Poll: What are the citizens of the earth?
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View poll results: What are the citizens of the earth?
The citizens of the earth are naturally nice.
41 42%
The citizens of the earth are naturally evil.
56 58%
Voters: 97.
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#1
While stumbling around the internet, I ran into a blog about a mother who was questioning whether people are, at the core of their "soul", inherently evil or inherently good. I thought it would be an interesting conversation to start at the pit.

Basically, are people as a whole (being the citizens of the world) naturally nice or good, or are they naturally evil. And why? Discuss.

Poll up in a sec.

Edit: In the blog I read, the lady was asking how a father could throw his daughter off a bridge. How a mother could kill her 4 year old daughter. And by extension, I suppose how people could justify killing hundreds of people in the name of a god. So I suppose that that would be the definition of evil.

Good: Giving with out questioning, going out of your way to make someone's day better, etc.
GEAR
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Last edited by Weeping_Demon7 at Feb 4, 2009,
#4
Humans are born innocent, it's circumstances that they grow up in that mold them to be stereo-typically good or evil.
#5
Quote by Superstrat101
Humans are born innocent, it's circumstances that they grow up in that mold them to be stereo-typically good or evil.



This.

People are defined by the circumstances in which they live.
#6
Quote by SoWrongItsMatt
People are bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.

woah

edit: looking at the poll makes me not want to vote because it has no middle ground
Last edited by -tempest- at Feb 4, 2009,
#7
Anyone who you view as evil most likely think that they are good

Sure, killing your children is downright sick and twisted, but those parents probably did it because they have no money, aren't fit for being a parent, etc. and had to get away from it. If he didn't, imagine that child growing up with parents like that

And with people getting in wars and killing hundreds of thousands in the name of God, they did it because they were taught that God wanted them to kill them. Your point of view might think its wrong, but if your bible said to go to those extremes (which has been done several times, but I don't think it's mentioned in today's translated bible), then you would think it's part of your morals as well

There is no such thing as good and evil
Last edited by The Shroom420 at Feb 4, 2009,
#8
I can't vote in the poll. I say neutral.
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Hit this once or twice, and you'll be twice as nice.
#9
Quote by Superstrat101
Humans are born innocent, it's circumstances that they grow up in that mold them to be stereo-typically good or evil.



Exactly. Otherwise, Jesus would be impossibre.
#11
Quote by boreamor
Seriously, someone define good and evil

I tried to give the best definition I could.
GEAR
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#12
Quote by boreamor
Seriously, someone define good and evil


You can't there are too many gray areas.
Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who...
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#13
were all evil bastards with bastard flavored souls
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#14
Quote by boreamor
Seriously, someone define good and evil

there is no "defination" at the line between good and evil; its all in context.
#15
''The Only Good Is Knowledge and The Only Evil Is Ignorance'' - Socrates

- They are the only true defining lines of good and evil, anything beyond that is biast opinion.
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#17
Quote by Superstrat101
Humans are born innocent, it's circumstances that they grow up in that mold them to be stereo-typically good or evil.


So you're saying that it's possible to be born and raised with out ever bullying someone or that if there was a utopia somewhere in an isolated island on Earth, that the utopia would be devoid of hurtful nature such as hurtful words and physical violence?

I'd have to say that mankind isn't necessarily evil, but that we are far from being born "good" or "pure and innocent". I mean, before recorded history, there has always been evidence of murder and war. This has to point back to the beginning of man and how he has acted.
GEAR
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#18
Quote by decayingdave
''The Only Good Is Knowledge and The Only Evil Is Ignorance'' - Socrates

- They are the only true defining lines of good and evil, anything beyond that is biast opinion.

Well, in that case most people are inherently evil.


I disagree with that though. Silly Socrates.
#19
Quote by RU Experienced?
Well, in that case most people are inherently evil.


I disagree with that though. Silly Socrates.

