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#1
Normally, I'd ask DaveMc, but it's a little late for him to be on, so I decided to shoot over here and ask.

I'm looking into getting another amp in the coming days, and I was thinking about getting an Engl Fireball; but a mate suggested that I check out Peavey 6505+ first.

What does UG think?
#2
They're about equal for high gain, but the ENGL has better cleans and is also more distinctive than the Peavey which is so damn generic these days.
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#3
That's what I was thinking. After looking it up some, I've heard that the Engl doesn't cut through in a band situation. Any truth to this?
#4
You must have a bloody loud band for it not to cut through.
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#5
^+1. Unless your drummer is John Bohnam reincarnated and you have five other guitarists, there's no reason the ENGL wouldn't cut through.
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#6
The ENGL will cut through fine. Both are amazing metal amps, but the ENGL has better cleans than the Peavey, and sounds better at lower volumes than the Peavey.

You're in the USA though, so the Peavey will probably be better value for you.
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#7
I didn't mean cut through volume-wise, I just heard it got lost in the mix.

But as for me being in the US, the amps are within £200 of each other, so if one amp is significantly more outstanding than the other, it would be worth the extra £200
#8
I've never heard of a problem with the Fireball cutting through, really just the Powerball. If you're choosing between the 6505+ and a Fireball, you should deffinatly figure out the sound you're looking for. IMO they're two totally different beast, and when putting them side by side, the Engl may sound a little more compressed. Also, if cleans are something you're looking for, I'd say Engl. The only thing I don't like about the Fireball it the joined EQ, but I'm sure that's not big deal once you get use to the amp.
#9
If you EQ it properly, it will NOT get lost in the mix. ENGLs cut through very well. If the ENGL is significantly more outstanding is for you to decide. Do you need an amp that sounds nice at lower volumes? Do you need the improved ENGL cleans? Do you prefer the voicing of the Fireball over the voicing of the 6505?

Try them out, or listen to some clips here:
fireball: http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?value=Engl%20Fireball&section=amp
peavey 6505+: http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?value=Peavey%206505%20+&section=amp

I personaly prefer the ENGLs voicing and versatility but your mileage may vary.
WTLTL 2011
#10
You need to boost mids for a band/live situation... a lot of people seem to cut them.


They're both pretty good high gainers.

The 5150's/6505's are pretty generic, they're used in so many metal bands these days, which isn't a bad thing necessarily, it's just that it does it's job, and does it well, not to mention is reliable.
The other thing is, it has lots of punch and chug.. the distortion can also get very saturated, so it's forgiving if you make any mistakes.


The Engl on the other hand is quite dry and unforgiving, mistakes are quite easy to hear as there's no fizz or saturation for them to hide behind... it's more of a "djent" sound then chug, the clean is pretty good.


They're both very good at what they do, but are both very different "flavours" of sound.

So you'll have to try the amps out to see which you like most.
#11
the peavey is prob a little nicer on the wallet but last i heard micheal romeo played a engl and hes god.
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#12
Quote by Blast For Satan

The Engl on the other hand is quite dry and unforgiving, mistakes are quite easy to hear as there's no fizz or saturation for them to hide behind... it's more of a "djent" sound then chug, the clean is pretty good.

An Engl Fireball dry? What planet are you living on?
#13
Quote by Mark G
If you EQ it properly, it will NOT get lost in the mix. ENGLs cut through very well. If the ENGL is significantly more outstanding is for you to decide. Do you need an amp that sounds nice at lower volumes? Do you need the improved ENGL cleans? Do you prefer the voicing of the Fireball over the voicing of the 6505?

Try them out, or listen to some clips here:
fireball: http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?value=Engl%20Fireball&section=amp
peavey 6505+: http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?value=Peavey%206505%20+&section=amp

I personaly prefer the ENGLs voicing and versatility but your mileage may vary.


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#14
Quote by Evian
I didn't mean cut through volume-wise, I just heard it got lost in the mix.

