#1
With a purchase of my new Fender Twin Reverb, my friend is now jealous of me and im trying to reccomend amps to him. He cannot afford a Twin Reverb RI though. He is looking for a good amp under $1000. We both have played a lot of different amps and he likes fenders and his favorite is the Twin Reverb just like me. So, now its between a deluxe reverb and a Hot Rod Deville. The deluxe reverb has that similar sound to the twin reverb that me and him like. But, its only 1 speaker and 22 watts. He is going to be playing over a drummer and me with the Twin Reverb. He is concerned about not having enough clean headroom on the deluxe. He likes the Hot Rod Deville a lot also, although voiced differently, but likes the Reverb series a little better. The Deluxe Reverb is about the most he is willing to pay. We both like the sound of 12" speakers rather than 10" speakers better, so we're looking at the Deville with the 212, not the 410. So, to sum it up, is the Deluxe Reverb loud enough to play over drums without breaking up? Im going to get an attenunator for my Twin Reverb because its too loud!! But, still love the sound of it.
#2
TL;DR................ get the Deluxe Reverb.
BTW what genres do you play???
PSN USERNAME: MetuulGuitarist7
STEAM:MetuulGuitarist7
Origin:MetuulGuitarist7
feel free to add me
#3
The deluxe should be loud enough, barely. If it isn't find the efficiency of the speaker in it and replace it with a higher efficiency speaker. Or, even cheaper, just turn your amp down and have the drummer play more quietly!
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#4
Don't get an attenuator, they are disguised tone suckers, just learn to play with it at like 2. The twin reverb is supposed to stay clean.

The deluxe reverb is a great amp too. I would reccomend it over a hot rod deville. I had one and i did not like it at all. The distortion channels are a waste.
"The future's uncertain, and The End is always near."
-Jim Morrison
#5
Get a used TR; they frequently go for less then $1000. I, for example, bought one that was converted to a head/cab for $800.

EDIT: Actually, if you could find a used Fender Super Six, you could probably get that for under a grand, and they're amazing.
#7
Quote by SlinkyBlue
Don't get an attenuator, they are disguised tone suckers, just learn to play with it at like 2. The twin reverb is supposed to stay clean.

The deluxe reverb is a great amp too. I would reccomend it over a hot rod deville. I had one and i did not like it at all. The distortion channels are a waste.



+1 The hot rod series is ok if you're on a budget, if you have a grand to spend you should be looking elsewhere.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#8
Quote by imicius
Get a used TR; they frequently go for less then $1000. I, for example, bought one that was converted to a head/cab for $800.

EDIT: Actually, if you could find a used Fender Super Six, you could probably get that for under a grand, and they're amazing.



I'm assuming he wants an amp that he can take back to his house, rather than vice versa. Whoever designed the super 6 obviously also had designs for a teleporter that unfortunately never saw the light of day.
#10
Quote by shoolocomous
I'm assuming he wants an amp that he can take back to his house, rather than vice versa. Whoever designed the super 6 obviously also had designs for a teleporter that unfortunately never saw the light of day.

Hey, it's got casters, you can chain it to the back of a small car and it should be able to pull the weight.

Maybe.
#12
Quote by imicius
Hey, it's got casters, you can chain it to the back of a small car and it should be able to pull the weight.

Maybe.



Maybe. you have to get it outside first. Unless the car is REALLY small.
#13
Quote by makeHIMscene
I play through a Hot Rod 410 model and I love every single loud sound it makes!

Same here. I love my HRD 410
#14
Quote by Kevin Saale
The deluxe should be loud enough, barely. If it isn't find the efficiency of the speaker in it and replace it with a higher efficiency speaker. Or, even cheaper, just turn your amp down and have the drummer play more quietly!

truth. It can't really get over a drummer if it's a hard hitter. But since your looking at the DR anyway, chances are you're playing blues or jazz or something of the sort. High efficiency speaker, tubes that are diesigned to break up later. You should be alright
#15
We play Blues, Jazz, Classic Rock, and Country. And Yes, I agree me or my friend both don't like the OD channel on the HRD. We both have good OD pedals. So, he would just be using the Clean channel on the HRD. So, its the Clean on the HRD versus the clean on the Deluxe Reverb. He likes the Deluxe Reverb the best, but is just concerned about it not having enough CLEAN headroom playing gigs. And of course turning it up or using an OD pedal for overdrive. Also, my friend is looking for a NEW amp, not used. So, im talking about the Deluxe Reverb Reissue. As far as our new band, I am the lead player. So, it is probably good i have the Twin Reverb to cut through the mix. My friend that wants to get the Deluxe Reverb or the HRD, is the Rhythm player for the most part, but plays solos from time to time.
Now, a question about my Twin Reverb. How do you think a Twin Reverb compares to a HRD Deville? Two issues I have about the Twin Reverb. The worst is that its too loud!! Not so much on two but turn it up past that and it is!! But, i think it sounds good on two. Haven't really played it above that, so don't know what it sounds like like on 4 or 5 to compare to 2. My second issue is not getting overdrive from the amp. But, I have good OD pedals that i like like my Keeley modded Tubescreamer. I like the sound of a overdriven tube amp a little bit better. But, you need a low-wattage amp and the trade off is lack of Clean headroom. Plus, overdriving a amp is at high volumes only. Pedals are more versitile in this way. So, the first issue is the major issue i have with the Twin. The weight of the twin is not a big deal, I ll carry it around for the amazing sound!! So, here are my options: Run the Twin at low volume like 2 or 3, get a THD Hotplate Attenunator, or return it and get a Deluxe Reverb. Which of these three options would provide the best sound?
#16
Your rhythm guy should be fine, especially if your mic'd, that's if he goes with the DR.