That quote makes far more sense in context to his other philosophy though, it's a bit more expansive than you think...

Although he's still wrong
#20
Quote by Superstrat101
Humans are born innocent, it's circumstances that they grow up in that mold them to be stereo-typically good or evil.

No, they're not.

Have you ever seen a bunch of infants in a sandbox? Terrible little creatures. Stealing toys from others, hitting them without reason, etc.

They have no moral basis.
#21
Quote by Craigo
That quote makes far more sense in context to his other philosophy though, it's a bit more expansive than you think...

Although he's still wrong


He's idealism philosophy is wacky.

"There is no example of a perfect circle in the physical realm, yet man can envision it in his mind, therefore the idea of a perfect circle must come from somewhere, therefore that must be the idealist realm."

While he's got some points, it's pretty trippy and I'm not sure if I can agree with him though.

Determinism is another wacky philosophy, but that is entirely off topic.
GEAR
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#22
Define good and evil.

I'd have to go with the neutral element: some are born 'good' and some born 'bad'
We're all different and we're all unique and it's too hard to tie down those terms, so the question is impossible to answer.
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#23
People aren't inherently good or evil. They are who they are. Anyone can choose to be "good" or "evil" and how they are viewed by others doesn't determine their particular alignment. How they view themselves is the deciding factor.
#24
I'd say people are born good, but are very easily corrupted
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#25
Quote by Random88
I'd say people are born good, but are very easily corrupted

To quote Elrond;

"The hearts of men are weak"
I hope it doesn't seem, like I'm young, foolish, and green.
Let me in for a minute, you're not my life but I want you in it


O Dayya, te echaré de menos, siempre

Y siempre
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#26
Quote by Archaon
No, they're not.

Have you ever seen a bunch of infants in a sandbox? Terrible little creatures. Stealing toys from others, hitting them without reason, etc.

They have no moral basis.



Typically there are not infants in sandboxes, but there are toddlers. And one can advocate the fact that infants have had exposure to society and therefore has reflected on there behavior.

Just giving you the opposite side of the argument, I believe essentially the same thing you do.
GEAR
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#27
There is no such thing as good and evil. People make decisions based on the context of the situation and the way they perceive it through their own unique sociological filters. Defining all of humanity as inherently good or evil is pointless.
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#28
Quote by mental_zer0
People aren't inherently good or evil. They are who they are. Anyone can choose to be "good" or "evil" and how they are viewed by others doesn't determine their particular alignment. How they view themselves is the deciding factor.



Well, I'd say then that most people view what they do as justified and at the very least, sane. Hitler belived that what he did was justified. Saddam Huisein belived what he did in the Gulf War was justified. Most of Western justifies what we are doing in the Middle-East, or at the very least, don't agree with the other side.
GEAR
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#29
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
Typically there are not infants in sandboxes, but there are toddlers. And one can advocate the fact that infants have had exposure to society and therefore has reflected on there behavior.

Just giving you the opposite side of the argument, I believe essentially the same thing you do.

I suppose they have had limited exposure to society, but they haven't really absorbed any morals at that stage.

But anyway, the word innocence is a little vague for this topic. Most people see it as meaning good or pure, but really it just means untainted - neither good nor evil. Let's look at Genesis, for example. Adam and Eve were innocent until they ate from "The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil," at which point they lost their innocence. I see innocence as meaning your actions are unmotivated by a moral code, even though they may be seen as good or bad by those that do follow one.
#30
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
He's idealism philosophy is wacky.

"There is no example of a perfect circle in the physical realm, yet man can envision it in his mind, therefore the idea of a perfect circle must come from somewhere, therefore that must be the idealist realm."

While he's got some points, it's pretty trippy and I'm not sure if I can agree with him though.

Determinism is another wacky philosophy, but that is entirely off topic.

Theory of the Forms. It's wacky.

