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#1
I was at my cousins house on saturday, drunk after a night out. And i started playing guitar. My cousins step-dad told me i was 'clever' and 'gifted', to which i got into an argument. Somehow we got onto Noel Gallagher and the guitarist from Coldplay.

This guy thought they were the best ever. I told him that i am technically better than them, but will probably never write a song as good. He disagreed saying that they were musical genius'.

He also said that i was 'naturally talented, but not as good as them'.

This especially pissed me off, because he doesn't realise how many hours i've sat practicing to get this 'special talent'.

Does this piss anyone else off, or just me? Non-musicians seem to think people are born with an ability to play, we never get credit for the hard graft we put in.
#2
I tend to avoid such arguments. I class them away in a little file folder that's label "Ginormous waste of my time." I'd advise you to do the same.
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#3
I agree to some extent people that dont play really dont understand how much work it is
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#4
I get the feeling you're fishing for compliments here.

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jthm_guitarist
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#5
Quote by rooster456
I tend to avoid such arguments. I class them away in a little file folder that's label "Ginormous waste of my time." I'd advise you to do the same.

This.

What's up with the Dutch flags in your sig?
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oh yeah? well larry king the slayer guitarist owns bc rich guitars. (i think)
#6
Quote by Green_Jelly
This.

What's up with the Dutch flags in your sig?


Kind hard to make the American one, so just used the colors. I'm thinking about changing it.
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#8
Quote by jthm_guitarist
I get the feeling you're fishing for compliments here.


How can i fish for compliments when i have no published music for ANYONE to listen to? I'm just trying to see if other people don't get credit for the work they put in. If you spent 8 years trying to perfect a craft, and then people basically tell you it's down to your 'natural ability' when you know it's down to 4 hours a day sitting with a metronome would you not be slightly cheesed off?
#9
A Dragonforce fan once told me the following:
1) Herman Li was the best guitarist in the world( Okay, he's good, but I don't think he's the best)
2) Chuck Schuldiner sucked
3) Alexi Laiho can't play for **** live, and it's pure effects in studio (said the DF fan...)


You know what I did? Drink a beer and leave. That's what you should do.
Last edited by LordPino at Feb 9, 2009,
#10
Honestly, it can be a total pain in the ass. I find stuff like that to be almost as annoying as people asking "Oh, so do you play electric or acoustic?" like they're different instruments.
As far as this stuff goes, yes, it takes talent to play. No, it doesn't take years of meticulous metronome practice to play -- but the truth is, this is music to them just as much as whatever you like is music to you.
It sounds like you've got a bit of an ego problem, and until you see music for more than just what you're into -- you're just as much of a problem to musicians as non musicians are to you.
#11
Its kind of a double edged sword here, because a very high percentage of these "non musicians" buy music. People tell me I am good all the time, and I know I suck, but I just say thank you and go on my merry way! It's not worth arguing over.
#13
it amazes me how many people think you're a great musician just because you can make a great song because songs aren't all music is about
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#14
Quote by Widow6
Honestly, it can be a total pain in the ass. I find stuff like that to be almost as annoying as people asking "Oh, so do you play electric or acoustic?" like they're different instruments.
As far as this stuff goes, yes, it takes talent to play. No, it doesn't take years of meticulous metronome practice to play -- but the truth is, this is music to them just as much as whatever you like is music to you.
It sounds like you've got a bit of an ego problem, and until you see music for more than just what you're into -- you're just as much of a problem to musicians as non musicians are to you.


You missed the point completely. I didn't argue with the fact that if i wrote a song he'd hate it, and i also said that i couldn't write a hit single to save my life - they are better musicians than me. My point to this guy was that technically i'm better at guitar than them, they can't sweep, tap, legato, hybrid pick, solo very well....but the fact they make good music people go 'oh he's good at guitar'.
And then although i'm not bad at playing he then puts all my hard work down to 'oh you must have natural talent'.
Last edited by Ikonoklast at Feb 9, 2009,
#15
Yea what steven said, don't argue about music.
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#16
Why on earth did you get into an argument if the man said you were "clever and gifted" at first. They are compliments. Even if he says that you're nearly as good as his favourite guitarists that's a really good compliment as well, no matter who his favourites are.

Just because you know that Noel from Oasis and the guy from Coldplay aren't super technical doesn't mean doesn't mean that he knows that. He's just comparing you to is the best to his knowledge.
#17
Quote by TheQuailman
I never argue about music, never. It's only trouble.