But as for me being in the US, the amps are within £200 of each other, so if one amp is significantly more outstanding than the other, it would be worth the extra £200
My experience with the Fireball is that it has a very naturally scooped tone. This is where you can run into problems with being heard properly in the mix. Even with the mids dimed on the Fireball it's like having the mids at half on a typical high gain amp. I also felt the Fireball's gain was too smooth for my liking. It was very aggressive, but had more of a soft, rounded attack, rather than a raspy cutting attack if you know what I mean.
It's a very cool amp though, I just prefer a more raw, in your face kind of tone.
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#15
Quote by Blast For Satan
You need to boost mids for a band/live situation... a lot of people seem to cut them.


The Engl on the other hand is quite dry and unforgiving, mistakes are quite easy to hear as there's no fizz or saturation for them to hide behind... it's more of a "djent" sound then chug, the clean is pretty good.

.



This. And he referenced BULB! Honestly, I know the ENGL is better built, sounds better(IMO) and doesn't sound generic.
#16
I will also add that I would love to play a Fireball through a set of V30's because I think it would really benefiet from the added mids and cutting projection that those speaker provide.
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#18
Quote by Van Noord
My experience with the Fireball is that it has a very naturally scooped tone. This is where you can run into problems with being heard properly in the mix. Even with the mids dimed on the Fireball it's like having the mids at half on a typical high gain amp. I also felt the Fireball's gain was too smooth for my liking. It was very aggressive, but had more of a soft, rounded attack, rather than a raspy cutting attack if you know what I mean.
It's a very cool amp though, I just prefer a more raw, in your face kind of tone.


+1 Same experiance with it..
#20
too late...

anyway, it really depends on what you're after- the fireball is more or less cleans + br00talz with not much in-between... 6505 has worse cleans, but better rock tones (i.e. it has rock tones)...

as mark said, peavey is better value if you're in the USA, most likely.

how much are they each?
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#21
I think the Fireball is $1450 and the 6505+ is $1150. (At least where I live)
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#22
Quote by Blast For Satan
You need to boost mids for a band/live situation... a lot of people seem to cut them.


They're both pretty good high gainers.

The 5150's/6505's are pretty generic, they're used in so many metal bands these days, which isn't a bad thing necessarily, it's just that it does it's job, and does it well, not to mention is reliable.
The other thing is, it has lots of punch and chug.. the distortion can also get very saturated, so it's forgiving if you make any mistakes.


The Engl on the other hand is quite dry and unforgiving, mistakes are quite easy to hear as there's no fizz or saturation for them to hide behind... it's more of a "djent" sound then chug, the clean is pretty good.


They're both very good at what they do, but are both very different "flavours" of sound.

So you'll have to try the amps out to see which you like most.



I disagree about the ENGL thing. ENGL Fireballs and Powerballs are best known for their extreme amounts of saturation.
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#23
Quote by Van Noord
I think the Fireball is $1450 and the 6505+ is $1150. (At least where I live)


thanks.

i'd be going for the 6505+ if there's that difference in price (i prefer the 6505 though).

as already said, they're quite different... hard to advice if they can't be tried first.

plus once you get close to the $1500 mark, the soldano avenger and vht deliverance come into play... that's what i'd be getting, personally, assuming the single-channel thing is ok. I've said that before, though, lots of times.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#24
Quote by kayman121
I disagree about the ENGL thing. ENGL Fireballs and Powerballs are best known for their extreme amounts of saturation.

Thank you very much sir. I'd say that djent is more of a technique thing because at one point Bulb used a Dual Rectifier, which isn't known to be the tightest amp ever. I'd say go for a used 6505 or 5150 and a tubescreamer type boost in front.
#25
Well, my situation thus far is this:

I have a Mesa Dual Recto Road King II, which I'm sure most of you know is loaded as far as features go. At this point I'm looking for a relatively simple amp. My RK has the cleans covered, so it's not a huge deal if the amp has mediocre cleans. I'm just looking for a no frills high gain amp.

