#1
So right now I just make drum beats with a drum machine, my roomate (bassist) and I jam as if we're a 3 piece band. I have become increasingly more proficient in jamming in minor and major keys, switching from ex: dorian to mixolydian modes while improvising... to phrase things how I want them to sound. However my roomate doesn't seem to catch on always throwing the jam off. Anyone have any hints at how I could make the smoothest transition between keys and modes ect. and also, any suggestions on how to almost signal my roomate in a way that I'm doing this while in the middle of a jam so that he catches on. What are some ways people who have been jamming together for a long time do this?
We've been practicing quite a bit for about 3 years now, and I know more practice is the key to getting better but any other suggestions?
#3
Query: Are you actually modulating through different modes, or are you just moving up and down the fretboard?
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#4
Example: I will be playing in lets say G dorian or a G minor pentatonic all over the fretboard and then lets say I want to change to a more major sound (thus alter so I switch to G mixolydian or a G major pentatonic, but before I do this should I ease my way into it maybe using some kind of repeating pattern or something to communicate to him that thats what I want to do. I guess I just want to hear what other people do in shifts like this as far as signalling (besides just telling him vocally but speaking with the guitar instead)
#5
Quote by MrOysterhead86
Example: I will be playing in lets say G dorian or a G minor pentatonic all over the fretboard and then lets say I want to change to a more major sound (thus alter so I switch to G mixolydian or a G major pentatonic, but before I do this should I ease my way into it maybe using some kind of repeating pattern or something to communicate to him that thats what I want to do. I guess I just want to hear what other people do in shifts like this as far as signalling (besides just telling him vocally but speaking with the guitar instead)


That will only work if the underlying harmony suggests it. I imagine that's what you're trying to signal to the other guitarist.

Why not just shout it out to him? Or use a hand signal?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Feb 8, 2009,
#6
Not everyone has an ear so wonderful to be able to catch every key change in a jam. I know I've been shouted at and I know I've done my own fair share of shouting. Just bellow the key at him till he catches on.
#7
Result of people using tabs or sheet music only.

If you transcribe, then in jams you will hear when the other musician aka you changes.

But ur not really the person to change it tbh, unless you say that the bassist will change every 32 measures or so to something different.

If I'm with a bass player, I just say play w/e you want and change whenever you want, cause I won't have trouble following.

It must be reasonable though and not changing key every 2 bars (although I Can probably still follow it, it doesn't really "breath"

EDIT: actually 2 bars at 100 bpm or so is very doable now I think of it.

Just tell ur bassplayer to play and change keys when he wants, and you follow. It's more freedom for him, and you will have "the ball" and must use ur ears, which is also good for ur ear.

win - win

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Feb 8, 2009,
#8
Result of people using tabs or sheet music only.


No. The result of poor communication between musicians. Doing...whatever it is you're suggesting they do in place of reading music isn't going to help the rhythm guitarist determine whether the soloist wants a change in harmony, or is just throwing in a few chromatic tones chosen based on the current, underlying harmony.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#9
Quote by Archeo Avis
No. The result of poor communication between musicians. Doing...whatever it is you're suggesting they do in place of reading music isn't going to help the rhythm guitarist determine whether the soloist wants a change in harmony, or is just throwing in a few chromatic tones chosen based on the current, underlying harmony.


Which rhythm guitarist? it's only him and a bass player.

They mean just jamming around.

You mean writing down something?

That's as easy as just writing down the changes on paper

And it's not in the position for the melody guitarist to change the harmony. The drummer leads the rhythm then the bass player, and the soloist on top.

It's near impossible for a soloist to imply harmony changes, unless you play everything in a key that's a semitone higher or lower.

And if you're bassplayer changes whenever he wants to, then just start ur lines on 2nd beats, given that he isn't going to change key in the middle of a bar.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Feb 8, 2009,
#10
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Which rhythm guitarist? it's only him and a bass player.

They mean just jamming around.

You mean writing down something?

That's as easy as just writing down the changes on paper

And it's not in the position for the melody guitarist to change the harmony. The drummer leads the rhythm then the bass player, and the soloist on top.

