#1
I tried to look for the appropriate thread to ask this question but I couldn't find it [granted, I didn't look very hard ]

Anyway, I saw some girl on youtube play a classical piece called Dee and I thought it sounded wicked, so I decided to learn it. What I discovered is that it's a piece that was written by Rhoads when he was studying "classical" music. So obviously there was a reason behind every note he played and I can only assume there was buttloads of theory required to write Dee. Usually when I learn songs, I learn them the way that's most comfortable. By most comfortable I mean things like ... slouched posture, thumb wrapped around the neck umm . ..I dunno, I just don't follow any particular rules when I play/learn a song. Furthermore, I neglect to learn the theory behind what I'm playing/learning.

My question: Will it be detrimental to my playing if I learn a piece like Dee without abiding by appropriate classical technique? If you understand me. Is it bad that I'm playing it in a liberal fashion? Because I have this predisposition that classical music follows a strict set of rules, and it's really "full on". Other than something like punk, which just has a "WHATEVA **** it!" kind of attitude.

also, I'm learning it on a steel string acoustic guitar.
#2
Follow the rules.
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#3
^ not necessarily...

I'd say Dee is more about fingerpicking technique than pure music theory. I'd make sure I know a little about that, as well as unusual chords (anything outside power- or open-chords).
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Wasn't there a thread about this like yesterday?
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#4
A friend of mine taught me Dee note by note a long time ago and it's one of my favorite songs to play. I'm pretty poor with theory, but I don't think just learning the song would be detrimental.
I don't know how important the rules are if you can make it sound right and transition smoothly; seems like just a different technique for the same outcome... I don't know, maybe if you learned it with all the rules, it will sound/feel better in the end?
I definitely agree with tickler about the fingerpicking technique. This song is a good chance to develop/improve it.
I've never learned the theory behind any songs that I've learned, but I'm thinking that I should start.
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#5
Randy Rhoads is actually an exception with the amount of theory he had for Rock/popular guitar.

It seems less and less that mainstream guitar requires theory. It's more about catch chops.

so.... If you want to be the best guitarist you can be because that's what you like... then learnin it correctly.....

If you just want to impress friends when they are over on Fridays for a beer, you can shortcut it a bit....

That my opinion.... nothing more.... as in all things, you already know what you are going to do .... you're just looking for the justification to do it.
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#6
Milez, how do you know if you're doing it the correct way? Or what is the correct way given that the notes are the same? I know that some songs have a kind of shortcut version that doesn't sound quite the same as the soundtrack, but I don't know if that's what you meant.
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#7
I think I remember Paul Gilbert saying somehting along the lines of "As long as it sounds good, play it."

rumor has it that guy is pretty good.
#8
Correct way... ? Well.. I guess that takes a bit of faith on the part of the tabs on site doesn't it. LOL.

I'm currently relearning Black Mountain Side, (I haven't attempted it since the early 90's)
On all the sites, I keep coming accross the EXACT same tab.. I know it's been stolen back and forth several times... and I swear, ... to my ear.. it's not quite right... I've studied some video lessons on Youtube, and I can clearly see two distinct ways of playing it, that both sound really good. The only way I'd ever know 100% for sure what's right is ask Jimmy Page himself.

You can't do that with Randy, so.. trust in the tabs as far as they can take you... maybe research the scales he's using if you can dig that up... and trust your ear as well.....

One thing for certain, I don't know any musician that can play extremly complex peices note for note everytime, so don't set yourself up for failure by thinking you'll achieve that.

This is a personal technique.. and I'm by no means a Randy ... but I find project songs like this come together better in small bits. Learn the first several bars, practise them over a week inbetween other stuff your playing. Once you have that down smoothly.. go for another bite sized peice.... That's what works for me. ... .. other players go into some kind of tunnel vision until they master a peice... whatever works for you ....
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Last edited by Milez5858 at Feb 11, 2009,
#9
The "bite-sized" pieces technique is exactly how I learned Dee! Most of my other songs too actually... I guess the more I improve, the larger bites I can take and the less time it takes to chew them. Definitely good advice.
Yeah, Randy was on some other level of genius. On that studio Dee track, it almost seemed like he was just making it up as he went along.
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#10
Quote by Milez5858
That my opinion.... nothing more.... as in all things, you already know what you are going to do .... you're just looking for the justification to do it.


ooh, you got me

The thing is, if all of you replied by saying, "learn it the classical way, with an understanding of thoery and classical technique" I probably wouldn't be able to. I think learning it that way is only attainable if I had a tutor or instructor, and I can't afford one. I guess I really was just looking for the justification to learn it the way I want to, be it through short cuts or whatever.

Quote by Milez5858
Correct way... ? Well.. I guess that takes a bit of faith on the part of the tabs on site doesn't it. LOL.

trust in the tabs as far as they can take you... maybe research the scales he's using if you can dig that up... and trust your ear as well...


Knowing where the notes of the song lie on the fretboard isn't really the issue though. The tabs I've seen aren't entirely accurate, so I haven't been relying on tabs to learn the song. Heck! there's even a Youtube tutorial on how to play this song note for note, but I found that that TOO was inaccurate. So what I have been doing is studying youtube clips of people playing the song really well and also the Dee Studio outtakes thing.

yeah, so knowing where the notes are isn't really what I'm fussed about, but rather which fingers to use to fret each note and why. And also understand why I'm fretting this note and not that note. Why should the harmonic be played here and not there? As I understand it [in classical music] there's a reason behind everything. I would kind of like to KNOW what these reasons are but as I said earlier, I can't find that out by myself, I would need a teacher.

Quote by Milez5858
One thing for certain, I don't know any musician that can play extremly complex peices note for note everytime, so don't set yourself up for failure by thinking you'll achieve that.

good advice, thank you. I've been listening to the studio outakes version of the song a LOT lately, and even Randy screwed up a couple of parts in the song. It's kind of a relief. Yknow? He is human after all?

Quote by Milez5858

This is a personal technique.. and I'm by no means a Randy ... but I find project songs like this come together better in small bits. Learn the first several bars, practise them over a week inbetween other stuff your playing. Once you have that down smoothly.. go for another bite sized peice.... That's what works for me. ... .. other players go into some kind of tunnel vision until they master a peice... whatever works for you ....


also good advice. I am taking it a bit at a time. When people here that the song only lasts for 50 odd seconds, they think it must be a piece of cake to learn. Granted ...its not the hardest song to learn but it's definitely a little more complicated than the standard fingerpicking tune.

Quote by ToalNOOB
I think I remember Paul Gilbert saying somehting along the lines of "As long as it sounds good, play it."

rumor has it that guy is pretty good.


thats all well and good. But you can play something that sounds good but you may be using poor technique. Then when trying to move on to something else you'll find that the poor technique that you developed when playing THAT peice has disadvantaged you when playing THIS piece. Do you know what I'm saying? Having it sound good is really only okay if you have only 1 song to your name.
Last edited by flea's trumpet at Feb 11, 2009,
#11
If you want to learn it, learn it. It's great that you want to learn a classical piece. Dee is relatively easy compared to most classical pieces, and doesn't require "bucketloads of theory" to understand.

As a side note, there is a lick in Dee which is mirrored in the Crazy Train verse. This indicates that Randy is awesome.
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