Of course, when Dave gets into this, he always pushes the price point and recommends the Avenger. The problem with all of these amps is that I pretty much have to buy blind. I have to go by sound clips and word of mouth. There isn't a shop anywhere near where I live that carries these amps.

As far as price goes, the 6505 is $1,200; the Engl is $1,400; the VHT is $1,500, and the Soldano is $1,800.

It seems to me that the Soldano is a little out of my price range, leaving the 6505, VHT, and the ENGL. I have yet to listen to the sound clips, but I will get around to it.

I plan on using this amp with a 7 string, in a live situation, and in the studio.

From what I'm getting, you guys are saying that the ENGL isn't worth the extra $200? It's really not a huge difference for me at this point. If the ENGL is the better amp, It would be worth it. Same for the VHT.

I love bulb by the way.
#26
sorry, last time i checked the avenger was $1500. if it's quite a bit more, then it's probably not worth it.

it's hard to say that either the fireball or the 6505+ is better- i prefer the 6505+, but that might be just because it suits me better.

again, i'd probably prefer the vht (fryette now) to either of those, but i'm a bit wary of recommending vht/fryette over the peavey or engl if you can't try them first, as vhts have a pretty unique tone, which some people love and some people hate...

though on the other hand, with the price issue, you already have a kickass amp- refusing to spend another couple of hundred dollars (which would get you an avenger, or equally allow you the option of stuff like splawn etc.), especially if that couple of hundred might get you a better amp, might be a false economy. the fact that you already have a great amp means that any other amp you buy will likely be tested against the roadking, so if it's not as good as the roadking, that'll be painfully obvious. i'm not saying those amps sound worse than the RK (they sound different, more than anything), but it'd be worth bearing in mind.

spending a little less money for something which you never play (because it doesn't stand up to your other gear) is more a waste of money than spending slightly more money than you meant for something you actually really like; that's my philosophy, though, and it might not be yours. and obviously only you know how badly you need that extra couple of hundred dollars for other things, how willing you are to spend all your spare money on guitar stuff, etc. etc. etc.

just saying what i'd do- take it on board (plus what everyone else is saying) and then make your own mind up... that's the only real way to do it. (i realise how hard it is to buy stuff without trying too, there are loads of things which i'd love to try and don't get the chance to- i haven't come up with a foolproof answer to that dilemma either.)



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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Feb 4, 2009,
#27
Sorry again, but everywhere I've looked, the Avenger in $1,800

Quoted "Soldano Avenger Amplifier Head $1,820.00 - Musicians Friend"

I'm sure its the same price elsewhere. If it isn't, by all means, link me.

Anyways, I listened to the sound clips, and I must say a prefer the ENGL. Although to be fair, I wasn't able to get an idea of the 6505 due to the quality of the recording and mixing being suspect. I recorded a demo with my band using the 5150 and my RK, so I know what it will probably sound like.

As for the VHT, Luke Hoskin from Protest The Hero uses one, and I thought his tone was pretty good live. This obviously isn't the same as playing through the amp, but again, it gives me something to go off of.

I also wouldn't think of this amp being comparable to the RK, because I imagine that the voicings are much different, and I would be using them for completely different sounds.

I guess I'm kind of looking for a tight, crisp rhythm tone, because I find the RK to have a smoother distortion with a rather unique low end.

As far a the price goes, if the extra $300 is really going to get my that much better of an amp, then yeah, I wouldn't mind spending it.
#28
Quote by Evian


As far a the price goes, if the extra $300 is really going to get my that much better of an amp, then yeah, I wouldn't mind spending it.


Well you're going to use the RK cleans, so it really comes down to the peavey and ENGL high gain voicing. Which distortion do you prefer? Thats the one you should get.
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Last edited by Mark G at Feb 4, 2009,
#29
^ yeah, pretty much. really hard to know which you prefer when you can't try them, though.

Quote by Evian
Sorry again, but everywhere I've looked, the Avenger in $1,800

Quoted "Soldano Avenger Amplifier Head $1,820.00 - Musicians Friend"

I'm sure its the same price elsewhere. If it isn't, by all means, link me.