Second, a 60 watt amp isn't any easier to overdrive than an 85 watt amp, seriously, the difference is negligible.

An attenuator isn't a bad option, but they do suck tone. Personally, I'd grab the DR, every time.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#18
I think my friend will be fine with the Deluxe Reverb. So, my twin reverb, do you think i wouild be better with an attenunator or playing it without one on low volume? The point of the attenunator is to get the amp to the "sweet spot" at lower volume. Is the THD Hotplate good? But, the amp is not bad on 2 without an attenunator. Im trying to get the full potential tone of the amp. But, if a attenunator sucks tone, then what is better?
#19
Yuck no. Attenuators aren't really that great. But if yo do get one, the only one worth it is the Weber one. And Ted is a great guy. Those ones are actually preetty good
#20
I have never had a chance to play the twin reverb on like 5 or so. So, i don't know what it sounds like compared to it on 2. I go the route by just playing on low volume and forgeting the attenunator, then could i change out the tubes to something different so the amp warms out at lower volumes? Im just a little concerned, that my twin reverb will sound too sterile on "2". But, if i put an attenunator on, it sucks tone. So, what gives? what is the best solution to this problem? different tubes? attenunator? Or is it fine to do nothing and play a twin reverb at low volume?
Thanks-
#21
How many power tubes does the amp have? if it has four like I think it does you could always pull two, double the load you run the amp into (IE, if the amp is 4 ohms the speakers should be 8, if the amp is 8 the speakers should be 16) it won't make the amp much quieter, but lower it's headroom a bit.

First thing I'd do though is crank that thing up and make sure that's the tone you're after, you may very well like it better at 2 than at 5.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#22
By lowering the headroom by pulling the tubes, would that make the "sweet spot" occur at lower volume? I am not trying to get it to distort. It dosen't want to. Just trying to hit the warm "spot" at lower volume. Yeah, it has four power tubes. But, I think pulling two of tubes might be bad for the amp?
Thanks-
#23
Yeah, it'll hit that sweet spot a little sooner, but not much. The main draw is you'll save tubes. It won't hurt the amp as long as you double the load on the amp (like I explained in my previous post) if you don't double the load you will hurt the amp.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#24
So, you would have to put in different speakers to double the load?
#25
What are the speakers in it rated for? You might be able to run to only one speaker depending on how they're wired up. I should note though, this will not make that sweet spot come all that quicker, so it may not be worth the trouble.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#26
Lots of questions, don't want to quote them all:

1. Why not buy used? Gear is like a car; if you buy it used, it is significantly cheaper.

2. Attenuators are a viable option. I recommend the Weber MASS 200, simply because it looks pretty sweet. I have not tried it.

3. I play in a jazz band. The other guitarist has a HRD. I really don't understand why people don't like the OD channel; it's really not that bad. I could overpower him in volume, probably, but my amp has only gone past 2 once at a gig; it went to 3. The volume on the HRD is super touchy--he has NEVER gone past 2--so you'll probably have to dial in to him; the TRRI is much easier on the volume scale.

4. I have never gotten the amp past 5 without my ears saying "NO! STOP THAT!" I am planning to do it with earphones this week as the dog will not be in the house, nor will anyone else who has ears (besides me). I would try that before you decide anything.

5. Try the Deluxe Reverb and see if you like it. I did not like it because I am OCD about certain things, and one of them is that I have to have a 3 parameter parametric EQ or I go insane.

6. There are four power tubes IIRC. If you use double the ohmage of the amp's output, you'll halve the volume, allowing you to run it louder. Try using a speaker cab with 8 or 16ohms in it. Keep in mind that it's probably not that great for the power tubes.
#27
Quote by imicius
6. There are four power tubes IIRC. If you use double the ohmage of the amp's output, you'll halve the volume, allowing you to run it louder. Try using a speaker cab with 8 or 16ohms in it. Keep in mind that it's probably not that great for the power tubes.


Absolutely false, while that will be quieter it won't be a lot quieter. I know that pulling tubes (which will halve the wattage) will result in 3db loss in volume. It doesn't damage the tubes either, they actually run cooler if you remove the middle two since there is more space for the heat to escape. Now, if you crank the amp louder you will shorten the life of tubes, but that has nothing to do with pulling tubes.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#28
Quote by Kevin Saale
Absolutely false, while that will be quieter it won't be a lot quieter. I know that pulling tubes (which will halve the wattage) will result in 3db loss in volume. It doesn't damage the tubes either, they actually run cooler if you remove the middle two since there is more space for the heat to escape. Now, if you crank the amp louder you will shorten the life of tubes, but that has nothing to do with pulling tubes.

