Poll: Onstage appearence=art, or not
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View poll results: Onstage appearence=art, or not
yes
99 80%
no
24 20%
Voters: 123.
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#1
At my last guitar lesson me and my guitar teacher were discussing the upcoming mayhem tour featuring Slayer and Marilyn Manson.

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy's music, but I asked my guitar teacher why Marilyn Manson has to be suck a freak. Oddly enough, he thinks that his onstage presence is some kind of art.

In my opinion, people go to concerts to see the band perform songs, not see some kind of freak show on stage (Some people may think otherwise). It doesn't really matter what the band looks like as long as their songs are good. When you buy and album, you are listening to the music they make, not somehow seeing what they look like. My guitar teacher disagrees.

The argument went something like this.

Me: I've seen some crazy bands in my time, but whats with Marilyn Manson

Teacher: Its an art dude, your onstage presence is part of the show too.

Me: The man wears makeup and a dress, and pretends he is a woman

Teacher: yes

Me: How is that an art?

Teacher: People put alot of though into how they look onstage dude. Its all part of the show.

Me: Is bands went by that logic, then GWAR is the greatest band in existance

Thats it

Disclaimer: I really don't like GWAR, I'm sure their live shows are awesome, but in my opinion, their songs suck.

So Pit, I am going to ask you, since there is a large sum of people here, and you all must have some opinion. Is a bands onstage presence considered and art, or does it not really matter at all.

Thanks pit,

OK GO!!!

tl;dr:
Is a bands onstage appearance an art of some kind or does it not matter.

edit:
I know of course any band wants to look good onstage, but I mean to the extreme condition,

IE: GWAR, Lordi, Marilyn Manson, and any other band that does weird **** on stage
VERY METAL!
\m/
RIP Ronnie James Dio

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Last edited by RazorTheAwesome at Jan 30, 2009,
#2
It is an art. Everyone who disagrees is a toolbag.
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#4
Depends on the band.
If they feel it adds to their show, then yes. If not, then no. And if they can't decide, then they should have some cake.
#5
It's not an art, anyone who disagrees is a toolbag.
Soon you will sit on the bench
of those who deny I have my soul
You sell a dream you create
Condemned by what you condemned before
Smooth are the words you sing down and high
Underground is your joy your laws
#7
Quote by MightyAl
Depends on the band.
If they feel it adds to their show, then yes. If not, then no. And if they can't decide, then they should have some cake.


I agree with this, cake is the answer to all problems

Quote by uk.mace
Yes it is, but just because it is doesn't make GWAR the 'greatest band in existance'. How did you come up with that?


I really have no idea, I just heard their live shows were crazy as ****, and I've seen what they look like. So yeah, I really don't know.
VERY METAL!
\m/
RIP Ronnie James Dio

Quote by metaldud536
RazorTheAwesome, if I was a Ditto, I'd transform into YOU

Quote by Kensai
Basically god wanted to punish people for getting educated/eating apples.

Quote by Jackal58
We all desire a little pussy.
#9
Quote by MedicreDemon
It's not an art, anyone who disagrees is a toolbag.


HA, I said "everyone" not "anyone".
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#10
I disagree with you, TS.
I buy an album to listen to the music.
I go to a gig for the atmosphere; the music, the volume, the stage presence, the general performance.

Having said that, I wouldn't say stage presence is an art. In some situations it can be, but it's more of just how you conduct yourself on stage and being able to fill the stage. Some people fill it better than others, for example Michael Jackson. How one man himself fills the whole stage with his presence is beyond me and not many people can do that.

So in my opinion, it's essential to a live performance, but it's not necessarily an art.
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#11
Black Sabbath is a very "let's just stand around and let this drunken guy sing stuff, we're so famous it doesn't really matter" band while AC/DC is more of a "ok, the little guy is dancing around in his suit again, that gets the crowd going" kind of band.

It depends.
#12
Quote by Kensai
HA, I said "everyone" not "anyone".

HA, I said "anyone" not "everyone".


Soon you will sit on the bench
of those who deny I have my soul
You sell a dream you create
Condemned by what you condemned before
Smooth are the words you sing down and high
Underground is your joy your laws
#13
Quote by MedicreDemon
HA, I said "anyone" not "everyone".




I'm onto you......
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#14
I know of course any band wants to look good onstage, but I mean to the extreme condition,

IE: GWAR, Lordi, Marilyn Manson, and any other band that does weird **** on stage
VERY METAL!
\m/
RIP Ronnie James Dio

Quote by metaldud536
RazorTheAwesome, if I was a Ditto, I'd transform into YOU

Quote by Kensai
Basically god wanted to punish people for getting educated/eating apples.

Quote by Jackal58
We all desire a little pussy.
#15
if a band sounds good, i don't care what they look like; if i don't like a certain band, there is nothing they can do about their image which would make me enjoy their music better.

the first time i heard sabbath, zeppelin, acdc, queen, gary moore, and all the bands i like, i had no idea of what they looked like.

quality of music > image
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#16
Quote by RazorTheAwesome
Teacher: People put alot of though into how they look onstage dude. Its all part of the show.

Me: Is bands went by that logic, then GWAR is the greatest band in existance

Your bending of other peoples words without any sort of bearing for what they were saying makes me want to cry.

Yes, stage presence is absolutely an art. Its a part of the music and its a part of the statement. Elvis wasn't considered subversive because of his music and lyrics as much as the way he dressed and moved his hips. Pink Floyd developed the concept of the rock stage show with lights, lasers, smoke, etc in order to attain a full auditory and visual experience. GWAR would be a fantastic example of music becoming an act of theater. It is a performance oriented at a certain statement (what that statement is, I have no clue).
BOOM-SHAKALAKALAKA-BOOM-SHAKALAKUNGA
#17
You got some kind of problem with freaks TS? You think you're better than them?

