#1
Be consider a musician even if you dont know how to read music and that theory stuff?
i was talking to my friend and she said if you dont know music your not a musician,to be a musician you must know how to read music,and understand theory. but i consider mikael akerfelt one of the best , musician of our time. what u do you?
#3
A musician is anyone who makes music. You don't have to know how to read music and everything but it does really help. Prime example: Stevie Ray Vaughan didn't know how to read music but he was still a great musician.
#4
Yes.

The people who invented music theory had to start with nothing, so by that logic they would be technically non-musician before they created music theory.


Your a musician if you make music.

You're a professional or "accomplished" musician if you know music theory.

If you become famous with ur music and you can or cannot write music, ur most likely called an Artist or Performer (although you can also be called an artist with the following above)

A good guitar player refers to someone who can play guitar well (like John Petrucci)

Virtuoso is someone who is pushing/exploring boundaries between the instrumental skill and in his respective music style (Vai, Paganinni,)

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 28, 2009,
#5
Theres a big difference between being a player and being a musician. Musicians understand music, not just the guitar.

Besides, theory only sucks until the light bulb goes on upstairs, then its freakin' awesome!
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#6
That's a bunch of bull****.
There are lots of musicians who don't know how read music nor have a super understanding of theory.
Just shut up n play yer guitar.
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#7
Quote by xxdarrenxx

You're a professional musician if you can write music.


youre a professional musician when you make money from music.

youre a musician if you play music. it has nothing to do with musicality, what or how many instruments you can play, or your grasp of theory.
#8
Quote by liam177lewis
youre a professional musician when you make money from music.

youre a musician if you play music. it has nothing to do with musicality, what or how many instruments you can play, or your grasp of theory.


yeah thats how i see it.
#9
Quote by liam177lewis
youre a professional musician when you make money from music.

youre a musician if you play music. it has nothing to do with musicality, what or how many instruments you can play, or your grasp of theory.


That's a Commercial musician. Don't watch too much MTV

By ur logic, if my dad gives me 10 euros if I play him a song; I'm a professional lol.

Then even street musician's are Professionals, cause they play music every day on the streets for money.

A 'true' professional must be proficient in all criteria for the field of work they are practising professionally in. Criteria include following:

1. Academic qualifications - a doctoral or law degree - i.e., university college/institute
2. Expert and specialised knowledge in field which one is practising professionally
3. Excellent manual/practical and literary skills in relation to profession
4. High quality work in (examples): creations, products, services, presentations, consultancy, primary/other research, administrative, marketing or other work endeavours
5. A high standard of professional ethics, behaviour and work activities while carrying out one's profession (as an employee, self-employed person, career, enterprise, business, company, or partnership/associate/colleague, etc.)

Taken from wiki

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 28, 2009,
#10
Theory is in the ears. If you read, say, that Hendrix didn't know any theory, it means that he didn't learn the naming conventions and notation that other people use. He knew his theory though: he knew what the intervals sounded like, he knew what chords sounded good together, and when he improvised he knew what the notes would sound like before he played them.

If you want to be a session player, then you've got to be able to follow orders, and that means being able to understand the language of regular theory. If you want to be in a band then you can get away with not knowing it, but only if all your band mates are on the same wavelength.

Regardless, it's useful to know if you want to write music. There are basically no problems you'll come across that haven't been approached and solved before. If you want to tap into all that knowledge the world has accumulated for ideas, you'll have to understand the language it's written in.
#11
Quote by anotherbluesguy
Theory is in the ears. If you read, say, that Hendrix didn't know any theory, it means that he didn't learn the naming conventions and notation that other people use. He knew his theory though: he knew what the intervals sounded like, he knew what chords sounded good together, and when he improvised he knew what the notes would sound like before he played them.

If you want to be a session player, then you've got to be able to follow orders, and that means being able to understand the language of regular theory. If you want to be in a band then you can get away with not knowing it, but only if all your band mates are on the same wavelength.

