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#1
We'll after all the compressor talk the past few days... I decided to get one. The store I bought it from is cool with returns on used gear, so If it doesn't work out, I can return it.

I bought a used Rocktron Big Crush for $50.

This is my signal chain...

Guitar>Tuner>Compressor>Wah>OC-3>Metal Muff>Bad Monkey>ISP Decimator>Carbon Copy>Jammman>Amp (Peavy Windsor Studio)>[Loop]MXR 10 Band[loop].

Note: I bought the Windsor Studio because it has a real attenuator built in. Besides it being a tube amp the attenuator is it's key feature for me. I need to be able to play at low volumes. It also has XLR out and the price was right. With the XLR out I can run the post pre-amp signal @ line level right into my midi/audio box.

I was getting frustrated with my thrash tone. I swapped the speaker (Eminence Man-O-War), but I couldn't get a consistent tone using my Metal Muff. Sometimes it was OK but most of the time It was either too buzzy and bright (even with the gain low on the muff and way low on the amp) - or when I tried to bring up the low end, It would get flubbery. No matter what, there was always something missing. I was going to give up, get rid of the pedals and buy a decent tube amp.

I don't have to now. The compressor changed everything. I'd say it's Thrash and Whatever-core's secret weapon

I'm an "OK" player. I hold my own with the songs I know.

The songs that I know front to back are mostly from Slayer, Sabbath, Priest, Di'Anno's Maiden and The Misfits. I played in a gigging band in the late 80"s and early 90's, but all I really knew was really fast barre chords and 30 second songs. I got back into it full force last year and I've progressed a lot. I consider the stuff that I come up with and record Thrash - along the lines of early Metallica, Testament, Death Angel, Exodus, etc. My right hand is getting better, but my picking is inconsistent and my leads suck (getting better tho). The compressor tightened everything up. It makes me sound more accurate. Everything chugs and rings our better, the wah is much more dynamic (before the sweet spot was tiny and right in the middle of the sweep) and the EQ on the OD works better. I've heard the compressor effect described as "punchy" and I can attest to that. It's actually really, really, punchy. Now when I set the attenuator low, and pull back on the volume on the MXR in the loop, my low volume thrash chugs better and tighter than my Cube's R-Fire model. When I kick in the Octave pedal, it's pretty crushing. I can do Deathcore - without a distortion pedal - on my budget gear now.

I'd say for thrash, a compressors usefulness is way up there.

With my amp, (compressor+OD) > (Metal Muff) for thrash tones.

I'm selling the Metal Muff (PM me if you are interested).
Last edited by 667 at Feb 6, 2009,
#2
There's a review section of this website, you know.


You got a nice lot of gear though, and that's a pretty good review - I'm sure it will be accepted on the reviews.
Last edited by CrimsonBizzare at Feb 6, 2009,
#4
i think it merits being posted in here. i was considering a compressor myself, and this sounds really good to me. it is gear after all
Ibanez XPT707 Xiphos
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#5
That's very interesting. A compressor is one pedal I thought I'd never have use for, but I'll have to check it out for higher gain levels.

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#6
I have to agree with your review I just picked up a boss CS-3 the first part of Jan. I love it.

Other than the fact its a little noisy it's a great pedal. I wonder how your hush compares?
If you start a reply with: I have never played one but I have heard good things about it! Your opinion is invalid.
#7
NO!! Not another pedal to buy! Now I want a compressor. We run almost the same setup, Man O War, OD and Metal Muff. I'm gonna be broke by the end of this year

Fractal Axe-Fx Ultra
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#8
Quote by boxcarmonument
I have to agree with your review I just picked up a boss CS-3 the first part of Jan. I love it.

Other than the fact its a little noisy it's a great pedal. I wonder how your hush compares?



I wouldn't know. I was checking out review between the Rocktron and the MXR (I really like MXR's stuff and wanted a smaller pedal) but I couldn't find a used one. The reviews I've read on the Rocktron are mostly positive considering it's price point. The pedal does introduce a little noise, but with my Metal Muff out of the picture, I can actually dial down the threshold on my noise gate (it went from about 1:00 to 11:00) to get it to be dead quiet when I mute the strings - so overall it quieter.

The build quality is top notch, and I like the chicken-head knobs.
Last edited by 667 at Feb 6, 2009,
#10
Quote by mmjohn
the mxr super comp is one sweet pedal............true bypass to boot.


