#1
In one of my songs I based a riff off a certain note patter that seems like it would fit into a scale.

I want to find out what scale that might be.

Here is an example of the note pattern.


e|----------|
B|----------|
G|9-7-6-----|
D|------9-7-|
A|----------|
E|----------|



I know its not the major scale, but it seems similar to it.

*By the way, that is not the actual part of one the songs, just a pattern.

What scale is this? That is the only part of this possible scale that I have, sorry if that makes it harder.

This is only out of curiosity.
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#2
It would fit a great number of scales... it depends entirely upon what that is played over, or at least some indication of the tonal center. Otherwise there is really no help possible.
#3
uhh..
pentatonic?
a pretty exotic sounding version of pentatonic i use.
its A/B.

it looks like ziss.

el------------------------------------6-7-------
bl-------------------------------7-8-----------------
gl-----------------------6-7-9-
dl---------------5-7-9-------
al-------5-7-9----------------
El--7-9---------------------
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#5
Quote by tmfiore
In one of my songs I based a riff off a certain note patter that seems like it would fit into a scale.

I want to find out what scale that might be.

Here is an example of the note pattern.


I know its not the major scale, but it seems similar to it.

*By the way, that is not the actual part of one the songs, just a pattern.

What scale is this? That is the only part of this possible scale that I have, sorry if that makes it harder.

This is only out of curiosity.

It's B minor
Inhuman evil take down!
#6
Thanks anyway guys. It might be easier to say what the scale is once I can get a recording of it. You won't get one for awhile though, my laptop is broken and I don't have a computer to record on.
Quote by user_nameless
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/notfunnyatalljoke.


Quote by halo43
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#7
It all depends on how you are using it, but what you are playing outlines an A major scale. judging from the way you ordered it, i think it is more likely that you are using the E mixolydian mode.
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#8
Quote by Your_Dad
It all depends on how you are using it, but what you are playing outlines an A major scale. judging from the way you ordered it, i think it is more likely that you are using the E mixolydian mode.


The order is completely irrelevant. It's impossible to say with the information given what scale his lick is based on.

TS: What are you playing it over?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#9
Quote by tmfiore
Thanks anyway guys. It might be easier to say what the scale is once I can get a recording of it. You won't get one for awhile though, my laptop is broken and I don't have a computer to record on.

Dude it's B minor. Obvious. Don't worry about all the other ****.
Inhuman evil take down!
#10
Quote by Archeo Avis
The order is completely irrelevant. It's impossible to say with the information given what scale his lick is based on.

TS: What are you playing it over?

I am playing it over a power chord progression of B D G A in Standard Tuning.
Quote by user_nameless
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/notfunnyatalljoke.


Quote by halo43
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#11
Quote by 18th_Angel
Dude it's B minor. Obvious. Don't worry about all the other ****.


Quiet. There is not enough information to conclude that it is B minor with any certainty.

I am playing it over a power chord progression of B D G A in Standard Tuning.


That's a bit ambiguous, so the that you're actually playing it will have a significant effect. From running throughout it on my keyboard, it seems to resolve to G more than anything, but again, how you play it will make a difference. Assuming G is the tonal center, you could call it G major with a #4 thrown in (no need to think of it as modal).
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Feb 1, 2009,
#12
Quote by Archeo Avis
Quiet. There is not enough information to conclude that it is B minor with any certainty.
Yes there is. It's B minor.
Inhuman evil take down!
#13
Quote by Archeo Avis
The order is completely irrelevant. It's impossible to say with the information given what scale his lick is based on.

TS: What are you playing it over?

It is impossible to say FOR SURE what scale his lick is based on, but we can make an educated guess with the information we were given.

The order is not irrelevent because seeing as he started on E I am led to believe he is thinking about E as the tonal center. This means that his scale could either be E Dorian or E mixolydian. I said E mixo because the notes seemed to outline A major. but on second thought, since he said it was not major.

now expanding from that idea, it is much more likely that he is using B minor, for if he had been using E dorian, he would not be using the third, which wouldn't make much sense at all.

And also I've seen you around and am kindly asking you to calm down with your "I-art-holier-than-thou" attitude, people don't appreciate it.

EDIT:
Quote by tmfiore
I am playing it over a power chord progression of B D G A in Standard Tuning.


its B minor.
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Last edited by Your_Dad at Feb 1, 2009,
#15
Quote by 18th_Angel
See. Fools!



epic.
Quote by deadringer13
xjosheex, you have made a simple answer to it all haha


Quote by Pr0gNut
I hope he gets a blood disease and dies alone and screaming.