Freaks just might be the wiser than all of the 'normal' people...
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#19
Quote by Tire Me.
"who knew if you covered a bad song it would sound bad? crazy "



It is shockingly terrible...

My point is, though, watch the singer. It's like she's got a bad case of gas or something.
#20
Quote by Kensai
I'm onto you......



I'm on you......
Soon you will sit on the bench
of those who deny I have my soul
You sell a dream you create
Condemned by what you condemned before
Smooth are the words you sing down and high
Underground is your joy your laws
#21
do you want to pay to go to a show just to hear the album you paid for a few weeks before again? no you do not.
you want to see the band perform.
and this includes crazy onstage antics. how could you possibly not like them? it's a whole new take on the music.
...Nothing you've ever...
...Planned on ever turned out...
...The way you planned...


...You're still disappointing them...
#22
People pay money to see bands play live, and it's generally boring if they just stand there doing nothing. A show with a degree of theatricality is usually pretty damn good, unless the band sucks live.
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#23
Quote by MedicreDemon
I'm on you......



Is it getting hot in here guys?!?!?
Quote by shattamakar
The only advantage of home-schooling is that it gives you good reason to commit suicide.


Hit this once or twice, and you'll be twice as nice.
#24
Quote by MedicreDemon
I'm on you......


I'm onto both of you, shut up
VERY METAL!
\m/
RIP Ronnie James Dio

Quote by metaldud536
RazorTheAwesome, if I was a Ditto, I'd transform into YOU

Quote by Kensai
Basically god wanted to punish people for getting educated/eating apples.

Quote by Jackal58
We all desire a little pussy.
#26
Instead of watching movies, why don't you just read the script instead?

In this instance, Marilyn Manson, you have to remember that the guy has a reason for dressing and acting the way he does on stage. Therefore, it is art.
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#28
It makes the show more entertaining, plus Marilyn Manson has good music too

Good Music+Good stage presence = good show
Good music+boring stage presence= im gunna listen to the album in my CD Player
#29
Quote by Cockpuncher 2.0

Good music+boring stage presence= im gunna listen to the album in my CD Player


This doesn't make any sense at all. I can think of bands that don't jump around like mongs yet have ALOT of improv in their set, how is that listening to the CD?
#30
All it takes to have great stage presence is energy. If you play good music and play with a lot of energy and emotion people will get into it at your shows and it will just be fun. If you don't play with energy it doesn't matter how good your music is, I don't want to see you. Also, planning out stage moves and crap before you get out there is completely unnecessary and messes with the flow.
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#31
Quote by Bornlivedie UK
This doesn't make any sense at all. I can think of bands that don't jump around like mongs yet have ALOT of improv in their set, how is that listening to the CD?


Stage presence isn't just jumping about like mongs, you know?
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#32
Quote by StreetLight3989
All it takes to have great stage presence is energy. If you play good music and play with a lot of energy and emotion people will get into it at your shows and it will just be fun. If you don't play with energy it doesn't matter how good your music is, I don't want to see you. Also, planning out stage moves and crap before you get out there is completely unnecessary and messes with the flow.


This guy's got it right

#33
its definitely important, and bands need it, but its not an art


Saying the Red Hot Chili Peppers have no talent is like saying Guy Fawkes didn't have an epic mustache.
#34
I don't like musicians to look like horrendous slobs in ratty jeans and black T shirts. I'm paying to see you, the least you could do is look like you're something special. I don't mean ridiculous costumes are in order or anything, I just want a band to look like they looked at a mirror for more than three seconds before going out.
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#35
Personally, I would go to a concert to watch one person with an instrument stand completely still in dim light playing something if it was interesting. When I go to a concert, what I do most is listen and observe. Energy doesn't neccesarily mean jumping around, energy can be represented in specific phrasing and tones. Obviously it depends on the genre though, I don't expect a 62 year old jazz trombonist to be doing front flips around stage (although it'd be cool). And I suppose metal and headbanging etc are basically fused by now.

It's art if it is unique. GWAR is pretty unique for instance, lol.
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#36
The reason some dedicated musicians try to put on a good live show is for the exact reason you put in your OP, Razor. You buy an album to listen to the music, so why would you go to a show? So the band tries to put on an appealing live show to attract fans to see them live. Guys like Marilyn Manson are partly appealing to their fans, but I imagine they also feel quite strongly about how they appear onstage and care quite a lot about how their live shows look to their fans.
#37
Stage presence is all about expressing yourself so yes it is definitely art.
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#39
I don't think Corpse Paint and spikes and such are necessary for black metal to sound great, but it certainly adds more fun and interest. And many Black Metal artists create their appearance as their own, making it more creative. Also it covers up ugly faces, and adds more emotion. Also, it adds to the theme. When you see Johan Hegg of Amon Amarth with his long hair, beard, and sleeveless shirt, it might not be a huge attempt, but it truly makes it feel more viking. I personally think it's boring to go up on stage with just jeans and a shirt and whatnot.

Some bands like Slipknot and Mushroomhead fail at stage presence, and only use it to distract the horrible sound of their music. You really shouldn't use masks and try to be metal if you're clearly not (masks in almost all bands are gay, except the Berzerker).

And can't wait for Behemoth on Mayhem Tour. Talk about stage presence...
#40
its very much an art would you go see slayer if they all sat on stools ans stared at their fretboard? i bet you would only go once if you did.
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