What's the difference between the super and the dyna?
For my application, true bypass is kind of moot..I see this this being on all the time.
#11
So, you have a cheap amp with a cheap distortion pedal and you weren't getting a good tone. So, you throw a cheap compressor in there? Sorry if I'm skeptical of your tone. I wouldn't think a compressor would do anything considering you're running a distortion and an OD pedal, I'd think that would give you all the compression you could want.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#12
Quote by Kevin Saale
So, you have a cheap amp with a cheap distortion pedal and you weren't getting a good tone. So, you throw a cheap compressor in there? Sorry if I'm skeptical of your tone. I wouldn't think a compressor would do anything considering you're running a distortion and an OD pedal, I'd think that would give you all the compression you could want.



This makes you sound like an elitist douche. Your tone isn't anything to write home about either you know. A Mesa and boutique pedals doesn't make up for a completely mediocre and uninspiring technique (yes I'm talking about the crap on your site). I'll take the tone out of my cheap @$$ gear over your very, very weak sounding F-30 any day thank-you-very-much.

And I'm not surprised that you wouldn't think a compressor would do anything because you're not coming off as much of "thinker" in the first place. But if you are having trouble grasping the concept of compression, you really should try it before you knock it.

Way to go Yngvay.
Last edited by 667 at Feb 6, 2009,
#13
Wasn't trying to argue, just pointing out the bad logic you had going, but here we go.

First off, atleast I've put up clips. I didn't use studio quality equipment, just a 10 dollar mic, a cheap laptop and audacity. I think my clips sound just fine considering the equipment I used to record. Also, you'll note, I never claimed that they sound good.

Second, I know exactly what compression is. The fact that you don't realize overdrives and distortion pedals add compression proves you're "not much of a think". I've tried plenty of compressors, and found that I dislike the amount of compression they provide, you lose that airiness/openness. I'm not saying that I don't think a compressor wouldn't do anything, o quite contrary, I think with your setup you'll have much too much compression. To each his own though.

I should also point out, I don't think cheap gear is necessarily bad, but I've never heard a good tone from the windsor studio and the MM is a box of bees, then thrown in a cheap overdrive and I'm no surprised you didn't like your tone.

All I'm saying, if you dislike your tone, it's probably the amp, 9 times out of 10. All the money you've spend on pedals plus the speaker and the amp you could've just gotten yourself a very nice amp to begin with.

BTW, I don't own the F30 anymore.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
Last edited by Kevin Saale at Feb 6, 2009,
#14
Quote by 667
This makes you sound like an elitist douche. Your tone isn't anything to write home about either you know. A Mesa and boutique pedals doesn't make up for a completely mediocre and uninspiring technique (yes I'm talking about the crap on your site). I'll take the tone out of my cheap @$$ gear over your very, very weak sounding F-30 any day thank-you-very-much.

And I'm not surprised that you wouldn't think a compressor would do anything because you're not coming off as much of "thinker" in the first place. But if you are having trouble grasping the concept of compression, you really should try it before you knock it.

Way to go Yngvay.

his comment was rather rude, but lets not get into stupid arguments shall we?
cheers!
and awsome about the compressor men i would like to hear some clips of ur tone.
#15
Quote by 667
This makes you sound like an elitist douche. Your tone isn't anything to write home about either you know. A Mesa and boutique pedals doesn't make up for a completely mediocre and uninspiring technique (yes I'm talking about the crap on your site). I'll take the tone out of my cheap @$$ gear over your very, very weak sounding F-30 any day thank-you-very-much.


Haha, you know what mate. I agree (with the principle of what you are saying). Some of the people I see recommending gear here who post alot/believe they know everything have God-awful tones. If ever I get annoyed at them telling everyone what to buy and what "sucks", I would just have to listen to theirs for a laugh.

I won't name names, but some people with very expensive gear on this site have shockingly bad tones. They speak as if they know all about the inner workings of Laneys and other amps, but it's like.. wait. Listen to yourself. Especially funny when I hear better tones out of Squier guitars and 15 watt starter amps.

---

Back on topic, I agree about a compressor. Over the last few days especially I have been making use of a dynamic compressor for lead and riffing playing, which on top of an already strong tone or two really makes it more professional sounding.
#16
In metal type of things, I never use compressor in rhytm guitars tone. For my playing it compromises the dynamics just too much, especially when doing lot's of palm-muted chugga-chugga stuff.
#17
Quote by Kevin Saale
Wasn't trying to argue, just pointing out the bad logic you had going, but here we go.