I mean that in the nicest way possible of course.
#16
Quote by Your_Dad
It is impossible to say FOR SURE what scale his lick is based on, but we can make an educated guess with the information we were given.

The order is not irrelevent because seeing as he started on E I am led to believe he is thinking about E as the tonal center. This means that his scale could either be E Dorian or E mixolydian. I said E mixo because the notes seemed to outline A major. but on second thought, since he said it was not major.

now expanding from that idea, it is much more likely that he is using B minor, for if he had been using E dorian, he would not be using the third, which wouldn't make much sense at all.

And also I've seen you around and am kindly asking you to calm down with your "I-art-holier-than-thou" attitude, people don't appreciate it.


The order of the notes is irrelevant. The tonal center will be determined by the underlying harmony. Assuming the underlying harmony suggests B minor, you would be correct, but you had no such information. With nothing more than five notes, guessing at a key is nothing but baseless speculation, and that's without considering the possibility that one or more of them is a chromatic tone.

Yes there is. It's B minor.


A dogmatic assertion is not evidence.

See. Fools!


Uh...no. You had no reason to conclude that it was B minor.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#17
Quote by Archeo Avis
The order of the notes is irrelevant. The tonal center will be determined by the underlying harmony. Assuming the underlying harmony suggests B minor, you would be correct, but you had no such information. With nothing more than five notes, guessing at a key is nothing but baseless speculation, and that's without considering the possibility that one or more of them is a chromatic tone.


A dogmatic assertion is not evidence.


Uh...no. You had no reason to conclude that it was B minor.

Look you're being an arse about this.The guy asks what scale it is and we tellhim it's B minor, because it is. Do you think if he was playing something highly complicated he'd be asking us? Oh, and key has nothing to do with it. He asked what scale it was. Completely different things. 5 notes out of 7 is more than enough, anyway. If a lick doesn't contain all the notes in a scale then by your logic you can't say what scale it is.

tl;dr OP the scale is B minor
Inhuman evil take down!
#18
Quote by Archeo Avis
Assuming the underlying harmony suggests B minor, you would be correct, but you had no such information. With nothing more than five notes, guessing at a key is nothing but baseless speculation


I clearly stated that what I was saying was no more than a guess based on the given information, or a "baseless speculation" as you so eloquently put it.

So yes, I agree.
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#19
Quote by 18th_Angel
Look you're being an arse about this.The guy asks what scale it is and we tellhim it's B minor, because it is. Do you think if he was playing something highly complicated he'd be asking us? Oh, and key has nothing to do with it. He asked what scale it was. Completely different things. 5 notes out of 7 is more than enough, anyway. If a lick doesn't contain all the notes in a scale then by your logic you can't say what scale it is.

tl;dr OP the scale is B minor


Plenty of people come in here without being able to identify major or minor scales.
Key has everything to do with it, as the key of the song will determine what scale those five notes constitute. Five out of seven notes is most certainly not enough when a tonal center hasn't been established and there is no certainty that every given note actually lies within the scale and is not a chromatic tone.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#20
Quote by Archeo Avis
Plenty of people come in here without being able to identify major or minor scales.
Key has everything to do with it, as the key of the song will determine what scale those five notes constitute. Five out of seven notes is most certainly not enough when a tonal center hasn't been established and there is no certainty that every given note actually lies within the scale and is not a chromatic tone.

But every given note does lie within the scale. These are the only notes he's given us so it'd be ridiculous to assume otherwise. The man asked a simple question, and the answer was quite simple, but you aren't content with that so you keep going on about it. He's obviously playing B minor, especially when you look at the power chords he's using, it's a cliched progression.
Inhuman evil take down!
#21
Quote by 18th_Angel
But every given note does lie within the scale. These are the only notes he's given us so it'd be ridiculous to assume otherwise. The man asked a simple question, and the answer was quite simple, but you aren't content with that so you keep going on about it. He's obviously playing B minor, especially when you look at the power chords he's using, it's a cliched progression.


The powerchords are irrelevant because you answered before he listed them. Don't bring them up. This has nothing to do with my "contentment" and everything to do with giving the TS an honest answer to his question, which was that there simply wasn't enough information to determine what scale he was using. Telling him that it's B minor when there was barely anything to suggest it would either have been flat out wrong, or, even if it was right, would have mislead him into thinking something inaccurate such as that the scale is determined by the order in which you play the notes.

