#3
I only remember that it opens with an E and a G, then a B and a C and then a E and a G again but in different octaves.
#4
Music of that complexity cannot be reduced to "chord progressions". Every chord has a function, and it is used whenever that function is called for. You're not going to find a Baroque piece based on a repeating IV-V-I.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#5
Quote by Archeo Avis
Music of that complexity cannot be reduced to "chord progressions". Every chord has a function, and it is used whenever that function is called for. You're not going to find a Baroque piece based on a repeating IV-V-I.

+1

Although clearly there will be chords in the piece there will almost never be simple progressions.

Classical music is, as a whole, a lot less repetitive than modern music. Although, sections and motifs do repeat usually the chords within the section that is being repeated there will not be repitions, unlike verses in a lot of songs which will have often have four repititions of four bars.
#6
There are only 2 notes played at a time, there are no Chords in the piece.

If you hear chords, then it's ur imagination (not in the "imaginary friend" way, but ur inner ear way, based on conventions and ur musical taste , or what's imprinted in ur subconsciousness.

Other people will hear it differently. There are no chords in that piece.

Although I'm not sure, I might have heard triads and above further in the song, but the first section (and the most recognisable one) is definitely counterpoint.

Sure you can imply chords under it, but then your arranging the piece and not Objectively analysing/transcribing the piece.

Problem is, you will probably get people bitch to you, cause ur taking away the essence of the piece.

It's like covering master of puppets on a piano. It can be done, but your taking away the essence of the song.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
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Who's Andy Timmons??
Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 29, 2009,
#7
Quote by Archeo Avis
Music of that complexity cannot be reduced to "chord progressions". Every chord has a function, and it is used whenever that function is called for. You're not going to find a Baroque piece based on a repeating IV-V-I.


youre dumb. even bach played from lead sheets
#8
^You're even dumber. Lead sheets are a twentieth century invention.
Quote by Archeo Avis
Music of that complexity cannot be reduced to "chord progressions". Every chord has a function, and it is used whenever that function is called for. You're not going to find a Baroque piece based on a repeating IV-V-I.
No. You're wrong. How does it feel to be wrong?

Bach's music was tonal (most of it at least), meaning each bar/measure would have had an implied harmony and therefore an implied chord progression. Some of it was contrapuntal modal work though, which would mean very little regard for chord progressions. You can still analyse these songs and pick out chord progressions though.

Also, IV-V is a very common predominant movement, especially in folk music, and V-I/i movements will be apparent in most of bach's work.

I'm not entirely sure if my arrangment is in Em or Gmaj. There's a few people here better then me at analysing classical music, so wait until one of them comes on and corrects my analysis.
The implied harmony for the first bar: Em for 2 beats, F#m (possibly F#mb5) for 1 beat, Bmaj for 1 beat.
Then the next bar is: Amaj for 1 beat, Gmaj (more likely a rootless Em) for 1 beat, F#m for 1 beat and then Em for 1 beat
Then: Dmaj for 1 beat, Gmaj for 1 beat, Amaj for 1 beat, then Bmaj

It's confusing because it could be in either Em or Gmaj. Maybe it modulates in and out of Em and Gmaj (not uncommon), I dont know.

Quote by 12345abcd3
Classical music is, as a whole, a lot less repetitive than modern music.
It's repetitive in a different way. Whilst contemporary music is repeated straight, usually with out any modifications to the repeated phrases, phrases repeated in classical music might begin on a different note or have a few notes changed or resolve on a different notes or whatever.
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Last edited by demonofthenight at Jan 30, 2009,
#9
Bach's music was tonal (most of it at least), meaning each bar/measure would have had an implied harmony and therefore an implied chord progression. Some of it was contrapuntal modal work though, which would mean very little regard for chord progressions. You can still analyse these songs and pick out chord progressions though.


Of course it would. How does this contradict what I said? You won't find repeating clusters of three or four chords, which is what people invariably mean when ask "what is the chord progression for this song".
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#10
Quote by Archeo Avis
Of course it would. How does this contradict what I said? You won't find repeating clusters of three or four chords, which is what people invariably mean when ask "what is the chord progression for this song".
So what? It's still a chord progression.
Maybe T/S is a classical student and was having trouble pinning chords to the peice. Alot of people (most notably me in this thread) have troubly finding implied harmonies.

