#1
Hello, everyone. Could you please clarify these things for me?

1) When playing over a chord progression, let's say a common C G Am F sequence, what scales do you use?
Do you play in C major all the way, or do you change to the appropriate key for each chord? Or do both of those work? Let's not go into complicated stuff like relative minor.

From what I understand, if you play in C major over all of the chords, you'll be playing different modes, as the root changes with the underlying chord. Is this correct?

2) When you're playing in a specific mode and someone asks you what key you're in, how do you describe it?
Say you're in G Mixolydian. Would you say you're in G major, or in C major? For some reason, I've never heard anyone say the name of the mode they're playing in. When asked for the "key", people only give major or minor, or sometimes don't specify at all.

Thank you in advance
Excuse my ignorance of the subject.
#2
Quote by sashki
Thank you in advance
Excuse my ignorance of the subject.

You're excused....but please read the Mode sticky, and the Theory FAQ sticky.
#3
No modes, it's just C major - don't confuse modes and keys, they're two different ways of looking at music and they don't usually overlap.

You can base your soloing around individual scales for each chord if you want, so C major, G major. A minor, F major. however, that tends to be harder to do and if you're not that experienced you'll likely sound kind of disjointed and awkward. If you want things to sound fluid and coherent you're generally better off sticking to the scale that the key suggests, as you get more comfortable then you can start messing around with accidentals...ultimately just pay attention to what things sound like and how the notes you choose affect the underlying harmony.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
Last edited by steven seagull at Feb 7, 2009,
#4
1) When playing over a chord progression, let's say a common C G Am F sequence, what scales do you use?
Do you play in C major all the way, or do you change to the appropriate key for each chord? Or do both of those work? Let's not go into complicated stuff like relative minor


You would play in C major all the way through (because all of those chords are from C major). The way you would emphasize each chord is to chord tones on the strong beats. So C, E or G on C major, etc.

From what I understand, if you play in C major over all of the chords, you'll be playing different modes, as the root changes with the underlying chord. Is this correct?

2) When you're playing in a specific mode and someone asks you what key you're in, how do you describe it?
Say you're in G Mixolydian. Would you say you're in G major, or in C major? For some reason, I've never heard anyone say the name of the mode they're playing in. When asked for the "key", people only give major or minor, or sometimes don't specify at all.


You'd say what mode you are in. If you don't specify, then you're in "X major". Secondly, if you're asking question one, I doubt you're actually playing modally - although by all means try to.
#5
The problem with sticking to one certain scale (c major here) with all the chords is that it doesnt give you the idea what notes to accentuate when soloing. You need to accentuate the notes in the specific chord that is playing in the background while you are soloing, thats what makes solos sound good, and accentuating those notes is easier if you play with the mindset of using the specific scale of the chord that is playing at that moment of time
#6
^ Well all the chord tones are in that one certain scale (C Major). Pretty much any note in that scale can be justified as some sort of chord tone for any of the chords.


With a stock Major progression, using the 1 scale would be most consistent with common practice. I believe that's what the TS is after.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Feb 7, 2009,
#7
Quote by 1337void
The problem with sticking to one certain scale (c major here) with all the chords is that it doesnt give you the idea what notes to accentuate when soloing. You need to accentuate the notes in the specific chord that is playing in the background while you are soloing, thats what makes solos sound good, and accentuating those notes is easier if you play with the mindset of using the specific scale of the chord that is playing at that moment of time

That's where your shapes come into play...you know the shapes of your scale, you know the shapes of your chords - all you need to do is see where they overlap.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#8
Quote by Freepower

You'd say what mode you are in. If you don't specify, then you're in "X major". Secondly, if you're asking question one, I doubt you're actually playing modally - although by all means try to.

What key is the main theme of John Petrucci's "glasgow kiss" in?
It seems (to me at least) to be based around the E mixolydian mode. If I didn't specify the mode, would it be in A major?
#9
It's considered to be in E. A mode just happens to have the same notes as its relative major scale. Once you know that, you kind of ignore that fact when you use them.

So in practice, E Mixolydian has nothing to do with A major.
#10
Quote by bangoodcharlote


So in practice, E Mixolydian has nothing to do with A major.

Aren't they inversions of one another?

E mixolydian is E F#G# A B C# D
A ionian is A B C# D E F# G#
#11
Quote by sashki
Aren't they inversions of one another?

