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#1
The guitar I want to modify is the 7-string Ibanez S7320. According to the specs, it has a 25.5" scale (although I'm a bit skeptical, as the radius reads the same as a 6-string) and 22 jumbo frets. I'm wondering if I could get a refret job so it has 27 medium jumbo frets instead. Will this work, or do I need a lesson in physics concerning the massive complications of such a job?

Originally I was looking at the Ibanez XPT707FX. As you can see, the left horn/heel is a lot less obstructive to the upper frets than with the Ibanez S7320. Also, the body isn't as thin as the S, which I think is a bit too thin. Problem is, color (I'd prefer pure black) but mainly the lack of the ZR tremolo. I'm wondering if it's easy to first acquire, than install one of these units. Also take a look at that weird string-through bridge... it seems like cutting out a recession in the body would be a mess.

I'll be sending this to a shop... no DIY here.

AFTER MUCH DISCUSSION, 27 FRETS HAVE BEEN DEEMED IMPRACTICAL. HOW ABOUT 24 FRETS? WOULD THAT REQUIRE A FRETBOARD EXTENSION?
Last edited by G.9 at Jan 27, 2009,
#3
Don't quote me on this but impretty sure it could easily be done in a fret board replacement.
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#4
I think on the older s series it was kind of hard to put 24 frets. 27 might be a little harder.
#5
Quote by Pac_man0123
I'm pretty sure that would mess up the intonation of the Saber.

Any chance of adjustment/setup of the bridge (or any other component for that matter) to resolve this issue?

Quote by alternitivebass
Don't quote me on this but impretty sure it could easily be done in a fret board replacement.

Right... that's what I was planning. Getting a refret job... unless that doesn't mean the same thing?
#6
you'd lose the neck pickup if you added 5 frets onto the end of the s7320's fretboard, which is what you'd effectively be doing. this wouldn't improve upper fret access either as the 1st-22nd frets would be in the exact same places.

finding a 7 string ZR isn't too hard but installing one would be expensive.

rich at ibanezrules.com should be able to get you a ZR7. it's $360 for the trem alone. and installation will be a couple of hundred I'd wager.
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#7
Quote by Lemoninfluence
you'd lose the neck pickup if you added 5 frets onto the end of the s7320's fretboard, which is what you'd effectively be doing. this wouldn't improve upper fret access either as the 1st-22nd frets would be in the exact same places.

finding a 7 string ZR isn't too hard but installing one would be expensive.

rich at ibanezrules.com should be able to get you a ZR7. it's $360 for the trem alone. and installation will be a couple of hundred I'd wager.

He's talking about changing the frets to be closer together and adding more though, and im almost positive that'd mess up intonation beyond fixing.
#8
that sounds like a pain in the ass. but if you want to, why the hell not?
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#9
Quote by Lemoninfluence
you'd lose the neck pickup if you added 5 frets onto the end of the s7320's fretboard, which is what you'd effectively be doing. this wouldn't improve upper fret access either as the 1st-22nd frets would be in the exact same places.

He'd be keeping the same scale length assuming that it would be making the frets shorter not extedning the fret board unless a bridge movement will happen.

And to TS yes basicly a refret job but it might be just as easy to get a completly new fretboard
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#10
you can't just "add frets" the notes would then all be in the wrong place - unless you did some serious bridge moving. the frets are where they are for a reason...
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#11
Quote by doive
you can't just "add frets" the notes would then all be in the wrong place - unless you did some serious bridge moving. the frets are where they are for a reason...

Inotation can be adjusted for the extra frets, but it will not be able to be as exact as a 24 fret but it can work.
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#12
but an octave is an exact halving of remaining string length - thats how music works. if you put the frets closer together that wouldn't hold any more and every note would be flat.

say you put 27 frets instead of 24. fret 27 would then be where fret 24 should be and thus be the same note (i.e. on the A string fret 27 would play as an A not a C)
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#13
Yes, but you adjust the inotation to work. I can make my A sound like an E on the twelth fret with an intoation set up without changing the tuning.
http://www.ibanez.com/eg/guitar.aspx?m=XPT700XH
Ibanez has done here exactly what he wants to do
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#14
Quote by alternitivebass
Yes, but you adjust the inotation to work. I can make my A sound like an E on the twelth fret with an intoation set up without changing the tuning.
http://www.ibanez.com/eg/guitar.aspx?m=XPT700XH
Ibanez has done here exactly what he wants to do

