#1
I know how to play Battery by Metallica except the solo. Practice, practice, practice...

Here's the idea: I'm starting fresh. Dropping all my knowledge and starting over with my fingers and my guitar. I was never too into practice, but was always pressed for time. Well, now I have time. I have about 8-12 hours a day where I'm basically in stasis... so I thought I would fill this time with guitar practice.

More specifically...

I figure this: one (long) scale per day paired with a few chords a day for thirty days. Basically practicing both for hours on end (as I said, 8-12). After every session learning new things I then proceed to quickly practice the ones done beforehand a few times over.

That means if I started today I will have this one scale and two chords practiced about 8 hours and then tomorrow I do another scale and two more chords and practice the prior day's scales and chords for an hour or so.

By day 30, this would be practicing the new scales and such and then the other things after. (Yeah, I actually do have a spectacular enough memory to do this.)

This is all hypothetical, of course.

So let's say I have 7 months of 8 hours a day. Assuming I go "normal person" speed at learning (i.e. the more time put in the better the result), how good might I be after those 7 months? That's about 1700 hours of guitarwork.

(Yeah, I have 7 months of free time.)

I would be learning how to use the scales and chords of course, that's part of the work involved.

Thanks, and pardon if this is in the wrong area.
Jackson SL1 Soloist / Seymour Duncan Pickups
Shitty Zoom G1 "Effects Pedal"
Shitty Esteban Acoustic Guitar Amp

(hey, makes ends meet until I get more cash. The SL1 was a gift, the other stuff I bought myself, amp before, Zoom after)
#2
8 Hours of practice is an awfully long time. I only practice about an hour/day. Sometimes more, sometimes less. My point is you might not want to try to practice this much per day. You could get bored with the guitar and stop playing it all together. Also, one scale isn't something you're going to want to just run up and down for 8 hours. That would be terrible for you.
#3
Quote by The.new.guy
8 Hours of practice is an awfully long time. I only practice about an hour/day. Sometimes more, sometimes less. My point is you might not want to try to practice this much per day. You could get bored with the guitar and stop playing it all together. Also, one scale isn't something you're going to want to just run up and down for 8 hours. That would be terrible for you.

The goal with practicing a single thing for a hell of a long time is to see how fast I can go with it, how I can modify it and make it sound good, all of that.

I'm good at focused learning. If I did more than one it would end badly...

I know 8 hours SOUNDS like a long time, but when you'd otherwise be just laying around all day, it's not such a long time to do something productive.
Jackson SL1 Soloist / Seymour Duncan Pickups
Shitty Zoom G1 "Effects Pedal"
Shitty Esteban Acoustic Guitar Amp

(hey, makes ends meet until I get more cash. The SL1 was a gift, the other stuff I bought myself, amp before, Zoom after)
#4
^
What he said. If you want to get good, just do covers of songs. If you're really that devoted, and you're willing to play that long a day for that long, you will get much more than just scales. Main point is, keep it interesting and fun. That's what guitar is about anyway.
#5
Well gee thanks for answering my question...

I don't want lectures, I want to know what 1700 hours of practicing as much as possible would do. I don't want to know how you think I should approach it.
Jackson SL1 Soloist / Seymour Duncan Pickups
Shitty Zoom G1 "Effects Pedal"
Shitty Esteban Acoustic Guitar Amp

(hey, makes ends meet until I get more cash. The SL1 was a gift, the other stuff I bought myself, amp before, Zoom after)
#6
there is no answer to this question. you'll be "better" if you practice intensely all the time for an extended period of time. that's as specific as it gets. as for how much practice is too much... there is a small risk of medical problems stemming from overworking your hand, wrist and arm muscles, but if you stop when something starts to hurt, you should be just fine.

there is no unit of measurement for how skilled you will become, nor can anyone accurately say "you'll be as good as someone who's played for ___ years." it's all completely subjective, and depends entirely on the individual. maybe you've got a good memory for notes, but if you don't grasp the theory behind the notes fast enough, your development will be slower than if you were a theory master. it depends on what kind of music you play, what kind of music you listen to, and what you consider to be an acceptable level of skill.

i'll tell you this: you won't get any worse at guitar if you play all the time. you may get bored, but you won't see a decrease in playing ability.

as for finding out how good you are, you need to consider how others react to your playing, and be honest about what you see. if people cringe when they hear you play, or give you you a semi-blank stare followed by "that was.... interesting" then you might need work. if people start bobbing their heads and/or cracking a smile when you play, then you're doing okay. if you can play along with a CD and actually match every note and groove like the band does, then you're doing good. if you play along to a CD and it suddenly sounds like noise, the problem isn't with the CD.