First off, atleast I've put up clips. I didn't use studio quality equipment, just a 10 dollar mic, a cheap laptop and audacity. I think my clips sound just fine considering the equipment I used to record. Also, you'll note, I never claimed that they sound good.

Second, I know exactly what compression is. The fact that you don't realize overdrives and distortion pedals add compression proves you're "not much of a think". I've tried plenty of compressors, and found that I dislike the amount of compression they provide, you lose that airiness/openness. I'm not saying that I don't think a compressor wouldn't do anything, o quite contrary, I think with your setup you'll have much too much compression. To each his own though.

I should also point out, I don't think cheap gear is necessarily bad, but I've never heard a good tone from the windsor studio and the MM is a box of bees, then thrown in a cheap overdrive and I'm no surprised you didn't like your tone.

All I'm saying, if you dislike your tone, it's probably the amp, 9 times out of 10. All the money you've spend on pedals plus the speaker and the amp you could've just gotten yourself a very nice amp to begin with.

BTW, I don't own the F30 anymore.


I never said OD/Distortion doesn't add compression. Some do, some just clip. I don't know how the Metal Muff or Bad Monkey work... but it's moot. OD/Distortion and compression are not mutually exclusive from each other. Sure the effect is usually associated with cleans, but if you really understood the physics behind it, then you wouldn't question the benefits.. I'm not looking for "open and airy". I'm trying to sound as heavy as possible with what I have. I don't even like playing clean.

The whole reason for my OP was because my interest peaked about compressors, i wanted to try one, I did, I had a "holy $hit" experience with it and the effect was frigging awesome for me - and I'm reporting back for those who are curious about them. I'm sure others will appreciate the report on my experience with it. It's not a conspiracy to sell compressors.

As far as the tone:$$$ ratio. The amp cost me $300. The OD, cost $40, the speaker $80. That's a total of $420. I'm selling the MM. Everything else I have I'd probably get with my "dream amp" anyway. So, a good attenuator will cost me what? Say $250... so I'm really into it for $170....maybe a $40 loss on the MM..so I'm in the hole $210. How could I have "just gotten myself a very nice amp to begin with" for $210?

Don't bother answering that because I don't care. My $hit sounds awesome.

However you slice it your insulting, skeptical and all around negative attitude is crap.
Last edited by 667 at Feb 6, 2009,
#18
Why would you want an attenuator for heavy metal? For 420 dollars you could've gotten an amp that did metal just fine without an OD. +100 bucks for the isp, +100 bucks for the carbon copy, + 100 bucks for the EQ, hmm that's 700 bucks, definitely could've gotten a good amp for that price.

Throwing pedals at an amp you don't like the tone of is false economy and really only a band aid to the true problem, the amp.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#20
Quote by Titans36
Windsor Studio+Metal Muff+OD+Comp=A Nasty Stew of Gain and Feedback...


That doesn't seem to be a very popular opinion 'round these parts.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#21
Quote by Kevin Saale
That doesn't seem to be a very popular opinion 'round these parts.

I agree but Its my opinion and I know it to be Fact
#22
Quote by Kevin Saale


Throwing pedals at an amp you don't like the tone of is false economy and really only a band aid to the true problem, the amp.


This should be belong in the Good Guitar Tone Bible.
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#23
Quote by Titans36
Windsor Studio+Metal Muff+OD+Comp=A Nasty Stew of Gain and Feedback...


I agree if a person doesn't know how to set them up properly. Metal Muff gain on 8 and OD is a recipe for disaster. But if used in moderation it can produce decent tones. You can't compare it to a nice Hi-Gain Tube Amp but it's not as bad as you may think.

I use my Metal Muff when I need just a little more gain than the VK can deliver and want a little brighter tone. I like my VK, and the cleans and smooth lead tones it produces, but it just doesn't have the br00talz for death metal rhythm playing.

Personally I only use my metal muff for really high gain stuff, death metal pretty much, and even then the gain is on around 5 and the OD is there just to tighten things up a bit. I haven't had any bad experiences with feedback, it has much less feedback than my VK's Lead Channel.

I know it isn't perfect but it sounds fine until I can get my self a nice head, most likely a VH-140C.

Fractal Axe-Fx Ultra
EBMM JP7 Dargies Delight II
Manuel Rodriguez C Cedar Top
Last edited by Necrophagist777 at Feb 6, 2009,
#24
Quote by Kevin Saale
Why would you want an attenuator for heavy metal? For 420 dollars you could've gotten an amp that did metal just fine without an OD. +100 bucks for the isp, +100 bucks for the carbon copy, + 100 bucks for the EQ, hmm that's 700 bucks, definitely could've gotten a good amp for that price.