Regardless, it's useful to know if you want to write music. There are basically no problems you'll come across that haven't been approached and solved before. If you want to tap into all that knowledge the world has accumulated for ideas, you'll have to understand the language it's written in.


yes but he couldnt say apply those techniques to any other instrument.
he was a brilliant guitarist, but he couldnt write a violin part.
#12
Quote by stephen_rettie
yes but he couldnt say apply those techniques to any other instrument.
he was a brilliant guitarist, but he couldnt write a violin part.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roKH3R3HuSM

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#14
Quote by stephen_rettie
yes but he couldnt say apply those techniques to any other instrument.
he was a brilliant guitarist, but he couldnt write a violin part.


If he learnt to play the violin he could have, but he couldn't have written it in a way another violinist could play it, because he spoke a different language. For the same reasons I'm pretty sure he would have made an awful guitar teacher. Still, he was more than capable of writing music for himself to play.

Edit:



O.M.G...

I think we should all keep quiet now.
Last edited by anotherbluesguy at Jan 28, 2009,
#15
Making music makes you a musician, because if not knowing theory means you're not one, where is the line in which you graduate as one? Many people know theory but can't read music, so therefore i don't think you can udge it on accomplishments or merit it simply has to be judged on making music.
#16
Quote by anotherbluesguy
If he learnt to play the violin he could have, but he couldn't have written it in a way another violinist could play it, because he spoke a different language. For the same reasons I'm pretty sure he would have made an awful guitar teacher. Still, he was more than capable of writing music for himself to play.

Edit:


O.M.G...

I think we should all keep quiet now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nayarBrD6mk

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#17
Quote by anotherbluesguy
If he learnt to play the violin he could have, but he couldn't have written it in a way another violinist could play it, because he spoke a different language. For the same reasons I'm pretty sure he would have made an awful guitar teacher. Still, he was more than capable of writing music for himself to play.


which makes him a good guitarist. a good musician is someone who can write for every instrument. he could play piano and the flute apparently but if he didnt know theory he couldnt write a part for any instrument he hadnt taken the time to learn.
thats my case.
#18
Wow, that piano thing wasn't THAT great...
I thought it was going to be something like his guitar music.
It was basically the same basic piano riff over and over again.
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#19
Quote by stephen_rettie
which makes him a good guitarist. a good musician is someone who can write for every instrument. he could play piano and the flute apparently but if he didnt know theory he couldnt write a part for any instrument he hadnt taken the time to learn.
thats my case.


Write me music for Gamelan and Sitar.

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#21
Someone like Akerfeldt or SRV or McCartney or Cobain or any other famous songwriter who brags about not knowing theory still has their own internal idea of tonal systems and what sounds good. There's no such thing as truly random music-- even if these guys don't know traditional theory, they still have their own internal reckoning of how to make music from experience and trial and error.

However, unless you've gone through the experience of studying the work of other musicians (like all of these guys did) to learn how to write a good song within the style you want to explore (be it Progressive rock, Blues, Pop, or Alternative rock), theory is probably the quickest way to learning to write good music.


Music theory as we know it is descriptive of music that was already there when the discipline became legitimate. True story-- During the Tonal period, most of the theoretical conventions we accept today weren't common knowledge among composers. They composed with ideas that they knew sounded good, but didn't have all the hard and fast rules that are taught now. Many of the more scholastic rules of theory are merely pedagogical guidelines (the Scholastic Fugue form, Basic counterpoint species, etc) and don't apply once you know exactly what you're doing.

If the question you need answered is "Do you need theory to be a musician and why?", the answer is "Maybe." The artists I mentioned earlier spent a lot of time learning and internalizing the music of others, as well as writing their own. If you feel comfortable trying to assimilate how music works just by listening, then don't learn theory. If you want to acquire tools of analysis in order to figure out what's going on in other people's music and how you can use it, then DO learn theory.
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#22
Didn't Hendrix work as a session musician before he became famous?

edit: directed at those guys up there, on page one
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Last edited by mr_magic at Jan 28, 2009,
#23
Quote by Rebelw/outaCord
Someone like Akerfeldt or SRV or McCartney or Cobain or any other famous songwriter who brags about not knowing theory still has their own internal idea of tonal systems and what sounds good. There's no such thing as truly random music-- even if these guys don't know traditional theory, they still have their own internal reckoning of how to make music from experience and trial and error.