This I used to do this then I realized there is no point
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#18
I'm always being told by people who don't play guitar or drums that i can't play but people who do play tell me I'm getting good so if someone who doesn't play tells you you cant play tell them 2 f*** of then go and play some more especially if that person is into coldplay most bands and singers like that have no musical talent at all anyway.
#19
Quote by Widow6
Honestly, it can be a total pain in the ass. I find stuff like that to be almost as annoying as people asking "Oh, so do you play electric or acoustic?" like they're different instruments.


One of the most ignorant things I've heard all day. Electric and acoustic guitars may be very similar, but it's a whole different technique to play either one.
#20
Quote by Ikonoklast
You missed the point completely. I didn't argue with the fact that if i wrote a song he'd hate it, and i also said that i couldn't write a hit single to save my life - they are better musicians than me. My point to this guy was that technically i'm better at guitar than them, they can't sweep, tap, legato, hybrid pick, solo very well....but the fact they make good music people go 'oh he's good at guitar'.
And then although i'm not bad at playing he then puts all my hard work down to 'oh you must have natural talent'.

I'm actually on the same page as you, I totally agree, and people seem to think you're full of yourself or fishing for compliments which I don't see. Look at it from the perspective of say, a painter, one who has been painting for years and honing their skills. Someone who doesn't know what it's like to be an artist, to put the time and practice in might say something similar to, you're good but you can't paint a picture like Vincent Van Gogh. Firstly, it's all subjective, secondly it's not about how you stand up next to famous musicians, it's how you stand up to the time you've put into your hobby.

I personally am of the belief that technical chops are just as important as the emotion or passion you exude from the music you play, and when the two are combined, that's what music is all about imo.
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#21
Noel Gallagher is a good guitarist. He might not be able to shred (maybe he can, who knows) but his music doesn't require that from him. That would be like saying any blues or classic rock guitarist sucks cause they play slow solos...

If you are a good technical playing guitarist doesn't mean that you are a good guitarist. If you can shred a Dragonforce song as good as Herman Ri or whatever his name is, doesn't mean you are as good as him. Being a good guitarist means you have a good musical understanding. Such as Noel Gallagher being able to hear a melody in his head and crank out a rememberable melody on the guitar. Most "technically" good guitarists will "write" their own songs and just pound out fast and generic amount of shred.

Technique+ Feel + Tone+ ear+ songwriting+ understanding = good guitarist.

That being said, Noel Gallagher has all of that. His technique is good, but his music doesn't require him to shred. He has good rock technique.
Last edited by eurotrashed at Feb 9, 2009,
#22
How the hell did you get into an argument if someone called you gifted and clever?
Cam Sampbell's my hero
#23
Quote by Ikonoklast
You missed the point completely. I didn't argue with the fact that if i wrote a song he'd hate it, and i also said that i couldn't write a hit single to save my life - they are better musicians than me. My point to this guy was that technically i'm better at guitar than them, they can't sweep, tap, legato, hybrid pick, solo very well....but the fact they make good music people go 'oh he's good at guitar'.
And then although i'm not bad at playing he then puts all my hard work down to 'oh you must have natural talent'.


Your a better guitarist than the guys in coldplay

So are half the people on this website, your point?

I think coldplay is terrible, but that guy thinks they are musical geniuses. He probably thinks Necrophagist, The Faceless and Arsis have no talent.

SO WHAT

You should be playing to make yourself happy not to prove you are better than a pop band. Just like you said you can never write a hit single, but why would you want to? Might as well become a rapper if that's what you wanna do.

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#25
If you make music that you are proud of that's all that matters. If your a great tech-death guitarist the casual listener will not appreciate it, just like a Tech-Death player will not appreciate Coldplay. You can't be popular with everyone. As long as you enjoy yourself and give it your best that's all that matters.

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#26
Quote by TheQuailman
If by steven you mean me, I must object. For I am not steven!


Yeah I'm quite sure he does lol I don't know. Both briliant UG'ers I 'spose
#27
Quote by Necrophagist777
If you make music that you are proud of that's all that matters. If your a great tech-death guitarist the casual listener will not appreciate it, just like a Tech-Death player will not appreciate Coldplay. You can't be popular with everyone. As long as you enjoy yourself and give it your best that's all that matters.