Throwing pedals at an amp you don't like the tone of is false economy and really only a band aid to the true problem, the amp.


I facepalmed. Sorry bro, but you are a dummy..for real.
/thread
#25
Quote by 667
I facepalmed. Sorry bro, but you are a dummy..for real.
/thread

No, quite honestly, you're the one that's wrong. Everything he's said has been right. Pedals and the like are ways to tweak an already good tone, not ways to make a bad tone good.

People like you frustrate me.
And if you're going to swear, don't act like a twelve year old girl and go @$$. If you're that concerned about what Jesus thinks, you shouldn't be on this forum.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#26
Quote by theoreticmusic
No, quite honestly, you're the one that's wrong. Everything he's said has been right. Pedals and the like are ways to tweak an already good tone, not ways to make a bad tone good.

People like you frustrate me.
And if you're going to swear, don't act like a twelve year old girl and go @$$. If you're that concerned about what Jesus thinks, you shouldn't be on this forum.


Agreed. *goes back to playing dream theater and waits for flamewar*

Fractal Axe-Fx Ultra
EBMM JP7 Dargies Delight II
Manuel Rodriguez C Cedar Top
#27
Quote by theoreticmusic
No, quite honestly, you're the one that's wrong. Everything he's said has been right. Pedals and the like are ways to tweak an already good tone, not ways to make a bad tone good.

People like you frustrate me.
And if you're going to swear, don't act like a twelve year old girl and go @$$. If you're that concerned about what Jesus thinks, you shouldn't be on this forum.


My facepalm was misunderstood.

I facepalmed "why attenuate for Heavy Metal". This is an ignorant statement. I won't even get into his pigeon holing loudness as a prerequisite for playing metal through a tube amp.

If you have to ask "why attenuate", then you really shouldn't be giving advice on tube amps. I'd expect a question like that from a noob, listening to his clips, he might be, but I don't think so.
He also suggests that I can get an awesome high gain tube amp that will replace my pedals - which consist of an analog delay, noise gate and 10 band eq, for what I paid for the price of my gear (around $700). A magic high gain noisless tube amp with built in analog delay and perfect eq ... for less than $700 - and I won't need an attenuator because I play "heavy metal".

Your second paragraph makes absolutely no sense to me champ.

/facepalm.
Last edited by 667 at Feb 7, 2009,
#28
Quote by 667
My facepalm was misunderstood.

I facepalmed "why attenuate for Heavy Metal". This is an ignorant statement. I won't even get into his pigeon holing loudness as a prerequisite for playing metal through a tube amp.

If you have to ask "why attenuate", then you really shouldn't be giving advice on tube amps. I'd expect a question like that from a noob, listening to his ciips, he might be, but I don't think so.
He also suggests that I can get an awesome high gain tube amp that will replace my pedals - which consist of an analog delay, noise gate and 10 band eq, for what I paid for the price of my gear (around $700). A magic high gain noisless tube amp with built in analog delay and perfect eq ... for less than $700 - and I won't need an attenuator because I play "heavy metal".

/facepalm.



right, because good metal distortion doesn't actually come from the preamp tubes or anything...
and those don't really have anything to do with the volume of the amp or anything...
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#29
Good, I mean GOOD metal tone can only be achieved from a nice tube amp (5150 and higher IMO) turned up to a decent level for saturation or a very nice Solid State (VH-140C, H&K Switchblade etc., Randall V2).

Decent metal tones can be had from a pedal if you know what you are doing but they still don't compare to the real thing.

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EBMM JP7 Dargies Delight II
Manuel Rodriguez C Cedar Top
#30
Quote by Necrophagist777
Good, I mean GOOD metal tone can only be achieved from a nice tube amp (5150 and higher IMO) turned up to a decent level for saturation or a very nice Solid State (VH-140C, H&K Switchblade etc., Randall V2).

Decent metal tones can be had from a pedal if you know what you are doing but they still don't compare to the real thing.

Yeah...


See, I'm pretty sure Kevin's point is that the Windsor is just not a great amp, and for the money that he's spending to make it do teh m3t@l could have been spent on a much better metal amp to begin with. But that's just offensive, you know?
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#31
Quote by theoreticmusic
Yeah...


See, I'm pretty sure Kevin's point is that the Windsor is just not a great amp, and for the money that he's spending to make it do teh m3t@l could have been spent on a much better metal amp to begin with. But that's just offensive, you know?


