RG is basswood, and i can't stand it.


really ? what don't you like about it ?
i used to be a mod, then i took an arrow in the knee.
#10
Quote by mikeyElite
really ? what don't you like about it ?


it sounds muddy and lifeless to me.
Ibanez RG7321
Dean Evo Special 7
Agile AL-2000
ESP LTD VB-300
Peavey Vypyr 30
General of the 7 String/ERG Legion

Quote by Bentheemo
Thats probably some of the best advice I've ever received on here.
#11
Quote by ugmung
it sounds muddy and lifeless to me.
could just be the stock pups, but if you find that basswood is too muddy sounding for you i'd probably go for an alder guitar next.
i used to be a mod, then i took an arrow in the knee.
#12
Quote by mikeyElite
could just be the stock pups, but if you find that basswood is too muddy sounding for you i'd probably go for an alder guitar next.


i put an Evo in it. and no dice.

i was thinking of getting this, if i can sell my ibanez.

http://www.rondomusic.com/ps900chrome.html
Ibanez RG7321
Dean Evo Special 7
Agile AL-2000
ESP LTD VB-300
Peavey Vypyr 30
General of the 7 String/ERG Legion

Quote by Bentheemo
Thats probably some of the best advice I've ever received on here.
#13
Quote by ugmung
i know mahogany is known for having a very heavy, low grind.
while alder is known for it's clarity, and defintion.

now the problem is... i want both.


Yeah. And I want a solid gold dick and a lifetime pension fund

I think you want two guitars here.
#14
Quote by ugmung
it sounds muddy and lifeless to me.

The muddiness is probably the pickups, but it does sound lifeless compared to other woods. I think it lacks character. It sounds like a bridge strings, and a nut. Play an alder body and a mahogany body acoustically and you can tell that it's a guitar. Basswood weighs nothing, and it sounds like nothing. I don't think it's bad, it's just different. But it is very clear, almost too clear.
#15
What guitars are they even? There's more to a body's sound than just what wood it's made of - an alder LP will sound very different to an alder Strat for example.

Anyway, if you want the best of both worlds, look at korina. It's almost dead between alder and mahogany in terms of tone and is as clear and defined as tonewoods come. Some cheaper korina is a little bassier and slightly closer to mahogany than alder but decent korina does sit right in between.

There is basswood too as previously mentioned but basswood does only get decent if you are getting something really top-end. It's also very prone to damage.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
#16
If the EVO didn't help add any clarity and it sounds lifeless, the wood may just be resonating poorly. Here's this on resonation, it's actually pretty useful, especially considering that it was written by a guy at Gibson:
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/ProductSpotlight/Tone-Tips/tonetipswoodresonancethe/
Also these explain the tones of woods(this time the Gibson one kind of sucks):
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/Gibson%20Tone%20Tips_%20It%20All%20Start/
http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/options/options_bodywoods.cfm

EDIT: The Korina(limba might get more search results) suggested above is pretty nicely in the middle. Although it's kind of hard to find a cheaper guitar with decent Korina.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
Last edited by mmolteratx at Jan 25, 2009,
#17
Quote by mmolteratx
If the EVO didn't help add any clarity and it sounds lifeless, the wood may just be resonating poorly. Here's this on resonation, it's actually pretty useful, especially considering that it was written by a guy at Gibson:
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/ProductSpotlight/Tone-Tips/tonetipswoodresonancethe/
Also these explain the tones of woods(this time the Gibson one kind of sucks):
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/Gibson%20Tone%20Tips_%20It%20All%20Start/
http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/options/options_bodywoods.cfm

EDIT: The Korina(limba might get more search results) suggested above is pretty nicely in the middle. Although it's kind of hard to find a cheaper guitar with decent Korina.


Yeah since the shavings from it are poisionous correct? I may be thinking of the wrong wood here
Ibanez RG7321
Jackson Randy Rhoads V with Floyd Rose
Peavey Valveking 112
Digitech RP70 Guitar Processor
#18
I personally don't think theres a damn bit of difference in tone because of wood. I would be looking at the pots and cap, maybe some pup magnet adjustment or even a magnet change.
#19
Quote by Sin City Sid
I personally don't think theres a damn bit of difference in tone because of wood. I would be looking at the pots and cap, maybe some pup magnet adjustment or even a magnet change.
While those other things do make a difference to tone, the body and neck woods (and body wood mass) make far more difference. If you can't hear a difference between woods then either you're playing through an unbelievably poor amp or you must suffer from hearing difficulties.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
#20
Quote by MrFlibble
While those other things do make a difference to tone, the body and neck woods (and body wood mass) make far more difference. If you can't hear a difference between woods then either you're playing through an unbelievably poor amp or you must suffer from hearing difficulties.


+1
Wood is the biggest tone factor, behind the amp of course.