I was talking about the cabinets. The IIRC was there because since I am not an engineer of any kind, and if there are any on UG, I would expect them to be few and far between, I was simply using deductive logic.

I reasoned that the difference in ohmage would be very significant; if he pulled two tubes and ran a higher ohmage cab from the amp, but after writing out a long paragraph, I realized that my example seemed illogical, so I discarded it.

You would halve the current flowing to the speakers by using a 8ohm (roughly half, 3/8 is pretty close, right?). I don't actually know what the difference is in volume, so I suggest some ear plugs, which, in retrospect would have been easier to type.
#29
When you pull tubes you change the output impedance of the amp (it doubles, can't remember why, something to do with the output transformer) so you double the load on the amp so the amp and cab match.

I understand your logic, it's reasonable to assume, but wattage and volume don't correlate that way. To get double the volume you need ten times the wattage. If you double the wattage you will get 3dbs more volumes (this is all assuming same cab and an amps that all operate exactly the same except for different wattages.)
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
Last edited by Kevin Saale at Feb 9, 2009,
#30
Quote by acdcrocks0323
I would get a silverface Super Reverb. Lower wattage with 4 ten inch speakers that make it a bit more middy. It also breaks up like a dream when pushed really hard.


Yeah, only one problem. Even if you get it used, it's around $1800.

But they sound SOOOO good
Quote by acdcrocks0323
Quote by mcrfobtai
I have a Pro Junior.
Almost the same thing. Sort of.

But I do love BJ's. Great amps.
Everyone likes BJ's.


EVERYONE!!!!
#31
It is 8 ohm on the twin. So, it would be 16 ohms if you pulled two of the power tubes. How much attenuation would you need to play the amp on "5" but on the same volume level as "2"? Would it be a lot? Also, my main question was, is this amp really that bad to just play on low volumes like "2"? And i agree that the volume knob on the deville is very touchy, much more touchy than the twin. And yes ive played a deluxe reverb. Its a killer amp, but there a few things i think that make the twin better imo:
1. The Twin has a mid knob on both channels for more control of the EQ while the deluxe dosen't.
2. The Twin is more powerful and has infinite Clean Headroom! But, this is also one of the twins downfalls. You can't get it to break up and it is too loud to turn it up.

But, overall it was a hard decision. But, the twin having more control of the EQ and lots of clean headroom was the reason i went with the twin over the deluxe. One other question, is the EQ on the amp and on the guitar plus the tone knobs on your pedals all you really need for the EQ? They make EQ pedals. Are these more of an "effect" or do they actually do something?
Thanks-
#32
FIND OUT HOW IT SOUNDS AT 5. Seriously, you said it sounds fine at 2, so why bother cranking it?
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#33
Cuz it probably sounds warmer at 5. I just got this amp new, so fresh from the factory. Should i look into changing out the tubes to something different or biasing the amp? Also, EQ. Is just using the EQ on the amp and guitar usually fine? What is the point of an EQ pedal?
Thanks-
#34
You can always build/buy a volume box to place in your effects loop. I have used one on my HRD410 to get power tube saturation without blowing my ears. This is NOT an attenuator. If you put it between your amp and speaker, it will damage your amp. It just lowers the preamp input. It also tames the volume knob on the HRD. For some reason, Fender put a linear pot on the volume rather than the customary audio taper pot. It makes it very touchy in the low range. The volume knob in the effects loop helps.

It is nothing more than a 100K audio taper pot connected to two 1/4 inch jacks in a project box. I even put a chicken head knob on mine to match the amp.

There's a simple schematic here.
#35
^That will not give you power tube saturation, it will give you preamp tube saturation.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#36
Quote by al112987
Deluxe Reverb is just a sick amp, the HRD doesn't even compare imo.


+1.


Plus, the deluxe reverb RI doesn't break up very much. It has massive clean headroom for a 22 watt amp.
#38
^That will not give you power tube saturation, it will give you preamp tube saturation.

Correct. I did not say it would. Sorry if that was misunderstood.
#39
Quote by MT in Austin
You can always build/buy a volume box to place in your effects loop. I have used one on my HRD410 to get power tube saturation without blowing my ears. This is NOT an attenuator. If you put it between your amp and speaker, it will damage your amp. It just lowers the preamp input. It also tames the volume knob on the HRD. For some reason, Fender put a linear pot on the volume rather than the customary audio taper pot. It makes it very touchy in the low range. The volume knob in the effects loop helps.

It is nothing more than a 100K audio taper pot connected to two 1/4 inch jacks in a project box. I even put a chicken head knob on mine to match the amp.

There's a simple schematic here.


Actually, you did
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#40
Deluxe Reverb, any day, this is like comparing a MG100 to Vox AC15. You get more wattage, but at a loss of tone, just tell him to get a mic.
Quote by chip46
"I'm discontinuing production on the Timmy now as well. It might come back into production at some point down the road, but probably not because people will just clone it anyway cause they're stupid jerk face doo doo heads. -Paul C."