I agree, my VK is fine for thrash but for anything heavier it just can't cut it. And the VK is much higher gain than the windsor. That's why I use my Metal Muff. Not because I get godly tone out of it, but because I have to. And it's been sitting in my closet for the last 3 months so it wasn't like i went out and bought it.

I get some great Post-Hardcore and Dream Theater type lead tones with the VK itself and decent death metal tones from the metal muff, but you can't kid yourself that your getting a Framus Cobra just because your putting a pedal in front of it.

I was a bit of a n00b when I bought my VK so I didn't know about the great stuff I can get for the price used. As soon as I start gigging I'm gonna get a nice Used Head (VH-140C) and Avatar 2x12.

Fractal Axe-Fx Ultra
EBMM JP7 Dargies Delight II
Manuel Rodriguez C Cedar Top
#32
Quote by theoreticmusic
Yeah...
See, I'm pretty sure Kevin's point is that the Windsor is just not a great amp, and for the money that he's spending to make it do teh m3t@l could have been spent on a much better metal amp to begin with. But that's just offensive, you know?


No, you are missing the point. Read the OP before you comment. The tone of my amp was "good" stock. I wanted a tube amp AND and attenuator. I did one mod with the speaker swap and experimented with pedals. The tone has evolved and I'm very happy with it now, and I didn't have to drop 3 bills over the cost of the amp to buy an attenuator.

Also note: it has a XLR out and I don't have to drop another $100 for a mic when I want to bring stuff into my sequencer.

Re-read the OP and think before you post.
Last edited by 667 at Feb 7, 2009,
#33
Quote by 667
No, you are missing the point. Read the OP before you comment. The tone of my amp was "good" stock. I wanted a tube amp AND and attenuator. I did one mod with the speaker swap and experimented with pedals. The tone has evolved and I'm very happy with it now, and I didn't have to drop 3 bills over the cost of the amp to buy an attenuator.

Also note: it has a XLR out and I don't have to drop another $100 for a mic when I want to bring stuff into my sequencer.

Re-read the OP and think before you post.



I did read the OP, and I do think before I post.
That doesn't mean I'll ever think a Windsor is a good metal amp.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#34
Quote by 667
No, you are missing the point. Read the OP before you comment. The tone of my amp was "good" stock. I wanted a tube amp AND and attenuator. I did one mod with the speaker swap and experimented with pedals. The tone has evolved and I'm very happy with it now, and I didn't have to drop 3 bills over the cost of the amp to buy an attenuator.

Also note: it has a XLR out and I don't have to drop another $100 for a mic when I want to bring stuff into my sequencer.

Re-read the OP and think before you post.


You actually liked the tone of the windsor stock for metal?

Fractal Axe-Fx Ultra
EBMM JP7 Dargies Delight II
Manuel Rodriguez C Cedar Top
#35
Quote by Necrophagist777
Good, I mean GOOD metal tone can only be achieved from a nice tube amp (5150 and higher IMO) turned up to a decent level for saturation or a very nice Solid State (VH-140C, H&K Switchblade etc., Randall V2).

Decent metal tones can be had from a pedal if you know what you are doing but they still don't compare to the real thing.

#36
Quote by Necrophagist777
You actually liked the tone of the windsor stock for metal?


No. But I saw it's potential. It did very decent "hard rock" out of the box. The thing with this amp is it's only one channel and sucky cleans (but that's moot). It's biggest problem was the speaker. Who knows what it'll sound like with new tubes... when they blow, I'll find out.
Last edited by 667 at Feb 7, 2009,
#37
Quote by theoreticmusic
I did read the OP, and I do think before I post.
That doesn't mean I'll ever think a Windsor is a good metal amp.


Nobody expected you to and your insight is useless.
#38
Quote by 667
Nobody expected you to and your insight is useless.

No, it's just not what you want to hear. There's a difference.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#39
Quote by theoreticmusic
No, it's just not what you want to hear. There's a difference.


So what you are saying is even though I'm happy with my tone, you still insist on being disparaging to the point - and I don't want to hear it.

Agreed. You are useless.
#40
Quote by 667
So what you are saying is even though I'm happy with my tone, you still insist on being disparaging to the point - and I don't want to hear it.

Agreed. You are useless.

No, what I'm saying is that the Windsor isn't a metal amp. Your head is so far up your ass that people aren't even allowed to disagree with you slightly. I'm glad you think I'm useless for disagreeing. In a similar vein, I think that Alex Lifeson is useless because I don't care for his music.


You see how that works?
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
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