Keep in mind that the neck pickup is single coil and since the fretboard goes right up to it, then the fretboard is obviously extended further over the body than the normal, 24 fret xiphos. That is not what this guy wants to do.
#15
Quote by alternitivebass
Yes, but you adjust the inotation to work. I can make my A sound like an E on the twelth fret with an intoation set up without changing the tuning.
http://www.ibanez.com/eg/guitar.aspx?m=XPT700XH
Ibanez has done here exactly what he wants to do


on that guitar they have just added 3 extra frets to the bottom - hence the normal humbucker has been squashed to a single coil. (compare the pictures with a ruler if you don't believe me)

if you can change your intonation by a 4th than you have a seriously movable bridge...? can it move about 3 inches along the body?
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#16
Quote by Pac_man0123
Keep in mind that the neck pickup is single coil and since the fretboard goes right up to it, then the fretboard is obviously extended further over the body than the normal, 24 fret xiphos. That is not what this guy wants to do.

Yes true, but for 5 frets it's not much movement. I really shouldnt have said exactly though. What im saying is it can be done, im not saying the intotation is going to be perfect and it might require a small bridge adjustment.
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The 2 best colours EVER pitted against each other? No wai!

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#17
Quote by alternitivebass
He'd be keeping the same scale length assuming that it would be making the frets shorter not extedning the fret board unless a bridge movement will happen.

And to TS yes basicly a refret job but it might be just as easy to get a completly new fretboard

you couldn't do that. almost every note would be out of tune.

I don't care what you say you cannot change the pitch of the a string 5 or 7 frets by changing the bridge intonation.

it defies physics.

the only way to do it keeping the same scale length is to extend the fretboard. assuming the scale length and tuning are always the same, the distance from the nut to fret x will be the same on any guitar (give or take a few mm).

what you're proposing he does is wrong and will only lead him to waste time and money.

Quote by alternitivebass
Yes true, but for 5 frets it's not much movement. I really shouldnt have said exactly though. What im saying is it can be done, im not saying the intotation is going to be perfect and it might require a small bridge adjustment.

NO. this is wrong.
go and find as many 25.5" scale guitars as you like, measure the distance from nut to 12th fret. it will be the same on ALL of them (assuming they're properly in tune and intonated and not just retarded attempted conversions).

that's not a coincidence. it's physics.
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
Last edited by Lemoninfluence at Jan 26, 2009,
#18
wow...seems like it's way to complicated. Why even bother with it? how often would you even use those extra frets anyway. Amazing shredders have come and gone with only 24 and in many cases, 22 frets, and been just fine. I'm sure you can survive with a usual ammount
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#19
Dear God. Well, reason I even thought of this is to make upper fret access comparable to xiphos (xiphos horn coves only 22-24 frets as opposed to 17-22 for s... Basically I was planning for say 22-27 to be obstructed instead)... But despite the expenses of getting a zr for the xiphos, that might be the way to go? Is the installation a common shop job, or something that requires more specialty?
#21
Quote by G.9
Dear God. Well, reason I even thought of this is to make upper fret access comparable to xiphos (xiphos horn coves only 22-24 frets as opposed to 17-22 for s... Basically I was planning for say 22-27 to be obstructed instead)... But despite the expenses of getting a zr for the xiphos, that might be the way to go? Is the installation a common shop job, or something that requires more specialty?

I dunno how much more specialized you can get than a custom shop

Honestly it sounds too complicated but if anything, buy a guitar that already has 27 frets.
#22
LET ME SUM THIS UP

You must get a custom scale neck to fit 27 frets on the same body
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#24
Quote by Don't Panic Ok?
I see your 27 frets, and raise you 36!



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WHY!?!
#25
David Shankle has custom guitars from Waylon Ford at Halo guitars that get up to thirty-six frets. pretty badass too.
#26
Its 25.5 scale so if you push the frets together to fit more frets it will never be in tune, just the way things are nothings going to change the physics of it. Just as someone said a fretjob would be easier, not sure how as new fret slots would have to be cut for every fret to fit more frets on the existing fretboard. An extended fretboard wont work as the extra frets wont be easy to use. You could get a custom neck made that extended the nut out further so the scale would be correct for a 27 fret neck. You just have to ask yourself is the extra frets worth all the effort.
#27
4 words:

i forgot about the7thstring
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Last edited by 5th_fret at Jan 27, 2009,
#28
Quote by 5th_fret
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where's the 7th string?

am I the only one that noticed that both guitars he's talking about have 7 strings?
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#29
You'll need a new fretboard and no neck pickup/a new neck.