Quote by Lethal Dosage
Yeah since the shavings from it are poisionous correct? I may be thinking of the wrong wood here


I'm pretty sure they are. I think that's why the Ibanez Fireman prices are supposed to be so high.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#21
It's a classic argument guys and to me it has been proven that it make no difference. Your tone comes from the pups and pots to the amp. The pups in almost every guitar is mounted on springs. Is there a difference acoustically, you bet, but your not going to hear it in an amp.

I have lots of guitars, including the ones mentioned here and to be honest I can, and have made my basswood fender sound just like my Alder Jackson soloist just by swapping the pups.
#22
Quote by Sin City Sid
It's a classic argument guys and to me it has been proven that it make no difference. Your tone comes from the pups and pots to the amp. The pups in almost every guitar is mounted on springs. Is there a difference acoustically, you bet, but your not going to hear it in an amp.

I have lots of guitars, including the ones mentioned here and to be honest I can, and have made my basswood fender sound just like my Alder Jackson soloist just by swapping the pups.



You don't think that the woods could have an effect on how the string vibrates?


It's not a one way street. String vibration > nut/bridge > body/neck > nut/bridge > string.

I'm sure someone else can elaborate.
#23
Quote by Richo 18


You don't think that the woods could have an effect on how the string vibrates?


It's not a one way street. String vibration > nut/bridge > body/neck > nut/bridge > string.

I'm sure someone else can elaborate.

Bro, I'm not an idiot. I have been playing a very long time. I used to believe the whole tone wood thing, just not anymore.

And BTW its string vibration over pickup, creates electrical signal, sent to amp.
#24
Quote by Sin City Sid
Bro, I'm not an idiot. I have been playing a very long time. I used to believe the whole tone wood thing, just not anymore.

And BTW its string vibration over pickup, creates electrical signal, sent to amp.



Obviously the vibration over the pickup is what is 'picked up' and sent to the amp, but the vibration over the pickup itself is affected by the woods, see previous post.


You seriously think that you're right and the rest of the guitar world is wrong?
#25
By those specs you want, the musicman John Petrucci sig fits perfectly into those wood requests..

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Music-Man-Ball-Family-Reserve-John-Petrucci-6-Electric-Guitar?sku=518578

Wood: Alder with mahogany tone block
So it's pretty much a mix of both, the mahogany runs from the neck join to right around the bridge i think.


Of course it's only if you have that much cash to shell out.
ESP LTD M-100FM Tone Zone (B)/Breed Neck (N) w/ Coil Splits
Fender Electro-Acoustic
Line6 Studio UX2
BOSS DD-6 Digital Delay/DS-1 Distortion Robert Keeley ULTRA Mod
Electro Harmonix Holy Grail Reverb
Dunlop SW-95 Crybaby Slash Wah
#26
Quote by Sin City Sid
and have made my basswood fender sound just like my Alder Jackson soloist just by swapping the pups.
This is the part that really matters and there are two things to consider here:
  • basswood isn't very dissimilar to alder in the first place. Some cheap basswood and alder does sound almost exactly the same anyway and even when you get higher grade alder and basswood, there isn't a huge difference. It's like comparing swamp ash to hard ash.
  • If you're going to go swapping pickups around then yes, of course you can get different guitars sounding the same because you can get pickups that compensate for the natural tonal balance of the wood, just as you could do with an EQ. But stick the same type of pickups in the same position running straight to the same amp, and there will be a huge difference.


But try getting a rock maple bodied guitar with a one-piece maple neck and fretboard against a mahogany bodied guitar with a rosewood fretboard, and now let's see how you fare.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
#27
Mahogany with maple top, Mahogany gives Heavy rocking tone, maple adds clarity and definition, there you go
Quote by The Spoon
I think this man wins the thread.

Quote by ZeGuitarist
We have a winner.
#28
go mahogany with a maple piece top. it has that nice warmth of mahogany, but that nice crisp sound from the maple.
Quote by illuminatiano
do not go on guitar forums

there are drugs there

( and ololol there are )
#29
Quote by Esparko
By those specs you want, the musicman John Petrucci sig fits perfectly into those wood requests..

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Music-Man-Ball-Family-Reserve-John-Petrucci-6-Electric-Guitar?sku=518578

Wood: Alder with mahogany tone block
So it's pretty much a mix of both, the mahogany runs from the neck join to right around the bridge i think.


Of course it's only if you have that much cash to shell out.


man, if i had the money, i would have pounced on one of those already.

so considering i'm getting more people saying Mahogany+Maple top, which one of these should i get?

http://www.rondomusic.com/ps900chrome.html

http://www.rondomusic.com/product1755.html
with a pickup change.

or should i just go all mahogany neck-through?

http://www.rondomusic.com/product1256.html
with a pickup change
Ibanez RG7321
Dean Evo Special 7
Agile AL-2000
ESP LTD VB-300
Peavey Vypyr 30
General of the 7 String/ERG Legion

Quote by Bentheemo
Thats probably some of the best advice I've ever received on here.
Last edited by ugmung at Jan 25, 2009,
#30
Quote by ugmung
man, if i had the money, i would have pounced on one of those already.

so considering i'm getting more people saying Mahogany+Maple top, which one of these should i get?

http://www.rondomusic.com/ps900chrome.html

http://www.rondomusic.com/product1755.html
with a pickup change.

or should i just go all mahogany neck-through?

http://www.rondomusic.com/product1256.html
with a pickup change

DO NOT and i repeat DO NOT GET A NECK TRU

I would say the PS-900
Quote by The Spoon
I think this man wins the thread.

