#1
Could anyone explain the theory behind this chord progression:

A7b5 Dm7 Bb7 Gm11 A7sus2 A7 Dm7 Bb7 Gm11

It's the underlying chords in example 16 from Petrucci's Rock Dicipline.
I understand the soloing perfectly fine, but is there a theoretic explanation that these chords go well together?

Much appreciated.
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#2
This is exactly what I wanted to figure out thanks for making a thread.
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#3
you know what key the piece is in? then we could work out the chord relationships to each other
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#4
I Checked the vid;

key is D minor.

Dm7 - Bb7 - Gm11 - A7(sus2)

translates into;

i - VI7 - iv - V7.

The 2nd chord (VI7, Bb7) is an altered M7 chord in the minor key which makes it from M7 a dominant 7th chord.

The 4th chord (V7, A7) is a secondary dominant. Learn Jazz theory too find out how this works.

The A7sus2 is just for colouring.

The A7b5 at the beginning is an altered V chord into a V7b5 (half diminished)


Jazz is not my strongest point, so if any MT-er can elaborate on this, thank you.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Feb 11, 2009,
#5
Thank you very much. I figured it would be in Dm but the A7 threw me off.
Kudos to you good sir.
Quote by thsrayas
Why did women get multiple orgasms instead of men? I want a river of semen flowing out of my room to mark my territory.

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#6
Quote by 7even
Thank you very much. I figured it would be in Dm but the A7 threw me off.
Kudos to you good sir.



It threw me off as well, but when I Watched the vid I heard it was a "run-up" to the Dm7.

Anyways np

Anyways it's a jazz/fusion progression, but still more jazz, although Petrucci's solo over it is ambiguous between the two styles.

Kudo's for you for bringing a cool thread in MT other then all the regular questions which are answered in the sticky

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Feb 10, 2009,
#7
Ah great.
But you said the Bb7 was the secondary dominant, but didn't you mean the A7 leading into the Dm7?
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- John Coltrane
#8
Quote by 7even
Ah great.
But you said the Bb7 was the secondary dominant, but didn't you mean the A7 leading into the Dm7?


Ah yes ur right.

Still I want to know how you call changing the subdominant from the relative major key (F Major) into a dominant.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Feb 11, 2009,
#9
how do you figure out which chords are in a key?
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#11
The A7 is not a secondary dominant. A secondary dominant is when you use the dominant of another chord other than the tonic (so the chord the V7 resolves back to) that chord is treated as the tonic, however it's tonicization not modulation as it tends to happen in one bar. However the chord it's the secondary dominant of doesn't need to be present (as it's still what it should resolve to).
The key is D minor, but D harmonic minor is used to construct the fifth chord, A7... this is why the harmonic minor is used, as A7 resolves to Dm7 a lot stronger than Am7 would.
xxdarrenxx suggested the Bb7 was the subdominant from the relative major changed into a dominant 7th. However writing out the notes from Bb7 gives: Bb D F Ab
which is not in D minor... however Em7b5 is, E G# Bb D
The notes are enharmonic. Considering this would make the progression Em7b5, Gm11, A7, Dm7,or - ii vi V7 i is a much more likely progression. An extended, but not unusual minor ii-V-i.
#12
Quote by Sam_Vimes
The A7 is not a secondary dominant. A secondary dominant is when you use the dominant of another chord other than the tonic (so the chord the V7 resolves back to) that chord is treated as the tonic, however it's tonicization not modulation as it tends to happen in one bar. However the chord it's the secondary dominant of doesn't need to be present (as it's still what it should resolve to).
The key is D minor, but D harmonic minor is used to construct the fifth chord, A7... this is why the harmonic minor is used, as A7 resolves to Dm7 a lot stronger than Am7 would.
xxdarrenxx suggested the Bb7 was the subdominant from the relative major changed into a dominant 7th. However writing out the notes from Bb7 gives: Bb D F Ab
which is not in D minor... however Em7b5 is, E G# Bb D
The notes are enharmonic. Considering this would make the progression Em7b5, Gm11, A7, Dm7,or - ii vi V7 i is a much more likely progression. An extended, but not unusual minor ii-V-i.


You're right about the secondary dominant bit, but you can't just say that a Bb7 is an Em7b5

They both serve the same function as a predominant, but the Bb7 is a tritone sub that resolves to V. That's all. And, just to be a nitpicker, the Gm11 is iv, not vi
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#13
Ah, I do stand corrected. vi was a typo, but clearly I need to hit the books again, especially as I had secondary dominants on the mind earlier in the post.
#14
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Please read the theory link in my sig.

ah! I understand now thanks!
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#15
Quote by psychodelia
You're right about the secondary dominant bit, but you can't just say that a Bb7 is an Em7b5

They both serve the same function as a predominant, but the Bb7 is a tritone sub that resolves to V. That's all. And, just to be a nitpicker, the Gm11 is iv, not vi



Yer, and the progression is in the key of D minor.

If you look into a soloing perspective, I'm pretty sure the progression is built like it's built in order to give more note choices.

I knew the 4th chord was Harmonic minor convention, I did not know however if this was shared with a secondary dominant.

EDIT; so a secondary dominant chord can be exchanged for any chord EXCEPT the tonic (which is dm7)?

For example; in the key of C; secondary dominant of Em = B7 ?


And on the 4th chord; Do you just call this a "harmonic minor convention", or is there another term for this?

I'd like too know, so I know for the future.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Feb 12, 2009,