But if you're getting that done by someone else you might as well go for the whole custom guitar.
#30
You could get a fretboard extension. You would have to move your humbucker a little. If you're feeling really frisky you can carve away some of the guitar to increase the upper fret access.
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#31
Quote by Lemoninfluence

NO. this is wrong.
go and find as many 25.5" scale guitars as you like, measure the distance from nut to 12th fret. it will be the same on ALL of them (assuming they're properly in tune and intonated and not just retarded attempted conversions).

that's not a coincidence. it's physics.

I was thinking about this the other day and I reached the same conclusion. I am almost 100% sure that if you find all like say 25.5" scale guitar and measure distance from the nut to the 12th fret, they're all the same and it's because of some physical relation, not just coincidence.

To TS: if you want a 27 fret instead of 22, you're going to have to extend the fretboard into the body, and get rid of the neck pickup, that's what I think.

I also think that it's not worth to get the Xiphos and then pay to get the 7 string tremolo, that would be quite expensive. Why not just get a guitar that has all the things you need? Look around for a 7 string with a tremolo that has the upper fret access that you want. I'm not sure why you care so much about the upper fret access, but I'm not one to judge. I'm going to guess you probably already have looked around for something to suit you, but it's either too expensive or you need a custom guitar (which is expensive as well).
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Last edited by MustangSVT at Jan 27, 2009,
#32
Alright, so how about getting 24 frets? I really hope that doesn't require a fretboard extension, it isn't really anything too radical.

@Mustang: I like the ZR tremolo. Very much like the Tremol-No, according to these guys. Stabilizer and alternate tunings all in one. S7320 is the only 7-string that comes with a ZR, so the options are quite limited.
#33
24 won't work without a fretboard extension either, sorry.
I thought the idea out to death when I was thinkin' about modding my S (a postponed project as of the moment ) and unless you want to move the neck pickup, you won't be able to, I was thinkin' of sorta taking a chunk out of the neck pickup to make it work but it'd be VERY impractical and difficult.
Though you could put a single coil where the coil of the neck pickup that is closest to the bridge would be and you'd probably fit an extended fretboard.
#34
Quote by Punk_Ninja
24 won't work without a fretboard extension either, sorry.
I thought the idea out to death when I was thinkin' about modding my S (a postponed project as of the moment ) and unless you want to move the neck pickup, you won't be able to, I was thinkin' of sorta taking a chunk out of the neck pickup to make it work but it'd be VERY impractical and difficult.
Though you could put a single coil where the coil of the neck pickup that is closest to the bridge would be and you'd probably fit an extended fretboard.

Damn... I'm really left in a dilemma then.
#35
ORDER A CUSTOM SCALE NECK!!!
Duh.
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#36
Just make it 24 frets.

27 fret (and even 24 frets sometimes) sound horribly high, and lack depth in tone imo. Just learn where the pinch harmonics are located for those tones, or do you really wanna play substantial melodies/licks up that high?

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 27, 2009,
#37
Quote by isan
ORDER A CUSTOM SCALE NECK!!!
Duh.


Unfortunately it's still going to require the removal or at least moving the neck pickup.
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#38
As far as I know, even if you want to go from a 22 to a 24, then you're gonna have to get a new neck and I'm assuming you probably need to carve some extra space through the body for the extra frets.
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#39
Quote by G.9
Alright, so how about getting 24 frets? I really hope that doesn't require a fretboard extension, it isn't really anything too radical.

@Mustang: I like the ZR tremolo. Very much like the Tremol-No, according to these guys. Stabilizer and alternate tunings all in one. S7320 is the only 7-string that comes with a ZR, so the options are quite limited.


I have both the tremol-no on my other guitars and a Ibanez S with a ZR trem. They are NOTHING ALIKE.

The ZR is a string spring return setup. The Tremol-no is a tremolo backstop with control. With the tremol-no you can lock the trem in place, or in dive bomb mode, which allows rapid drop tuning, then tuning back to whatever without affecting the tremolo. The ZR does not lock.
#40
Quote by Castiel
I have both the tremol-no on my other guitars and a Ibanez S with a ZR trem. They are NOTHING ALIKE.

The ZR is a string spring return setup. The Tremol-no is a tremolo backstop with control. With the tremol-no you can lock the trem in place, or in dive bomb mode, which allows rapid drop tuning, then tuning back to whatever without affecting the tremolo. The ZR does not lock.

I think he meant they are similar in that they offer more stability and return. He didn't say they were exactly the same.
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