#1
to use for sort of a soft sad kind of solo, i was listening to the song this i love by guns n roses and i sorta liked the style but the guitarist is pretty uncreative and uses pretty much the same notes over and over again, so i cant really find the scale

tl;dr: scale for sad songs!

in half step down

e 3 5 6
b 3 5 6
g 2 4 5
d 2 3 5
a 2 3 5
e 1 3 5


thats what ive come up with so far but id like to know other ones
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Last edited by donwuzhere69 at Jan 28, 2009,
#2
None. Scales do not have moods. The sound of a scale is determined entirely by its use and the surrounding context.
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#4
Quote by Archeo Avis
None. Scales do not have moods. The sound of a scale is determined entirely by its use and the surrounding context.



you know what i mean, like the pentatonic sounds bluesy, the phrygian sounds middle eastern
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#5
Quote by one vision
^Technically true I guess.

Minor scales are associated with "sadness".



in that video in ur sig, the romance in d min, is that you playing?
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#6
Quote by donwuzhere69
you know what i mean, like the pentatonic sounds bluesy, the phrygian sounds middle eastern


But...they don't. You're just used to hearing them in those contexts. Plenty (most, actually) uses of the pentatonic scale occur outside of blues and don't sound even remotely bluesy.

Also, don't double post.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#8
Quote by Archeo Avis
But...they don't. You're just used to hearing them in those contexts. Plenty (most, actually) uses of the pentatonic scale occur outside of blues and don't sound even remotely bluesy.

Also, don't double post.



your just being difficult if you couldnt help with my question whyd u bother even posting. nothing better to do?
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#9
Quote by one vision
Yeah, why?



its great man, good job i loved it,
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#10
Quote by donwuzhere69
your just being difficult if you couldnt help with my question whyd u bother even posting. nothing better to do?


Your question was flawed and pointless, and I pointed it out. If you want to write a sad song, the scale you use is the least of your concerns.

Stop double posting and delete the double posts you have already made. You will be reported next time.
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Last edited by Archeo Avis at Jan 28, 2009,
#12
TS, it is all in the style you play. You need to do some research, because you seem to have a limited view on how everything works.
Quote by Gabel
You are EXTREMELY WRONG! I have played it. I own an 18W and it would be an awful stereo amp, it's way too bright, breaks up too easily and so on. Secondly, why would a guitar store sell an hifi amp.
#13
What should his concerns be then Archeo? Why are you so blatantly unhelpful?


You're always the same man. Point out a guy's mistake and never tell him why or how he can improve. Do you get a buck every time you behave like that or what? There's no reason for it and you've been told so many times that it doesn't do anyone any good. Why do you keep on with it? Either help or shut up.


I'd need the chord progression to help you with a scale.
Last edited by Confusius at Jan 28, 2009,
#14
Quote by ripple07
TS, it is all in the style you play. You need to do some research, because you seem to have a limited view on how everything works.



i know thats not how it works and i know its about how u play it and all that, i was just saying which ones are mostly used, like for metal its usually the harmonic minor, diminished scales, phyrigian dominant and all that stuff, and i know the scale doesnt make the song, i just wanted to know which ones were most common in sad songs.
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#15
though Archeo is kinda right that it's more about your chord progression and the overall mood of the piece than what scale you're using to solo, but there's no need to be a pretentious dickwad about it.

writing melodies in the natural minor scale (yes, how you harmonize it is more important than just the melody technically but whatever) will give you a 'sadder' mood. However, it would maybe be more productive to get a good chord progression first, and then write a melody over that, using your ear and not just strictly a scale to get a somber sounding melody.

hope that's a bit helpful/makes sense.
Last edited by phoenix_88 at Jan 28, 2009,
#16
Quote by Confusius
What should his concerns be then Archeo? Why are you so blatantly unhelpful?


You're always the same man. Point out a guy's mistake and never tell him why or how he can improve. Do you get a buck every time you behave like that or what? There's no reason for it and you've been told so many times that it doesn't do anyone any good. Why do you keep on with it? Either help or shut up.


I'd need the chord progression to help you with a scale.


