#1
so i just finished reading this book

SPOLIER ALERT!!!!!!!!


heres what i make of the rather open ending (a great ending imo)
so the wathcmen are faced with a challenging decision of either fighting adrian vedt who just killed half of new york or keeping quiet to further his plans to "unite the world" most of them eventually agree. the world is a much different place now, no war yayyy!!! its supposed to at first seam to the reader that the world is a utopia and everything has resolved itself, but with the clever use of symbolism and themes Alan Moore shows that is not the case. to start off let me run through the characters:

the smiley face (yes not a character but significant): someone on yahoo answers said that the smiley face represents the mentality of the reagan era 80s, the care free optomistic, well nuke your ass bull**** basically. it is fitting that it is shown at the end of the story because it is saying that allthough there is no threat of war that mentality still exists and its stronger than ever.

Adrian Vedt (sp?): he represents the intellectuals and pseudo intellectuals who put themselves above the rest of the human race and thinks only in terms of the ends of things. he knows whats best for the human race in his mind and he will do anything to achieve his goal, without realizing the bloodshed he leaves in his path. In a way he over thinks things so much that he oversimplifies them so he can fit his head around them. I love how he is shut down by probably the best line in the entire book "nothing ever ends Adrian"

Laurie Juzspezik (sp?): she has probably changed the most of any of the characters in the stories. througout the story she is someone who stands up for what she believe is right and says what is on her mind all the time. but by the end of the story she has seen so much killing and death that she just kind of gives up. the turning point for her is when she shoots Adrian and he catches the bullet, at this point she realizes that she cannot stop evil, and hey, this evil isnt so bad is it? at the end of the story she is shown, hair dyed blond, with Drieberg (hair also blonde) and she has taken the name of a dead man. she has become a fake basically, she has become care-free unlike her former self. in a way she has turned into her mother (remember her mother trying to justify her own rape?). and i think the scene after she leaves and her mother starts kissing the photograph is very significant it A)shows Lauries future, an empty life with a botox smile to cover up all the dirty secrets B)shows the absence of real people in the world. The Comedian was a murderer, a rapist, and an overall bad person, but he was real, he didnt sugar coat anything, he saw the world for what it was, the way he reacted to this is a different story.

Rorschach: he is the one character that stays static throughout the entire story, from the time he brings the knife down on the dogs head (and becomes rorschach) to his death. at first it paints him as a black and white, cowboy justice kind of guy, and he is brutal about it too. however he is the only character who fights for what he believe in until the very end, allthough his logic may be flawed at times, his morals, unlike the others, are not flexible. When he gets vaporized by Jon it is his finest hour in a way and its a way for him to go out showing his character in a good light. he is saying "id rather die than live your lie" he is dying on his feet rather than living on his knees. Him and Adrian Vedt are polar opposites, Rorschach's death almost represents the death of the "kill the rooskies, kill them all" mentality that Moore hoped to see possibly, but at what cost? in his death Moore is almost playing with his own morals in showing that sometimes its GOOD to think in black and white because there are some situations that call for it. He of course lives on through his journal which is picked up by a newspaper editor at the end.

Jon (dr. Manhattan): Jon is an ass, its made quite clear in chapter 4. he is like Adrian in that he puts himself over the human race but unlike him he doesn't intend to do anything about it, he doesn't give a **** about anyone basically. He just wants to leave the human race and chill in another galaxy, the reason he kills rorschach is because rorschach stands in the way of that dream basically. If he allows Rorschach to live than he might tell the world of Adrians evils and basically start WWIII again, this would make Jon feel a twinge of guilt seeing as Laurie would be in harms way, by doing what he did he allowed the world to be somewhat peaceful for long enough that he can leave and not have to worry about human problems any longer. He knows that peace wont last forever as he cleverly tells Adrian, but frankly, he doesnt give a ****.
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#3
the movie is going to turn an amazing book into a dumb ass fad like the joker. thats why im trying to get all my watchmen fanboy-sim out of my system now.
The Mitch Clem formula
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2)make obvious punk puns, possibly related to food
3)make fun of Rancid and NOFX again
4)??????
5)PROFIT (and an army of internet fanboys)
#4
great book/ending, but there's no way I'm reading all that.
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#5
The movie looks ****ing ****e
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#6
tl;dr but Watchmen, not The Watchmen
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#7
Yeah the book is great and I'm excited for the movie even if it probably wont be as good.

My interpretation is that the the smiley face represents innocence, the blood splatter creates a contrast to this. Specifically I think the ending gives you the option to decide for yourself if it is morally right to sacrifice a few to save many; however it communicates that truth is absolute and that lies represent the ultimate loss of innocence.
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#8
it was a good book, but the movies gonna turn int into a hot topic fad like the dark knight
we'll see rorscharch t- shirts galore
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#9
I agree with your analysis except for the part concerning Jon.

I don't consider him an ass - yes, it's true that he doesn't care about the human race, but how could he? He's not human. We would be ants to him. Do you care if a million ants die? Although during the main course of the book, and at the end, he seems to be uninterested in our affairs, he seems to say otherwise during his conversation with Laurie on Mars. The fact that he resolves to leave at the very end shows that he does in fact care very much. He doesn't want to burden us with his presence anymore.
#10
Quote by greatone_12
Yeah the book is great and I'm excited for the movie even if it probably wont be as good.