In fact, trying to appeal to EVERYBODY's tatses is essentially the definition of selling out, is it not?
#28
[quote="'[VictorinoX"]']In fact, trying to appeal to EVERYBODY's tatses is essentially the definition of selling out, is it not?

My point exactly. Your lucky he thought you were talented. Most of the time I play some dream theater stuff around my friend who likes rap he says it isn't music and that I suck .

AND I'M PLAYING DREAM THEATER!

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#29
Quote by LordPino
Yeah I'm quite sure he does lol I don't know. Both briliant UG'ers I 'spose

Aww.
This is not the first time though. Steven has a quote in his sig that says something about his "duck" avatar. Apperantly people mix up the birds.
#30
Quote by Necrophagist777
My point exactly. Your lucky he thought you were talented. Most of the time I play some dream theater stuff around my friend who likes rap he says it isn't music and that I suck .

AND I'M PLAYING DREAM THEATER!


That's my point though! People who don't know about how much time you've put in to play DT chops (which must be a lot) saying you suck! It's like people degrading all the time and effort you've put in. If you said that to any other person with a hobby who was decent at it they'd be pissed!
The only thing i wanted the guy to know was whatever his opinion on my playing, good or bad, that it wasn't some lack of or natural ability, it was the result of sheer effort, and he totally disagreed, hence the argument.
Last edited by Ikonoklast at Feb 9, 2009,
#31
Quote by TheQuailman
Aww.
This is not the first time though. Steven has a quote in his sig that says something about his "duck" avatar. Apperantly people mix up the birds.


Yeah, I know. Whatever, everyone knows The Quailman > that duckface.:P
Edit: I know, it's a seagull. That's why his name is steven seagull.
Last edited by LordPino at Feb 9, 2009,
#32
Quote by Ikonoklast
That's my point though! People who don't know about how much time you've put in to play DT chops (which must be a lot) saying you suck! It's like people degrading all the time and effort you've put in. If you said that to any other person with a hobby who was decent at it they'd be pissed!
The only thing i wanted the guy to know was whatever his opinion on my playing, good or bad, that it wasn't some lack of or natural ability, it was the result of sheer effort, and he totally disagreed, hence the argument.


Well it wasn't that amazing, it was just Constant Motion, it wasn't at 1 Billion BPM

It gets annoying but you gotta have thick skin and be confident in your abilities.

If you are as good as you say you are then people that matter, people who appreciate talent will admire your skills, and to me those are the only people whose opinion matter.

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#33
Quote by LordPino
Yeah, I know. Whatever, everyone knows The Quailman > that duckface.:P
Edit: I know, it's a seagull. That's why his name is steven seagull.

Well, I already figured you knew the two of us are not one and the same person.
#34
Quote by Necrophagist777
Well it wasn't that amazing, it was just Constant Motion, it wasn't at 1 Billion BPM

It gets annoying but you gotta have thick skin and be confident in your abilities.

If you are as good as you say you are then people that matter, people who appreciate talent will admire your skills, and to me those are the only people whose opinion matter.

True yea.

I'm a million miles from where i want to be, but i think outside strumming chords (which is all old Noel seems to do) i'm probably technically better than him.
Not that i'm better at making music, cause i'm not
Obv some people have a natural ability to pick stuff up quickly, but noone is born with the ability to play an instrument, although some people really really do believe it.
#35
Quote by LordPino
Edit: I know, it's a seagull. That's why his name is steven seagull.



NO ****ING WAY DUDE! I TOTALLY DIDN'T KNOW THAT AT ALL!
#36
Quote by Ikonoklast
True yea.

I'm a million miles from where i want to be, but i think outside strumming chords (which is all old Noel seems to do) i'm probably technically better than him.



Have you actually ever listened to Oasis? Other than Wonderwall?

He has some great rock solos.
#37
Quote by eurotrashed
Have you actually ever listened to Oasis? Other than Wonderwall?

He has some great rock solos.


Being from Manchester, yes, and they're one of my favourite bands.

A) His solos sound the same

B) Technically i could have done them 6 months into playing.

C) Yes, this doesn't make it bad, it just means technically he's not the greatest.
#38
Quote by TheQuailman
Well, I already figured you knew the two of us are not one and the same person.



Quote by TheQuailman
If by steven you mean me, I must object. For I am not steven!



Well, it's hard to forget that you're not Steven when you just posted you and Steven are not the same guy
#40
Quote by TheQuailman
ZING! I got pwned.


I totally screenshotted that. If only I knew how to put it in my sig lolz0r:P
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