#1
I was at Guitar Center today buying a Pitchblack Tuner and an MXR Carbon Copy (INCREDIBLE INCREDIBLE INCREDIBLE PEDAL!!) and I was saying how everything I buy is analog and true bypass and I am kind of a purist. That is why I have a Keeley Tubescreamer and a RMC Picture Wah. He told me that if I was truly a purist, I should take the circuit board out of my amp and do something with it? I wasn't really listening, I just wanted to get out and play with my new pedal. Can anyone tell me what he was referring to?
My Gear:
Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster
Epiphone Sheraton II
Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue
Teese RMC Picture Wah
MXR Carbon Copy
Keeley Modded TS9
Korg Pitchblack
Schecter Omen 6
Dean Performer Acoustic

#3
remove the circuit board and get an amp tech to handwire you another amp in its place?
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#5
Quote by WlCmToTheJungle
I was at Guitar Center today buying a Pitchblack Tuner and an MXR Carbon Copy (INCREDIBLE INCREDIBLE INCREDIBLE PEDAL!!) and I was saying how everything I buy is analog and true bypass and I am kind of a purist. That is why I have a Keeley Tubescreamer and a RMC Picture Wah. He told me that if I was truly a purist, I should take the circuit board out of my amp and do something with it? I wasn't really listening, I just wanted to get out and play with my new pedal. Can anyone tell me what he was referring to?

He was trying to sell you a MG.
#6
Quote by imicius
He was trying to sell you a MG.

+1

Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#7
its probably what Dave_MC said
MM Stingray
MIA P Bass
MIM Jazz Bass
GK 700RB-II Head
GK 410SBX Cab
Sansamp 3 Ch. DI
Crybaby Bass Wah
Bass Big Muff
DD3 Delay

MIA Strat
Nashville Tele
Martin 00015M
Hot Rod Deluxe
Big Muff
DS1
Hendrix Crybaby Wah
#9
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Way to show everybody up jackass.

Guitar: _______________ Amp:
_ Ibanez SZ320 _________Fender Hot Rod Deluxe

V-Picks!
#10
No, he was talking about wiring your amp point to point. Instead of using a precut PCB with busses etched into it, you wire all the caps, sockets, resistors and pots point to point. It gets a cleaner, truer tone. Most people don't notice. I've heard the Epi Valve jr. wired ptp and it sounds cleaner and louder ptp than breadboarded.

See, to a true purist, everything you gain with true bypass and analog in your pedals is lost in your amps digital PCB. But, most people don't notice the difference enough to spring the insane amount of money on it. So... don't be an elitist about gear purity if you don't understand ptp. Properly: you prefer to not allow your sound to decay with momentary switch circuits, not a purist.

also, if you're a purist, I hope you ain't got poly-film caps in your guitars with import pots and jacks, you best have ceramic or paper-film caps with CTS and switchcraft electronics. (I tease).
Fact: Bears eat beats. Bears beats Battlestar Galactica.
Last edited by Thomme at Jan 30, 2009,
#11
^ pcbs are digital?

Quote by MrCarrot
He was taking the piss.


i was?



well, er, yeah, it was kinda tongue-in-cheek, i guess. but i guess you could do it, right? just gut the amp and put your own hand-wired amp in there?
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jan 30, 2009,
#12
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ pcbs are digital?


i was?



well, er, yeah, it was kinda tongue-in-cheek, i guess. but i guess you could do it, right? just gut the amp and put your own hand-wired amp in there?
I meant the employee
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#13
oh. er, yeah.

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#15
Quote by Thomme
No, he was talking about wiring your amp point to point. Instead of using a precut PCB with busses etched into it, you wire all the caps, sockets, resistors and pots point to point. It gets a cleaner, truer tone. Most people don't notice. I've heard the Epi Valve jr. wired ptp and it sounds cleaner and louder ptp than breadboarded.

See, to a true purist, everything you gain with true bypass and analog in your pedals is lost in your amps digital PCB. But, most people don't notice the difference enough to spring the insane amount of money on it. So... don't be an elitist about gear purity if you don't understand ptp. Properly: you prefer to not allow your sound to decay with momentary switch circuits, not a purist.

also, if you're a purist, I hope you ain't got poly-film caps in your guitars with import pots and jacks, you best have ceramic or paper-film caps with CTS and switchcraft electronics. (I tease).


I agree with you on what you're saying, I just wanted to correct something you said. PCB's aren't digital, mate. A printed circuit board is just a board (usually fibreglass, I believe) with copper traces etched into it. I'm pretty sure you know that already, just wanted to clarify.