hope this helped
#7
Quote by frigginjerk
there is no answer to this question. you'll be "better" if you practice intensely all the time for an extended period of time. that's as specific as it gets. as for how much practice is too much... there is a small risk of medical problems stemming from overworking your hand, wrist and arm muscles, but if you stop when something starts to hurt, you should be just fine.

there is no unit of measurement for how skilled you will become, nor can anyone accurately say "you'll be as good as someone who's played for ___ years." it's all completely subjective, and depends entirely on the individual. maybe you've got a good memory for notes, but if you don't grasp the theory behind the notes fast enough, your development will be slower than if you were a theory master. it depends on what kind of music you play, what kind of music you listen to, and what you consider to be an acceptable level of skill.

i'll tell you this: you won't get any worse at guitar if you play all the time. you may get bored, but you won't see a decrease in playing ability.

as for finding out how good you are, you need to consider how others react to your playing, and be honest about what you see. if people cringe when they hear you play, or give you you a semi-blank stare followed by "that was.... interesting" then you might need work. if people start bobbing their heads and/or cracking a smile when you play, then you're doing okay. if you can play along with a CD and actually match every note and groove like the band does, then you're doing good. if you play along to a CD and it suddenly sounds like noise, the problem isn't with the CD.

hope this helped

Now this is a helpful post. Thanks very much!

I'm good at rhythm ("groove") and following albums. I can do the rhythm part to Metallica's Battery and match up perfectly. A friend and I played it together (he did lead) and people were banging their heads like a madhouse! I guess I'm pretty good in that respect.

The main thing is getting down harder chord progressions (Battery is pretty easy) and becoming speedy enough to handle the solos. I listen to mainly death metal (Napalm Death, Entombed, Morbid Angel) but would much rather play thrash metal (Megadeth mostly).

For what it's worth, I had planned on spending some of the time to learn covers... just when I'm sure I can actually get through them. No one can learn Peace Sells really really fast and have the solos down in a day, but I'd like to have a pretty decent grasp on it pretty quickly.

Otherwise I'm good, I just never really tried too hard. Haha.
Jackson SL1 Soloist / Seymour Duncan Pickups
Shitty Zoom G1 "Effects Pedal"
Shitty Esteban Acoustic Guitar Amp

(hey, makes ends meet until I get more cash. The SL1 was a gift, the other stuff I bought myself, amp before, Zoom after)
#8
Quote by Venice
Now this is a helpful post. Thanks very much!

I'm good at rhythm ("groove") and following albums. I can do the rhythm part to Metallica's Battery and match up perfectly. A friend and I played it together (he did lead) and people were banging their heads like a madhouse! I guess I'm pretty good in that respect.

The main thing is getting down harder chord progressions (Battery is pretty easy) and becoming speedy enough to handle the solos. I listen to mainly death metal (Napalm Death, Entombed, Morbid Angel) but would much rather play thrash metal (Megadeth mostly).

For what it's worth, I had planned on spending some of the time to learn covers... just when I'm sure I can actually get through them. No one can learn Peace Sells really really fast and have the solos down in a day, but I'd like to have a pretty decent grasp on it pretty quickly.

Otherwise I'm good, I just never really tried too hard. Haha.


cool. make sure you learn some theory regarding intervals, chord construction and playing in key. it'll help you understand how those big long thrash solos are constructed, and how they fit over the underlying chords. with greater understanding, the amount of time it takes to memorize licks and solos will decrease.

a few quick pointers... don't neglect your pinky finger, or the benefits of playing positionally whenever possible. since you're playing lots of thrash, you should be careful to avoid anchoring your picking hand. this means that you should only be resting your hand on the guitar when it's to palm-mute, or for some reason specific to what you're playing. too many people try to play big-ass shred solos with their fretting hand glued to the bridge, and it causes carpal tunnel syndrome. for more about anchoring, click this link: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=974860
#9
Quote by Venice
Assuming I go "normal person" speed at learning (i.e. the more time put in the better the result), how good might I be after those 7 months?


Nobody could possibly answer that question. In trying to do your calculus with time
giving some level of achievement, you're neglecting that time isn't all that important
a factor, it's what you're doing in that time. There isn't a "normal person"
level you can assume. There's not even any real measure of result.