Quote by ZeGuitarist
We have a winner.
#31
Trust me guys, I"m not the only one out there that thinks this way. I'm not going to argue about it, simply not worth it to me. Kinda like the 1w tube is louder then 1w ss amp debate. My whole point was that a basswood guitar can sound not muddy or whatever else he said his sounded like with some pups, or pots and cap.

Then again this thread is a way for the TS talk himself into buying a new guitar. To each their own.
#32
Quote by tsukoyomimoon
DO NOT and i repeat DO NOT GET A NECK TRU

I would say the PS-900


why not?
Ibanez RG7321
Dean Evo Special 7
Agile AL-2000
ESP LTD VB-300
Peavey Vypyr 30
General of the 7 String/ERG Legion

Quote by Bentheemo
Thats probably some of the best advice I've ever received on here.
#33
Quote by MrFlibble
What guitars are they even? There's more to a body's sound than just what wood it's made of - an alder LP will sound very different to an alder Strat for example.


+1

i tried a JJ LP-alike, with an alder body and set mahogany neck, and it sounded pretty close to most other LPs I've tried.

best bet is to try a bunch of guitars with different woods, and different construction techniques (bolt-on, set neck, neck-thru) and different hardware (wraparound bridge, tunomatic, trems etc.) to see if you find anything you like.

korina's probably worth a look too, but i haven't tried korina.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#34
Quote by mmolteratx
+1
Wood is the biggest tone factor, behind the amp of course.


I'm pretty sure they are. I think that's why the Ibanez Fireman prices are supposed to be so high.


They're high because only 50 will be made, and Ibanez is overpricing their ****.

Gibson makes the '59 explorer and '58 V with Korina, and you don't see their prices so high. In fact, they're both one of the cheaper and good bang/buck gibsons you can find around.
Quote by satchgear
I tried it out in store.

Great neck, nice n light, good tuning stability. Overall a good guitar. I didn't but it cause I generally only buy guitars over a grand now.
#35
check out swamp ash sounds somewhere in between for me
Music is the holy grail, sod wine water and the blood of jesus
#37
Quote by Dave_Mc

korina's probably worth a look too, but i haven't tried korina.

Do, it sounds beautiful.

The only problem is it tends to have dead worms inside it. Seriously. That freaks me the hell out so I can't bring myself to play a korina guitar for more than a minute or two.

Quote by ugmung
why not?
Neck-through guitars have been proven to have the worst sustain around on average (despite what advertising might claim), if the neck gets damaged you're even more screwed on a neck-through than you are on a set-neck, the fret access is very rarely any better than a good bolt-on or set joint, and neck-throughs tend to cost more than bolt-on or set-neck equivalents despite being all-round a worse option.

Quote by Varkunus
check out swamp ash sounds somewhere in between for me
Swamp ash is brighter than alder and nothing like mahogany...
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
#38
Quote by MrFlibble

Neck-through guitars have been proven to have the worst sustain around on average (despite what advertising might claim), if the neck gets damaged you're even more screwed on a neck-through than you are on a set-neck, the fret access is very rarely any better than a good bolt-on or set joint, and neck-throughs tend to cost more than bolt-on or set-neck equivalents despite being all-round a worse option.


So you must be UG's Savant at 22 years old. Wow, simply wow.
#39
Quote by MrFlibble
Do, it sounds beautiful.

The only problem is it tends to have dead worms inside it. Seriously. That freaks me the hell out so I can't bring myself to play a korina guitar for more than a minute or two.

Neck-through guitars have been proven to have the worst sustain around on average (despite what advertising might claim), if the neck gets damaged you're even more screwed on a neck-through than you are on a set-neck, the fret access is very rarely any better than a good bolt-on or set joint, and neck-throughs tend to cost more than bolt-on or set-neck equivalents despite being all-round a worse option.

Swamp ash is brighter than alder and nothing like mahogany...


oh. i always heard they were better...
Ibanez RG7321
Dean Evo Special 7
Agile AL-2000
ESP LTD VB-300
Peavey Vypyr 30
General of the 7 String/ERG Legion

Quote by Bentheemo
Thats probably some of the best advice I've ever received on here.
#40
Quote by ugmung
why not?

What MrFlibble said.
Bolt-ons and Set necks are much better.
I prefer bolt-ons, but some prefer set necks because they say there's better high fret access
Quote by The Spoon
I think this man wins the thread.

Quote by ZeGuitarist
We have a winner.
Page 1 of 3