Determinism is the epitome of pure logic though. Not wacky at all )
#31
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
Well, I'd say then that most people view what they do as justified and at the very least, sane. Hitler belived that what he did was justified. Saddam Huisein belived what he did in the Gulf War was justified. Most of Western justifies what we are doing in the Middle-East, or at the very least, don't agree with the other side.

Agreed. True, a large portion of people (if not the majority) view what these examples did as "evil" but that really doesn't/didn't matter to them. As long as they see what they are doing as "good" then what everyone else thinks doesn't make a difference.

Another thing, most people have the capability to change their attitude at any point. If this is true, then it can't be said that anyone is really evil or good. Everyone is just a blank slate, or even better, a blank whiteboard. They write whatever they want on it and it can easily be changed at any time.
#32
Quote by CHIEF-CHEESE
There is no such thing as good and evil. People make decisions based on the context of the situation and the way they perceive it through their own unique sociological filters. Defining all of humanity as inherently good or evil is pointless.

But if something is pointless, dosen't that mean it wastes time?
Wasting time is seen as something that is bad.
But if there is no good and evil, there can be no pointless things, because who says a pointless thing is bad if there is no good or bad?
#33
"All behaviours are learnt via environmental factors throughout life".

Basically, this is the behaviourist theory of psychology where we start off as a "tabula rasa" or "blank slate", and any behaviour we have is learnt by many processes. So any "evil" or "nice" behaviours we have are LEARNT throughout life.

This is what I believe anyway.
#34
You see, they are neither, we are not good or bad, we have no moral basis when we are born, therefore know no difference from good and bad so we can't be good nor bad. If that makes sense.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
#35
Quote by Craigo
Theory of the Forms. It's wacky.

Determinism is the epitome of pure logic though. Not wacky at all )


I didn't use that word correctly.

I agree in determinism with out a doubt. It does seem perfectly possible that every move ever made has had an effect on everything. Somethings you can't control.


These are some great arguments, it's a hard decision to justify wholly either way. But I'm gonna go watch a movie with my dad that we've been wanting to see for a while. Keep up the thread!
GEAR
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Last edited by Weeping_Demon7 at Feb 4, 2009,
#36
Quote by Dance_of_Death
But if something is pointless, dosen't that mean it wastes time?
Wasting time is seen as something that is bad.
But if there is no good and evil, there can be no pointless things, because who says a pointless thing is bad if there is no good or bad?

That's a pretty strained thread of logic right there but something about it makes sense. Gimme a second, I'll get back to you and elaborate.
#37
Quote by mental_zer0

Another thing, most people have the capability to change their attitude at any point. If this is true, then it can't be said that anyone is really evil or good. Everyone is just a blank slate, or even better, a blank whiteboard. They write whatever they want on it and it can easily be changed at any time.

Quote by boreamor
"All behaviours are learnt via environmental factors throughout life".

Basically, this is the behaviourist theory of psychology where we start off as a "tabula rasa" or "blank slate", and any behaviour we have is learnt by many processes. So any "evil" or "nice" behaviours we have are LEARNT throughout life.

This is what I believe anyway.

Are you two descendants of John Locke?
#39
Quote by mental_zer0
That's a pretty strained thread of logic right there but something about it makes sense. Gimme a second, I'll get back to you and elaborate.

I know, i can talk about it easier i just can't type it into words. I'm just trying to say when someone says something is pointless, it implies that you shouldn't waste time on it. And when you waste time, you are seen as bad (lazyness), but if there is no good or bad, then how can you say that wasting time is bad or pointless

I know it's really out there but i'm basically trying to say that his point needs to be consistant.
#40
Quote by boreamor
"All behaviours are learnt via environmental factors throughout life".

Basically, this is the behaviourist theory of psychology where we start off as a "tabula rasa" or "blank slate", and any behaviour we have is learnt by many processes. So any "evil" or "nice" behaviours we have are LEARNT throughout life.

This is what I believe anyway.

Well, genetics has a big part to play in it as well.
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