I do know that being overly concerned about some hypothetical future only has one significant effect on progress: it only slows it down. The only thing you have any
control of is how well you practice in the present.
#10
Well, first of all I'm green with envy at the idea of having that much time available to practice

edg is right, though. First, it's impossible to really measure being at a certain level - it's not like you can really say "I'm at 3.716539 units of rockingness, but if I work my butt off I will be at 5.11485 units!". There's just a general sense of pretty good, good, very good, etc, and even that's highly subjective. The need for absolute measurements of progress is why people get so hung up on speed imo - the metronome markings give an illusion of an absolute measurement.

I will say this, though. If you practice well, you can make some serious progress in this time. So what is "practicing well"? You hear "focused practice" mentioned around here a lot, but what is it really? To me, it means practice where all your energy is going into achieving something. Defining a goal, figuring out what stands between you and that goal, coming up with a method of attacking that obstacle, working on it while paying constant attention to the feedback you are getting as you work on it, making adjustments.

A person that feeds himself a steady diet of new goals, and becomes good at the skill of finding the most effective way of identifying and solving the obstacles is going to make the fastest progress.

And remember, always save a chunk of time where you just forget all that - goof off and have fun. Balance is really important.

Make sure you are giving your mind and hands a rest...I'd consider breaking your 7 hrs into 3 chunks of 1.75-2hrs and giving yourself some down time in between, as well as shorter 5 minute breaks every 30-40 mins to come up for air. You focus a lot better in shorter stretches, and you are protecting your hands by doing this also.

Good luck and enjoy all that time!
#11
Quote by Venice
I know how to play Battery by Metallica except the solo. Practice, practice, practice...

Here's the idea: I'm starting fresh. Dropping all my knowledge and starting over with my fingers and my guitar. I was never too into practice, but was always pressed for time. Well, now I have time. I have about 8-12 hours a day where I'm basically in stasis... so I thought I would fill this time with guitar practice.

More specifically...

I figure this: one (long) scale per day paired with a few chords a day for thirty days. Basically practicing both for hours on end (as I said, 8-12). After every session learning new things I then proceed to quickly practice the ones done beforehand a few times over.

That means if I started today I will have this one scale and two chords practiced about 8 hours and then tomorrow I do another scale and two more chords and practice the prior day's scales and chords for an hour or so.

By day 30, this would be practicing the new scales and such and then the other things after. (Yeah, I actually do have a spectacular enough memory to do this.)

This is all hypothetical, of course.

So let's say I have 7 months of 8 hours a day. Assuming I go "normal person" speed at learning (i.e. the more time put in the better the result), how good might I be after those 7 months? That's about 1700 hours of guitarwork.

(Yeah, I have 7 months of free time.)

I would be learning how to use the scales and chords of course, that's part of the work involved.

Thanks, and pardon if this is in the wrong area.


Just go thorugh random scale patterns all around the fretboard and play randommelodies, they help u remmeber really easily.
#12
Quote by se012101
Well, first of all I'm green with envy at the idea of having that much time available to practice

edg is right, though. First, it's impossible to really measure being at a certain level - it's not like you can really say "I'm at 3.716539 units of rockingness, but if I work my butt off I will be at 5.11485 units!". There's just a general sense of pretty good, good, very good, etc, and even that's highly subjective. The need for absolute measurements of progress is why people get so hung up on speed imo - the metronome markings give an illusion of an absolute measurement.

I will say this, though. If you practice well, you can make some serious progress in this time. So what is "practicing well"? You hear "focused practice" mentioned around here a lot, but what is it really? To me, it means practice where all your energy is going into achieving something. Defining a goal, figuring out what stands between you and that goal, coming up with a method of attacking that obstacle, working on it while paying constant attention to the feedback you are getting as you work on it, making adjustments.

A person that feeds himself a steady diet of new goals, and becomes good at the skill of finding the most effective way of identifying and solving the obstacles is going to make the fastest progress.

And remember, always save a chunk of time where you just forget all that - goof off and have fun. Balance is really important.

Make sure you are giving your mind and hands a rest...I'd consider breaking your 7 hrs into 3 chunks of 1.75-2hrs and giving yourself some down time in between, as well as shorter 5 minute breaks every 30-40 mins to come up for air. You focus a lot better in shorter stretches, and you are protecting your hands by doing this also.

Good luck and enjoy all that time!