How about you STFU before you judge the intelligence of someone you don't know.
        ,
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[U]        |/     .-.              [/U]
[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
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#11
Quote by demonofthenight
So what? It's still a chord progression.
Maybe T/S is a classical student and was having trouble pinning chords to the peice. Alot of people (most notably me in this thread) have troubly finding implied harmonies.

How about you STFU before you judge the intelligence of someone you don't know.


I don't recall condescending to him. Please show me where I did. Quote me.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#13
Quote by demonofthenight
^You're even dumber. Lead sheets are a twentieth century invention.No. You're wrong. How does it feel to be wrong?

Bach's music was tonal (most of it at least), meaning each bar/measure would have had an implied harmony and therefore an implied chord progression. Some of it was contrapuntal modal work though, which would mean very little regard for chord progressions. You can still analyse these songs and pick out chord progressions though.

Also, IV-V is a very common predominant movement, especially in folk music, and V-I/i movements will be apparent in most of bach's work.

I'm not entirely sure if my arrangment is in Em or Gmaj. There's a few people here better then me at analysing classical music, so wait until one of them comes on and corrects my analysis.
The implied harmony for the first bar: Em for 2 beats, F#m (possibly F#mb5) for 1 beat, Bmaj for 1 beat.
Then the next bar is: Amaj for 1 beat, Gmaj (more likely a rootless Em) for 1 beat, F#m for 1 beat and then Em for 1 beat
Then: Dmaj for 1 beat, Gmaj for 1 beat, Amaj for 1 beat, then Bmaj

It's confusing because it could be in either Em or Gmaj. Maybe it modulates in and out of Em and Gmaj (not uncommon), I dont know.

It's repetitive in a different way. Whilst contemporary music is repeated straight, usually with out any modifications to the repeated phrases, phrases repeated in classical music might begin on a different note or have a few notes changed or resolve on a different notes or whatever.



Since when is implying actual music.

Of course you can imply it, but there's a reason why bach used single note melodies and not chords in the actual piece. As in what's actually played.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#14
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Since when is implying actual music.

Of course you can imply it, but there's a reason why bach used single note melodies and not chords in the actual piece. As in what's actually played.
The way you write modern melodies, whether you've arranged it with real chords underneath or not, is with chords. The first note of each measure should be a chord tone of the implied harmony. Also, some books/teachers suggest that all non-chord tones must be approached or resolved by stepwise movement (1 or 2 semitones). You still need chords and chord progression when you're writing single lined melodies.

By the way, implied means it's not exactly played. It's implied. Bach might not have had complete triads in his two voice songs, but he had implied harmonies.
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[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
        |
        L.
#15
Quote by demonofthenight
The way you write modern melodies, whether you've arranged it with real chords underneath or not, is with chords. The first note of each measure should be a chord tone of the implied harmony. Also, some books/teachers suggest that all non-chord tones must be approached or resolved by stepwise movement (1 or 2 semitones). You still need chords and chord progression when you're writing single lined melodies.

By the way, implied means it's not exactly played. It's implied. Bach might not have had complete triads in his two voice songs, but he had implied harmonies.



I know I know,

but by adding chords to his piece you change the sound of the piece, which is arranging and not transcribing.

Theoretically the same, but if he made it out of chords and not as counterpoint, then the piece probably was never as famous as it is.

There's more to music then meets the mind.

Something like that anyway

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#16
Quote by xxdarrenxx
I know I know,

but by adding chords to his piece you change the sound of the piece, which is arranging and not transcribing.

Theoretically the same, but if he made it out of chords and not as counterpoint, then the piece probably was never as famous as it is.

There's more to music then meets the mind.

Something like that anyway


The threadstarter didn't ask people to give him chords to play, though (at least, not specifically). They asked for a progression, and you know as well as I do that the piece does have chord progressions, even if every note of each triad isn't played at once.

There are gray areas, (well, perhaps not for people more sophisticated than I) but most of the relationships are fairly clear; the first half is in E minor, cadencing first on E minor but then modulation to the relative major, G... then, in the second half, Bach starts moving through a number of temporary tonal centers using dominants and secondary dominants, and you certainly hear all those temporary dominant to tonic relationships. And, eventually, the whole thing comes back to end in E minor. (I apologize for the horribly vague analysis, but I'm pressed for time at the moment...)


From my understanding, in some cases, the counterpoint will allow the composer to make music that might not make sense on a chord-by-chord basis, but works by the power of the counterpoint... but in this case, the piece can be analyzed fairly easily in terms of tonal progressions.
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