However, unless you've gone through the experience of studying the work of other musicians (like all of these guys did) to learn how to write a good song within the style you want to explore (be it Progressive rock, Blues, Pop, or Alternative rock), theory is probably the quickest way to learning to write good music.


Music theory as we know it is descriptive of music that was already there when the discipline became legitimate. True story-- During the Tonal period, most of the theoretical conventions we accept today weren't common knowledge among composers. They composed with ideas that they knew sounded good, but didn't have all the hard and fast rules that are taught now. Many of the more scholastic rules of theory are merely pedagogical guidelines (the Scholastic Fugue form, Basic counterpoint species, etc) and don't apply once you know exactly what you're doing.

If the question you need answered is "Do you need theory to be a musician and why?", the answer is "Maybe." The artists I mentioned earlier spent a lot of time learning and internalizing the music of others, as well as writing their own. If you feel comfortable trying to assimilate how music works just by listening, then don't learn theory. If you want to acquire tools of analysis in order to figure out what's going on in other people's music and how you can use it, then DO learn theory.


e-sex for you sir.
thank you, i hate it when people say knowing theory traps you or you can't do anything new. you managed to coherently say what ive always wanted to yell.
#25
A musician is a person who makes music.

A professional musician is a person who either gets extrinsic reward for their music - whether it be money, notoriety, whatever.

Theory allows you to become literate in the language of music to better equip you to do the things you want to do, and to better equip you to communicate with other musicians. It facilitates your own development, and gives you greater credibility (in the absence of an otherwise acquired reputation of greatness) in the same way that a person who is literate has more credibility in society than the person who is illiterate.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#26
Quote by zenabi87
Be consider a musician even if you dont know how to read music and that theory stuff?
i was talking to my friend and she said if you dont know music your not a musician,to be a musician you must know how to read music,and understand theory. but i consider mikael akerfelt one of the best , musician of our time. what u do you?



Yes, of-course you can be a musician without knowing theory or being able to read music. Your friend is wrong in this case.

Quote by axemanchris
A musician is a person who makes music.
CT


That says it all right there.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jan 28, 2009,
#27
However, I think there needs to be a qualifier in there. If a two year old whacks a toy drum with his Buzz Lightyear action figure, he can be justifiably said to be making music. Is he a musican? No. Not in my opinion.

A musician is a person who demonstrates some sort of inner imperative to make music a part of their lifestyle.

I think I like that better.

My wife sings. She enjoys singing, though she never does it except for the *odd* time singing along to the radio, or when she is singing when we play rockband. She doesn't consider herself a musician. She lacks that inner imperative to make music a part of her lifestyle.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#28


By the way guys, how much theory do you reckon people who have been remember more then 100 years have known?
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[U]      //| \      |       |      [/U]
[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
        |
        L.
#29
Quote by zenabi87
Be consider a musician even if you dont know how to read music and that theory stuff?
i was talking to my friend and she said if you dont know music your not a musician,to be a musician you must know how to read music,and understand theory. but i consider mikael akerfelt one of the best , musician of our time. what u do you?

A musician is one who makes music. It really is that simple.

Quote by axemanchris
However, I think there needs to be a qualifier in there. If a two year old whacks a toy drum with his Buzz Lightyear action figure, he can be justifiably said to be making music. Is he a musican? No. Not in my opinion.

A musician is a person who demonstrates some sort of inner imperative to make music a part of their lifestyle.

I think I like that better.

My wife sings. She enjoys singing, though she never does it except for the *odd* time singing along to the radio, or when she is singing when we play rockband. She doesn't consider herself a musician. She lacks that inner imperative to make music a part of her lifestyle.

CT

Or in other words, in the end, it's up to the people to label themselves. If the two year old wants to beat on a toy drum set and label himself as a musician, technically, he'd be correct. Who am I to tell him he's not? The stuff that he's creating may sound awful to me, but the same can be said for bands like Melt-Banana and 95% of metal.
Banging on a trash can
Drumming on a street light
Last edited by BigFatSandwich at Jan 29, 2009,
#30
Yes, I think that it is largely up to the person to label themselves as such. As for the two year old, even if he/she might want to be considered a musician, can one really say that they have made it part of their lifestyle? I think it is not just an intent, or a few isoloated actions, it is both an intent and a committed and regular pattern of behaviours.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.