E mixolydian is E F#G# A B C# D
A ionian is A B C# D E F# G#
E Mixolydian is considered a relative mode of A major. However, you only consider the scale in question when discussing the mode. If you're playing E Mixolydian, you aren't playing A major. It's not that you wouldn't or it won't typically sound good; you can't.

The relationship you describe exists and everyone who knows anything about modes knows that. However, once you're playing a mode, you ignore its relative modes.
#16
Quote by bangoodcharlote
It's considered to be in E. A mode just happens to have the same notes as its relative major scale. Once you know that, you kind of ignore that fact when you use them.

So in practice, E Mixolydian has nothing to do with A major.



Actually it has ALOT to do with A Major. A Major is the parent scale.

There is always more than 1 way to look at things. It can never hurt to have a broad perspective.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Feb 7, 2009,
#17
But not in practice - when it comes to actually playing in E mixolydian you're looking for chords that reinforce the mixolydian characteristics and cement that tonal centre of E, A major has nothing whatsoever to do with. If you start thinking in terms of A major then you'll just end up confusing yourself.

Of course there's more than one way to look at things, that's all modes are - but as far as music goes things are only ever one thing at a time.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
Last edited by steven seagull at Feb 8, 2009,
#18
Quote by sashki
Aren't they inversions of one another?

E mixolydian is E F#G# A B C# D
A ionian is A B C# D E F# G#

To answer your question, yes. Modes are, essentially inversions of scales. Just the same way chords and triads have their inversions.

E Mixolydian starts on the 5th degree of A Major, so you could see it as A Major (5th inversion).

Just the same way as an inverted chord, like C major triad: C E G.
E G C is C major triad (1st inversion).
G C E is C major triad (2nd inversion).
#19
Quote by steven seagull
But not in practice - when it comes to actually playing in E mixolydian you're looking for chords that reinforce the mixolydian characteristics and cement that tonal centre of E, A major has nothing whatsoever to do with. If you start thinking in terms of A major then you'll just end up confusing yourself.

Of course there's more than one way to look at things, that's all modes are - but as far as music goes things are only ever one thing at a time.



A Major has nothing whatsoever to do with E mixo? not true at all. It has ALOT to do with it.

I know where your coming from, but in practice, it's always beneficial to have a broad perspective.


for example:

If you really know A major, then you know all of the chords within it including..... the V chord (E).

If your playing over an E7 vamp, and are aware that your in A Major, and that the chord is E7, it won't really be any different to thinking "im in E mixo". Same scale/notes... same chord tones.

Seeing it both ways gives you a perspective with which you can choose for yourself how to approach it.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Feb 8, 2009,
#20
No no no. You're not getting the point of modes at all. If you are playing over a progression in A major, you are soloing in A major, no matter what chord you are currently playing over. If you are playing over an E chord in an A major progression, you are STILL PLAYING A MAJOR. You are simply emphasizing the E chord, perhaps with an E major arpeggio. But you are still playing in A major because the progression is in the key of A major.

You would use E Mixolydian when soloing over an E major progression with no 7ths in the chord progression. A Progression in the key of E. For example, if you are playing over the E major progression: E major - A major - C# minor, you could use either the E major scale or the E Mixolydian mode. None of these chords have a D# note in them (the 7th of the E major scale), so you could either use the E major scale or the E Mixolydian mode without clashing because since there are no D#s, you can use the D of the E Mixolydian mode in place of the D# of the E major scale. Sounds stupidly simple but will completely change the sound and feel of your soloing.

So remember, you do not use a major scale's relative modes when you are soloing. You are only taught to derive E Mixolydian from A major because it is a simple way to look at where modes came from. That's the ONLY relationship that A major and E Mixolydian have. But because E Mixolydian is E mixolydian, you can only use it over a progression that is in the key of E major that does not have a D# note in it.
Epiphone Les Paul Standard
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
Boss DS-1 Distortion
Boss NS-2 Noise Suppressor
Marshall JCM2000 DSL401
#21
TO sashki...

if you are not totally confused by this thread .. please accept an award of some kind...

your understanding of "modes" will become clear with time...i would stick to the term "scale"

most of the confusion comes with people telling you how to use them...unfortunitatly...time/experience/practice/experimtation will be the only real teachers in this area of "theory"

i could say over an E7 chord i play a backcycled ii7 - V7 (fm7 - Bb7) and make it work ..and in the context I'm thinking of..it does...and that may sound very confusing...as playing "modes" does...but if you learn your theory and practice it..that is use it in songs etc .. the learning curve will take less time...

fast forward...you will look back and wonder what all the confusion was over the major scale...and that "mode" thing..

play well

wolf