My interpretation is that the the smiley face represents innocence, the blood splatter creates a contrast to this. Specifically I think the ending gives you the option to decide for yourself if it is morally right to sacrifice a few to save many; however it communicates that truth is absolute and that lies represent the ultimate loss of innocence.

another great interpretation. Alan Moore makes the "utopia" seem very fishy with use of symbolism and i think that kinda shows that he doesn't believe that sacrificing large quantities of people is ever justified but maybe im wrong. i always saw the smiley with the blood as people with blood on their hands but there are many theories about that. the ending also poses the question "is it better to live a lie than to not live at all?" i personally dont think so, put in the position i would do what rorschach did.


Quote by ShredGod George
it was a good book, but the movies gonna turn int into a hot topic fad like the dark knight
we'll see rorscharch t- shirts galore

ugH!!! the worst thing about this post is that its true.

Quote by Shamwich
I agree with your analysis except for the part concerning Jon.

I don't consider him an ass - yes, it's true that he doesn't care about the human race, but how could he? He's not human. We would be ants to him. Do you care if a million ants die? Although during the main course of the book, and at the end, he seems to be uninterested in our affairs, he seems to say otherwise during his conversation with Laurie on Mars. The fact that he resolves to leave at the very end shows that he does in fact care very much. He doesn't want to burden us with his presence anymore.

but he was human, he spent the first 20 odd years of his life no different from anyone, so he knows what its like to see things from our perspective, but he still doesnt give a ****. in a way he reminds me of people of UG "100000000 children dead, who cares, not my problem"

he leaves because he wants to find a place "less complicated" and by killing rorschach he feels he is saving his soul (whats left of it) from the burden of the entire world being destroyed, so yes he does care a little bit. but not much
The Mitch Clem formula
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2)make obvious punk puns, possibly related to food
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4)??????
5)PROFIT (and an army of internet fanboys)
Last edited by Fuzzbox91 at Feb 11, 2009,
#11
I also love the GN, but like others I'm not gonna read all that.

On to the commenting on the movie I really don't think it's gonna be a dark knight fad type film. I also think it's gonna be good though, and the stupid people who nit pick at all the little details annoy me. It seems people don't get that what looks good on paper doesn't look good on film if it's exactly the same.
#12
To be honest, if the movie is anything like the GN, it will fail epically. What I mean is that the GN was win incarnate but the story and characters are so deep that those going in won't understand it. Its been marketed as a superhero movie, and I don't really think it is one per se. That said, I'm not very happy with casting either, JE Haley being the exception. Laurie's become a bimbo, Jon's a whiner, Nte Owl is as well. And Veidt? He's a straight up f*g.
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#13
Quote by Fuzzbox91
the movie is going to turn an amazing book into a dumb ass fad like the joker. thats why im trying to get all my watchmen fanboy-sim out of my system now.


You ruined my day.

EDIT:
Quote by ShredGod George
it was a good book, but the movies gonna turn int into a hot topic fad like the dark knight
we'll see rorscharch t- shirts galore

This too
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Last edited by Rust_in_Peace34 at Feb 12, 2009,
#14
I find your analysis of Manhattan to be somewhat myopic.


I've always viewed the ending as a commentary on utilitarianism.
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#15
Quote by Thrasher51
To be honest, if the movie is anything like the GN, it will fail epically. What I mean is that the GN was win incarnate but the story and characters are so deep that those going in won't understand it. Its been marketed as a superhero movie, and I don't really think it is one per se. That said, I'm not very happy with casting either, JE Haley being the exception. Laurie's become a bimbo, Jon's a whiner, Nte Owl is as well. And Veidt? He's a straight up f*g.

but theyve always been that way
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#16
I've heard so much hype over this, and I still don't know. What the fuck is Watchmen?
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#17
The TS post makes some good points, but that's now how I interpreted the story at all.


For one, the movie ends with the "unified the world" aspect, but remember that final panel. The guy at the New Frontiersman looked to use Rorschach's journal for his article. If he used all of the info, he could piece together that Veidt had been planning something, and that something big went down in Antarctica attributed to Veidt.

That one, simple newspaper worker could turn everything on its head.


THAT, imo, is the true genius of the ending. That is the most exciting and open ended part of it.


Also, some of your views on the characters aren't as I see them, but it's not my place to critique your views.
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#18
Quote by CTFOD
I've heard so much hype over this, and I still don't know. What the fuck is Watchmen?

Gtfo.
Please excuse my godawful username. I was thirteen.
#19
i saw a preview for it over lost last night. the main line was "youve never seen superheroes like this before"

i dont like that theyre playing up the superhero part. the book is all about the humanity of the characters, not their superheroness. i have a feeling its gonna be way too glamorous and over the top.
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I have no opinion on this matter.
#20
Quote by fallenangel20
The TS post makes some good points, but that's now how I interpreted the story at all.