This website provides people with near endless resources for educated themselves about music theory. Every day we get fifty people who don;t want to put in the work required to learn how to structure music to get the sound they want. Instead they ask questions like "which scale should I use to make my song awesome". Music is complex, and it can't be reduced to a scale or a soundbite.

TS: You want to know how to make a sad song? Get a teacher and pick up a few theory textbooks. Spend some time learning how to structure music.
Music is hard.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#17
Quote by phoenix_88
though Archeo is kinda right that it's more about your chord progression and the overall mood of the piece than what scale you're using to solo, but there's no need to be a pretentious dickwad about it.

writing melodies in the natural minor scale (yes, how you harmonize it is more important than just the melody technically but whatever) will give you a 'sadder' mood. However, it would maybe be more productive to get a good chord progression first, and then write a melody over that, using your ear and not just strictly a scale to get a somber sounding melody.

hope that's a bit helpful/makes sense.


if it helps:

well i guess i havent got one made out yet, but one ive been working on has the chord progression Am Dm C Em with some variations but i dont know how youd call them

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/13/377101/h2h.mp3 the progression starts right after the intro, ive always wanted to give it a really sad solo sound but it seems i keep using the same pentatonic scale at the 12th fret and im trying to get out of that box but ive only been playing for a year, most of which was spent learning system of a down stuff, which is very rare to find a solo in, so im pretty new at soloing and finding the notes that i want.
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#18
Quote by donwuzhere69
i know thats not how it works and i know its about how u play it and all that, i was just saying which ones are mostly used, like for metal its usually the harmonic minor, diminished scales, phyrigian dominant and all that stuff, and i know the scale doesnt make the song, i just wanted to know which ones were most common in sad songs.

Ah, I see. Well, minor is very common. The thing with modes, you can be playing in minor and add accidentals that give it a "mode" kind of sound, but to be truley modal, it requires strict arangment, because if you go out of it, you are not playing modal, just playing a major/minor scale with outside notes (That doesnt mean you are playing wrong, just by definition, it is no longer modal). The minor and major scales really are unlimited, so many possibilities. So if you where writing a stereotypical "sad" song, i think most listeners on the street would expect minor. Another tip, when playing a song, dont say "I am playing pentatonic, or i am playing minor" the thing is when you are playing with a pentatonic scale if you add those 2 extra notes that are part of the major/minor scale it can add alot, escpecialy if you use them sparingly in the right place.
Quote by Gabel
You are EXTREMELY WRONG! I have played it. I own an 18W and it would be an awful stereo amp, it's way too bright, breaks up too easily and so on. Secondly, why would a guitar store sell an hifi amp.
#20
Quote by Archeo Avis
This website provides people with near endless resources for educated themselves about music theory. Every day we get fifty people who don;t want to put in the work required to learn how to structure music to get the sound they want. Instead they ask questions like "which scale should I use to make my song awesome". Music is complex, and it can't be reduced to a scale or a soundbite.

TS: You want to know how to make a sad song? Get a teacher and pick up a few theory textbooks. Spend some time learning how to structure music.
Music is hard.



lol stop being an ass.
#21
for a simple answer that the TS will be able to digest, let's just say:

use a minor key and scale. if you play in A minor, for example, you could use the normal A minor scale, or you could try using that scale with a b2 instead of a regular 2nd in a few places to give it a phrygian sound, or make the 6th major for a Dorian sound.

no particular scale or mode actually "sounds" sad... that's all in HOW you play. I recommend minor keys and chords only because they are so commonly associated with the blues, which is a very emotional type of music.
#22
Quote by donwuzhere69
you know what i mean, like the pentatonic sounds bluesy, the phrygian sounds middle eastern


It most definatly does not sound bluesy.

Does the Master Of Puppets solo sound bluesy to you?
#23
I don't see why people can't associate different scales with a mood, as long as you know where the root of the scale is, all the other notes present different intervals; surely the different intervals they create defines the sound because of the differing consonance and dissonance? When improvising surely you choose between possible scales to create a certain mood?