Since you seem to know what you're talking about with ptp wiring though, I'll ask you a question. Why would it make an amp cleaner/louder to be wiring point to point? Less signal degradation in the PCB?
#16
Quote by snot_foster25
I agree with you on what you're saying, I just wanted to correct something you said. PCB's aren't digital, mate. A printed circuit board is just a board (usually fibreglass, I believe) with copper traces etched into it. I'm pretty sure you know that already, just wanted to clarify.

Since you seem to know what you're talking about with ptp wiring though, I'll ask you a question. Why would it make an amp cleaner/louder to be wiring point to point? Less signal degradation in the PCB?


i think the vibe with PTP is high quality compontents and less signal loss because the signal path has the most direct route
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#17
Does it make that much of an audible difference? I could understand it being done that way by boutique amp makers and whatnot, but is it one of those things that gets hyped up more than it's worth?
#18
Quote by stevo_epi_SG_wo
i think the vibe with PTP is high quality compontents and less signal loss because the signal path has the most direct route
yeah, PTP very generally means better components, a better layout which means less tone loss because of a shorter route, and also less noise because there's less wiring and it doesn't interfere with itself so much. Oh, and better reliability.
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#19
Quote by stevo_epi_SG_wo
i think the vibe with PTP is high quality compontents and less signal loss because the signal path has the most direct route

bingo. The signal doesn't travel down the busses on the PCB as much. Plus, generally, when you do ptp vs. PCB, you use higher quality components and you get better sound.

No, PCBs aren't necessarily digital. In my post, I made some false statements for the sake of exaggeration. Like, the fact that the GC employee talked about ptp like it was a necessity, by stating that the PCB was digital, it gets lumped in with a Line 6 Spider, even though it's a sweet sounding, amazingly built amp. I'm not saying his amp is like a line 6, I'm saying that that's what the GC employee sounds like at that point.
Fact: Bears eat beats. Bears beats Battlestar Galactica.
#20
Quote by MrCarrot
yeah, PTP very generally means better components, a better layout which means less tone loss because of a shorter route, and also less noise because there's less wiring and it doesn't interfere with itself so much. Oh, and better reliability.

reliability is debatable, easier repairs, though.
Fact: Bears eat beats. Bears beats Battlestar Galactica.
#21
Quote by Thomme
reliability is debatable, easier repairs, though.
Debatable perhaps, but that's coming from the sense that a PTP amp will generally have a higher quality of construction and be less likely to break, and also if you chuck a PCB amp down a flight of stairs the PCB might crack and it'll be broken - whereas if you chuck a true P2P amp down the stairs there's no boards to break ideally, just solder joints and wires/components, which are much stronger. So i'd say they're definitely sturdier and therefore more reliable.
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#22
Quote by MrCarrot
Debatable perhaps, but that's coming from the sense that a PTP amp will generally have a higher quality of construction and be less likely to break, and also if you chuck a PCB amp down a flight of stairs the PCB might crack and it'll be broken - whereas if you chuck a true P2P amp down the stairs there's no boards to break ideally, just solder joints and wires/components, which are much stronger. So i'd say they're definitely sturdier and therefore more reliable.

I can see your side of the arguement. I was thinking PCB vs PTP with equivalent parts. But, yeah, generally, a PCB will use cheaper caps and resistors that are more prone to breakage and shortage. It also depends on what company and where it was made. Like a ptp vox AC30 vs. an older handmade PCB Vox AC30, they're have the same components, but the CC2's will have cheaper components.
Fact: Bears eat beats. Bears beats Battlestar Galactica.
Last edited by Thomme at Jan 30, 2009,
#23
Quote by MrCarrot
Debatable perhaps, but that's coming from the sense that a PTP amp will generally have a higher quality of construction and be less likely to break, and also if you chuck a PCB amp down a flight of stairs the PCB might crack and it'll be broken - whereas if you chuck a true P2P amp down the stairs there's no boards to break ideally, just solder joints and wires/components, which are much stronger. So i'd say they're definitely sturdier and therefore more reliable.


and plus PTP amps are generally much expensive and handwired, so the hand done solder joints are likely to be better quality than a machine and also have higher QC
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#24
Quote by Thomme
I can see your side of the arguement. I was thinking PCB vs PTP with equivalent parts. But, yeah, generally, a PCB will use cheaper caps and resistors that are more prone to breakage and shortage.
yeah definitely, agreed. That's just the thing with P2P... There's nothing amazingly advantageous about a P2P amp tonewise... it's just it generally is indicative of the quality of the amp in general being better

The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.