Anyways, I listened to the sound clips, and I must say a prefer the ENGL. Although to be fair, I wasn't able to get an idea of the 6505 due to the quality of the recording and mixing being suspect. I recorded a demo with my band using the 5150 and my RK, so I know what it will probably sound like.

As for the VHT, Luke Hoskin from Protest The Hero uses one, and I thought his tone was pretty good live. This obviously isn't the same as playing through the amp, but again, it gives me something to go off of.

I also wouldn't think of this amp being comparable to the RK, because I imagine that the voicings are much different, and I would be using them for completely different sounds.

I guess I'm kind of looking for a tight, crisp rhythm tone, because I find the RK to have a smoother distortion with a rather unique low end.

As far a the price goes, if the extra $300 is really going to get my that much better of an amp, then yeah, I wouldn't mind spending it.


i didn't mean you were wrong about the price, i meant i was. MF is where i last checked the price, so if it's $1800 there now, then it means it's gone up. sorry about that

it's too hard to say if any of those is better- to me, the soldano is better, but that's because i like it more. it's hard to be sure how much of that is subjective personal preference, and how much of that is objective quality.

engls are pretty tight generally, but the fireball is a little darker/looser-sounding than some of the other engls, perhaps. vht are pretty tight too, but kind of in their own way- you'll hear the terms "dry" and "organic" bandied about about VHTs, but i have no idea how to describe them in any other words, lol. the other slight problem about the vht is it's not the most modern-sounding head i've ever tried (if that's an issue)- i thought it could get to the modern stuff, but might not have been my first choice for it.

i'm probably giving you more questions than answers, but i'm extremely indecisive myself, and also i don't want you to buy something you don't like based on my recommendation.

is there any way you can try the peavey? they're pretty easy to get hold of in the states, i'd have thought, but then again the USA is giant so you just might not be near a dealer...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#30
Quote by shadow__666
They're about equal for high gain, but the ENGL has better cleans and is also more distinctive than the Peavey which is so damn generic these days.

no its not the amp its the EQ....... sheesh, well its mostly the EQ but it has little to do with the amp.
#31
Quote by convictionless
no its not the amp its the EQ....... sheesh, well its mostly the EQ but it has little to do with the amp.
People only think 6505's are "generic" now because they see so many bands using them.
If these people heard three amps without seeing what amps were being used, and one of them was a 6505, they wouldn't even be able to pick out the 6505.
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#32
I listened to some of the recordings of the VHT on the site I was linked to previously, and I think it sounds pretty good.

I guess the best example of the tone I'm looking for off hand is Bulb's rhythm tone. I suppose I'm looking for an amp a bit more exotic than the 6505.

No place around here carries the 6505. They carry Peavey, but not the amp itself
#33
^ do they carry any of the high-end peavey amps? if so, maybe ask them if they could get the 6505 in? though you always run the risk of getting the answer, "sure, if you promise to buy it," which is no help at all.

do you have any youtube link to bulb's rhythm tone which you like?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#36
quick question, is/ does engl have any amps that can do kind of a hot rodded marshall tone?
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#37
I like his tone, but an Invader is way out of my range. Would either the VHT or Fireball get a similar tone?
#38
Quote by edge11
quick question, is/ does engl have any amps that can do kind of a hot rodded marshall tone?


I'd say you should look into splawn for hot rodded marshall tone. Your best bet in the ENGL line would probably be a Blackmore or Savage...

Evian I'd say the fireball can get close, not sure about the VHT.
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#39
^^ i haven't tried the invader, unfortunately. hard to say. the vht can sound a little dark, but whether or not it'd sound similar to that clip... other problem being that clip is on youtube, and for all you know it sounds different in his room...

^ agreed, or the SE (but it's a ton of money).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#40
True. Did you listen to the stuff on his soundclip or myspace? That should give you a better indication of what his tone sounds like.
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