For one, the movie ends with the "unified the world" aspect, but remember that final panel. The guy at the New Frontiersman looked to use Rorschach's journal for his article. If he used all of the info, he could piece together that Veidt had been planning something, and that something big went down in Antarctica attributed to Veidt.

That one, simple newspaper worker could turn everything on its head.


THAT, imo, is the true genius of the ending. That is the most exciting and open ended part of it.


Also, some of your views on the characters aren't as I see them, but it's not my place to critique your views.


no go ahead and give your own views, thats what the ending of the book is for.

i think "the united world" thing is a temporary solution to a much bigger problem
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#21
Ha, alright.

SPOILERS

Veidt: I agree with everything, really. Can't argue much.

Laurie: I see where you're coming from, with her changing personality, to an extent. She did change a lot, but I wouldn't say she changed into her mother. I mean, if you went to Mars, had a glowing blue man explain life to you, and then see half a city be annihilated by a giant squid, you would change, too. She really just became REALLY scared by life, and, IMO, just stopped caring about so much. Truth and realization can do a lot for stress levels.

Also, the main reason for changing her appearance was to make sure she wasn't recognized by the public. After the "incident" in Antarctica, Dan and Laurie couldn't just go back as themselves, they had to hide out, and, sadly, fake their own deaths to avoid any kind of connection to Veidt, if anything came up. They took Hollis' name out of respect to the man Dreidberg looked up to all of his life, and followed in his footsteps.

And, yes, the Comedian was a bad person, and you're right about him being real, but, in Laurie's current state, she's able to let the past be the past, and live happily for a change, and not worry about it. Again, leaving all of the stress behind.

Rorschach: I agree with you here, too.

Dr. Manhattan: I agree with why he killed Rorschach, but I don't think he's as apathetic as you make him out to be. He certainly WAS apathetic, to an extent, at the beginning of the book. But, after his trip to Mars, and talking with Laurie thereafter, he takes human life into account more. If it WASN'T for the trip to Mars, he probably would have let Rorschach go, and maybe even teleported him back to New York. He would have done anything to make sure justice was served.

Remember earlier in the book, he let JFK die. He let The Comedian kill his Vietnamese lover. There were plenty of things in his past that I see that would have let him just let Rorschach walk, and let him turn in Veidt.

But, that trip to Mars changed it all. He started respecting life. Respecting the things that made them comfortable, rather than just what was just. Also, when talking to Veidt about human life, he says, "Yes, I think I'll go create some" (not an exact quote). He doesn't want to desert humanity, he's leaving to CREATE humanity, and, presumably, cherish it even more.


That's just my take on it all, though.
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#22
Quote by fallenangel20
Ha, alright.

SPOILERS

Veidt: I agree with everything, really. Can't argue much.

Laurie: I see where you're coming from, with her changing personality, to an extent. She did change a lot, but I wouldn't say she changed into her mother. I mean, if you went to Mars, had a glowing blue man explain life to you, and then see half a city be annihilated by a giant squid, you would change, too. She really just became REALLY scared by life, and, IMO, just stopped caring about so much. Truth and realization can do a lot for stress levels.

Also, the main reason for changing her appearance was to make sure she wasn't recognized by the public. After the "incident" in Antarctica, Dan and Laurie couldn't just go back as themselves, they had to hide out, and, sadly, fake their own deaths to avoid any kind of connection to Veidt, if anything came up. They took Hollis' name out of respect to the man Dreidberg looked up to all of his life, and followed in his footsteps.

And, yes, the Comedian was a bad person, and you're right about him being real, but, in Laurie's current state, she's able to let the past be the past, and live happily for a change, and not worry about it. Again, leaving all of the stress behind.

Rorschach: I agree with you here, too.

Dr. Manhattan: I agree with why he killed Rorschach, but I don't think he's as apathetic as you make him out to be. He certainly WAS apathetic, to an extent, at the beginning of the book. But, after his trip to Mars, and talking with Laurie thereafter, he takes human life into account more. If it WASN'T for the trip to Mars, he probably would have let Rorschach go, and maybe even teleported him back to New York. He would have done anything to make sure justice was served.

Remember earlier in the book, he let JFK die. He let The Comedian kill his Vietnamese lover. There were plenty of things in his past that I see that would have let him just let Rorschach walk, and let him turn in Veidt.

But, that trip to Mars changed it all. He started respecting life. Respecting the things that made them comfortable, rather than just what was just. Also, when talking to Veidt about human life, he says, "Yes, I think I'll go create some" (not an exact quote). He doesn't want to desert humanity, he's leaving to CREATE humanity, and, presumably, cherish it even more.


That's just my take on it all, though.


true, Jon isnt nearly as apethetic as he was earlier in the book, but he knew that letting veidt go along with his plan wasnt the best thing for the human race and he tells it to veidt himself (nothing ever ends adrian..) but he sees it as a way to leave the human race in a state of calmness for at least a little while so he just kinda goes along with it.
The Mitch Clem formula
1)make jokes about rancid and NOFX (as if they dont already make fun of themselves)
2)make obvious punk puns, possibly related to food
3)make fun of Rancid and NOFX again
4)??????
5)PROFIT (and an army of internet fanboys)