U just shat all over picasso
#13
In regards to long practise sessions, some of the most valuable instrument practise sessions ive had were doing 1 thing for a long time like the chromatic scale. It really helps the muscle memory. Mike Mangini the famous drummer wrote a book about it (and he is the fastest)

In relation to what is best for you, i would suggest normally just having a small goal like a solo a scale an arpeggio a small bit of theory etc. If you dont have small goals you will be demotivated. Additionally i think it is very important to have a buddy who is at the same level as you or a bit better so you push yourself. Finally, i found residential guitar courses work very well, because you are immersed in guitar. I did one with guthrie govan.
#14
I think I will practice scales (to get up to speed, literally) and learn some music theory at the same time. In addition I will devote about equal time to covering songs as a base to learn more rhythm and how to properly solo.

First song on the chopping block: Peace Sells - Megadeth.

Rhythm won't be too hard on this one, it's the solos I worry about. But hey, gotta do what I can.
Jackson SL1 Soloist / Seymour Duncan Pickups
Shitty Zoom G1 "Effects Pedal"
Shitty Esteban Acoustic Guitar Amp

(hey, makes ends meet until I get more cash. The SL1 was a gift, the other stuff I bought myself, amp before, Zoom after)
#15
I always try to answer these "How long will it take me to get good?" posts (and
they pop up quite regularly), because I don't think it's generally realized how insidious this particular attitude is to practicing.

As I said before:

Quote by edg

I do know that being overly concerned about some hypothetical future only has one significant effect on progress: it only slows it down. The only thing you have any
control of is how well you practice in the present.


And, you might be tempted to think that's so abstract, it doesn't make that much
difference. But, if there's any attitude that brings your practicing to the pits of
inefficiency, this is it.

It may be hard to see this until you actually "see it" by experience it, but I'll try
explaining a bit more.

When you have this attitude, you're giving an elevated importance to some kind of
future result. In your mind, it becomes more real and "the way it should be". This
starts to place all kinds of conditions on your practicing (which you have to do in
the present). Now, practicing has conditions. Rather than just being focused on
the practice, you're comparing all your minute-by-minute practice results with some
imaginary path to some imaginary future. All this leads to is frustration, anger at
yourself and your progress, and a whole host of negative attitudes. It's all these
negative attitudes and emotions that REALLY HURT your ability to progress in
practice.
#16
^ +1

my take on it is this

practice as long as you can focus on it. if you find your mind wandering and you start randomly jamming cover songs just to have fun cuz uyour brain is bored then do that. don't try to force yourself to do something your brains not into learning at the moment

like everyone else said, you can't really measure ability. i think i'm a good guitarist, then i watch a video of batio or gilbert and i want to kick my own ass. it's all independent of a persons perspective. you can't say "in 2 months i have to be this good" because if in 2 months you're not that good it can get ya kinda down even if you have made considerable progress. me personally, i can't sweep and my goal was "learn to sweep" thats it, not "learn to sweep in 2 months or 6 months or a year" i've progressed considerably in it over the past year and a half or so but im still not awesome at it. hopefully in another year or year and a half i'll be pretty awesome at it.

tl;dr
basically listen to what SE012101 and edg have already said.
#17
I have relatively low standards for myself. If 1700 hours lets me learn Peace Sells in its entirety (including solos) I will be impressed to hell and back.
Jackson SL1 Soloist / Seymour Duncan Pickups
Shitty Zoom G1 "Effects Pedal"
Shitty Esteban Acoustic Guitar Amp

(hey, makes ends meet until I get more cash. The SL1 was a gift, the other stuff I bought myself, amp before, Zoom after)
#18
Alright i'll ad my two cents. Depending on what kind of progress you're after and what you want your final result to be then that;s what you should base your practice schedule off of.

One of my guitar tutors told me that you can't practice for more than 30 mins at a time without your mind wandering and you getting bored... this is infact true after 30 mins of practicing the same thing you will eventually get worse and worse at it. Remember playing guitar is about muscle memory so when you are practicing riffs / scales / licks whatever you are programming in the technique.

What you should do is take about a 20 minute break in between each session so that you have time to eat / rehydrate and regain focus then maybe run over what you've just covered once or twice then move on. Your body needs time to adjust and rest it's just like with physical excersize. You don't gain muscle by working out.. you gain it by resting afterward.

A good little practice scheme me and my tutor drew up was to do what you hate first... so if you really dislike pitch recognition and intervals or theory.. do 30 mins of that take a break.. come back and practice a technique that you really want to get down tight say sweeping / legato / hybrid picking etc... follow the 30 mins play.. 20 mins rest routine. If you can do that for 8 - 12 hours a day for a month you will see unbelievable results !

Set yourself longterm and shorterm goals too.. this is important to see progress as it will encourage you and motivate you.

Don't let other people tell you not to play for hours on end.. just balance out the time and use it effectively.
Last edited by Zanon at Jan 28, 2009,