It's no accident that certain scales are used by certain types of musicians... it's because it creates the sound they want. Music is about emotion, so I think it's ridiculous to say that people can't consider scales in terms of the different feelings they create.
#24
Quote by Sam_Vimes
It's no accident that certain scales are used by certain types of musicians... it's because it creates the sound they want. Music is about emotion, so I think it's ridiculous to say that people can't consider scales in terms of the different feelings they create.


it's also no accident that many different types of music use the same scales. The player just has to find the scales that work for themselves. You can argue that scales tend to sound one way or another, but that's only if more people PLAY them that way. There are tons of sad songs in major keys, and tons of uplifting songs in minor keys.

the fact is, scales create different feelings for everyone. think of how some people react differently to the same music than others.
#25
Quote by Archeo Avis
This website provides people with near endless resources for educated themselves about music theory. Every day we get fifty people who don;t want to put in the work required to learn how to structure music to get the sound they want. Instead they ask questions like "which scale should I use to make my song awesome". Music is complex, and it can't be reduced to a scale or a soundbite.

TS: You want to know how to make a sad song? Get a teacher and pick up a few theory textbooks. Spend some time learning how to structure music.
Music is hard.



So you're unnable to direct them towards these resources? You fail to see my point. It's not about the TS, it's about you. You don't realize that everyone was once a beginner and that everyone at one point thought things that weren't completely true. It's the fact that you're such an elitist which is getting to me and lots of other people. You flaunt your behaviour when really all it does is make MT look like an elitist forum for people to self-important to actually want to help someone. That's the function of this forum, helping people. You do realize that, right?
#26
Quote by Archeo Avis
This website provides people with near endless resources for educated themselves about music theory. Every day we get fifty people who don;t want to put in the work required to learn how to structure music to get the sound they want. Instead they ask questions like "which scale should I use to make my song awesome". Music is complex, and it can't be reduced to a scale or a soundbite.

TS: You want to know how to make a sad song? Get a teacher and pick up a few theory textbooks. Spend some time learning how to structure music.
Music is hard.



music isnt hard, its actually pretty easy. and theres more to it than theory. you just sound like an ass and everyone knows it, your just too into yourself to help out with simple questions, and yet you still feel the need to give your own input, knowing its not gonna help at all, and just make you look like even more of an ass, and if thats what your going for good job, but your a fag. its the internet. get a life holy ****.
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#27
Quote by donwuzhere69
music isnt hard, its actually pretty easy. and theres more to it than theory. you just sound like an ass and everyone knows it, your just too into yourself to help out with simple questions, and yet you still feel the need to give your own input, knowing its not gonna help at all, and just make you look like even more of an ass, and if thats what your going for good job, but your a fag. its the internet. get a life holy ****.


You bumped the thread for that? Really?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#28
Quote by donwuzhere69
music isnt hard, its actually pretty easy. and theres more to it than theory. you just sound like an ass and everyone knows it, your just too into yourself to help out with simple questions, and yet you still feel the need to give your own input, knowing its not gonna help at all, and just make you look like even more of an ass, and if thats what your going for good job, but your a fag. its the internet. get a life holy ****.


Music is hard and it is complicated. If you are content with using a number system and patterns to explain music then fine, but you will be limited in that. If music was easy then there wouldn't have been five guitarist music drop outs at my school last term. Seems like so many guitar players are too lazy to learn music =(
#29
ok, to the point,
u listened to gnr
gnr = slash
slash = e minor. (sometimes harmonic)
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#30
Quote by GesadiaH
ok, to the point,
u listened to gnr
gnr = slash
slash = e minor. (sometimes harmonic)


Why in the **** did you revive this thread?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#31
Quote by Archeo Avis
None. Scales do not have moods. The sound of a scale is determined entirely by its use and the surrounding context.


well, not exactly. A scale does have a particular, recognizable sound on its own. I agree though that the context has ALOT to do with the moods that we attribute to them.

TS:
as has been mentioned, minor scales are often associated with "sadness". Your best bet though is to find some music that has the mood your looking for, and do a bit of research to learn what kinds of things they are using. Make sure to take the entire context into consideration.
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#32
You can use the Aeolian (Natural minor), or minor pentatonic. Why is that so hard for people to write?

I guess, you could use others, but thats the simplest way, and what most people would do.