It is not ridiculous to believe that none of the notes could have been chromatic tones, as whether or not any of the notes exist inside or outside of the key would be determined by the underlying harmony, which he had not provided.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#22
Wow, reading this thread makes me feel dumb.

It doesn't matter that much, I was just curious.

Its a punk song anyway, it doesn't stick to one scale the whole song.
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/notfunnyatalljoke.


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#24
Quote by z4twenny
arch, its b minor. let it go dude.


Whether or not it's B minor isn't the point. The point is whether or not you can determine the key of the song from five notes with absolutely no harmonic context.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#25
Quote by Archeo Avis
Whether or not it's B minor isn't the point. The point is whether or not you can determine the key of the song from five notes with absolutely no harmonic context.

It is the point, all he wanted to know is what scale he was using. Key has nothing to do with it.
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#26
Quote by 18th_Angel
It is the point, all he wanted to know is what scale he was using. Key has nothing to do with it.


Key has everything to do with it. The key of the song will determine which scale those notes belong to.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#27
I don't want to enter into the debate please. I just want to talk to the TS...

There's two ways to look at it...

e|----------|
B|----------|
G|9-7-6-----|
D|------9-7-|
A|----------|
E|----------|


Notes= E D C# B A

I find it easier looking from low to high

A B C# D E

One way to think of it would be to examine the step pattern of
- Whole Tone - Whole Tone - Half Tone - Whole Tone. (The half tone is between C# and D).

In the Major scale the Half tones appear after the third and seventh.

So if it is based on the major scale or a relative of it then the C# must be either a third or seventh of the parent scale.

If it is the third then the parent major must be A major.

If C# is the seventh then the parent would be D major.

These are your only two DIATONIC options because of the half step. If one of the notes were an accidental or if it were part of a Dm phrase the B and C# could actually be melodic minor alterations.

Another way to look at it is by looking at the circle of fifths. I want to find a key sig with a C# and natural A B D and E notes.

As I work my way around the first key sig with a C# is D major. The next is A and it has the same notes as D maj including the C# but also contains a G# so we can't rule it out either. Next on the Circle of fifths is E which includes a D# - this and any scale after it are now ruled out. So the parent scale could either be D maj or Amaj.

Of course it does depend on where it resolves. Since you say it is minor then we would look at the relative minors of Dmaj and Amaj.
The Relative Minor of D maj = Bm. The relative minor of A maj = F#m. Since there is no F# used in the lick and it is apparently minor then one would assume it is Bm.

So... the end result will depend on a whole lot of things. You say that what you wrote isn't the actual lick just the notes used. So we don't know what note you are phrasing around etc. - but we do know what notes you are not using. We also don't know where it resolves or what the harmony is doing.

As mentioned it could be Dm with a melodic minor alterations on the B and C#. It could be an E mixolydian/dorian lick - but then that would just be an A or D major parent scale respectively as already established.

Best guess on the info given though would be Bm.

Anyway hopefully you understand the methodology behind the guess and it will help you in future.

Best of Luck.

EDIT: with the powerchords you can add those notes in- B D G A I think the powerchords were. So you can add them plus the fifths to get B F# D G A E. The G and F# complete the puzzle for the A maj scale has a G# not a G. So it is narrowed down to some relative of Dmaj.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Feb 2, 2009,
#28
Quote by 18th_Angel
It is the point, all he wanted to know is what scale he was using. Key has nothing to do with it.



Those 5 notes can be any scale.


I can make a list of at least 15 scales that the notes fit it to.

Scales depend on the tonic.

By ur dumb logic, modes do not exist, because they have the same notes;

C MAjor = C, D, E, F, G, A, B
D Dorian = D, E, F, G, A, B, C
E Phrygian = E, F, G, A, B, C, D

Etc. etc.

So by ur logic they are the same scales, cause you say it doesn't matter what the tonic note it?

You talk BS

/rant

Edit;

That you had it right was luck, but if the progression wasn't what TS listed then you'd fail epic hard, and 100.000.000+ musicians who do have brains would laugh at your ignorance.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Feb 2, 2009,
#29
Quote by 18th_Angel
It is the point, all he wanted to know is what scale he was using. Key has nothing to do with it.


majorly epic fail. everyone seems to have already torn you up on this one, but this post is a paradox, and i just had to comment on that... you can't name a scale without knowing what key it's in, and the notes he provided could be in over a dozen different scales.
#31
Quote by Schism1985
What the **** is everybody fighting about??


Nothing. No one is fighting. The fighting is long over.
Was it really necessary to bump this thread?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.