It's near impossible for a soloist to imply harmony changes, unless you play everything in a key that's a semitone higher or lower.

And if you're bassplayer changes whenever he wants to, then just start ur lines on 2nd beats, given that he isn't going to change key in the middle of a bar.


*sigh*

The TS is asking for a way to signal to the bassist that he is modulating to a different key or mode. Your suggestion was to...stop relying on tabs and notation and, presumably, develop one's ear by transcribing music. What I'm saying is that your suggestion won't work because modulations are more complex than "Oh...he played a B. Time to switch to a new progression.". He needs a way to signal to the rhythm section that he actually intends to modulate, and is not just throwing in a few chromatic tones.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#11
Quote by Archeo Avis
*sigh*

The TS is asking for a way to signal to the bassist that he is modulating to a different key or mode. Your suggestion was to...stop relying on tabs and notation and, presumably, develop one's ear by transcribing music. What I'm saying is that your suggestion won't work because modulations are more complex than "Oh...he played a B. Time to switch to a new progression.". He needs a way to signal to the rhythm section that he actually intends to modulate, and is not just throwing in a few chromatic tones.


But it's not his "job" the harmony doesn't outline the melody.

And this is jamming, it seems pretty logical to just write down bars + key on a piece of paper before the jam?

or just like say it before start jamming?

I'd say let the bass player just play and let him change ever so much bars.

Why does the soloist want to determine in a jam the melody and the harmony? Then it's not a jam, but rather an improvised song/etude of the soloist.

Well ye it's jam, but then it's a pretty 1 sided and predictable jam.

knowing what everyone is going to play is not nearly as exciting as not knowing, but w/e that's just my opinion

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Feb 8, 2009,
#12
I know in most cases its not the job of the soloist's harmonies to determine the melody.....I guess when I'm jamming with people everyone has their input and ability to evolve the song. the drums are the foundation, the bass connects the drums to the rhythm, and the rhythm guides the lead. Its just me a bass and a drum machine, but I swear there's got to be a way to effectively make the lead phrasing influence the melody enough to where it causes the melody to shift. With that thought in mind, then if so, whats the best way to heavily influence the melody into another modulation or key change.

In my opinion these jams are the best ones where anyone can influence the structure of the song, and no one holds a role that is completely set in stone. My roommate is heavily influence by Les Claypool, he plays a lot of lines that could be considered the lead role. So here I feel that Him and I have a fair share of the direction of the structure. And we know when to assume the rhythm and lead when the other person takes over, we are just having a hard time evolving our jams in that sort of way.

To some this probably doesn't make any sense but I appreciate any input either way.
#13
But it's not his "job" the harmony doesn't outline the melody.


It does if they decide it does.
Why is the soloist not allowed to signal a key change? Are you suggesting the the musical SS will fine them for violating some sort of code?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Feb 8, 2009,
#14
Could you give me an example of the soloist signaling a key change? This is a serious question.
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#15
Quote by aetherspear
Could you give me an example of the soloist signaling a key change? This is a serious question.


What do you mean "an example"? An example of how they would do it?
Why is the concept of a lead player saying "Hey guys, I want to modulate to E major now!" so strange?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#16
i can usually tell when a key change is coming up because the other guy is staring at me and doing some wierd head motion haha
#17
Quote by Archeo Avis
What do you mean "an example"? An example of how they would do it?
Why is the concept of a lead player saying "Hey guys, I want to modulate to E major now!" so strange?

You're saying lead players do this while improvising live?
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#18
seriously..
use your head or your feet
designate a special riff
yell at him
look at a clock and change every min or 2 or 3 ect
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#19
Quote by aetherspear
You're saying lead players do this while improvising live?


yep.. when jaming messing around i'm sure they do.
but i'm guessing by live you mean "on stage", in that case probably not but i don't see why they couldn't.
i think it'd be kinda sweet if i didn't know anything about music theory and went to see an artist i was really interested in and they were throwing down some sick stuff and then yelled some crazy words and the sound totally changes and sounds even sweeter.

Edit: sorry for the double post.. i didn't even realize
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