Poll: Which head?
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View poll results: Which head?
Orange Tiny Terror
11 46%
Blackheart Handsome Devil
13 54%
Voters: 24.
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#1
Alright, I tried a British-voiced class-A head today at Guitar Center, namely an Orange AD30 head. The tone floored me and really moved much closer to completing what I was looking for in my head, and I decided a British-voiced class-A tube head would be my next purchase, preferably an Orange. As I'm poor though, I looked at the TT, but again, being poor, even that's expensive for me, so I looked for alternatives with UG's help. Someone suggested the Blackheart Handsome Devil. The opinion of Blackhearts seems pretty good generally, so I looked into this a bit, and it seems like a good deal; same tube compliment, same wattage switching, same voicing and class, and a 3-band EQ instead of 1-band. I'm not positive it'll be as much of what I want as an Orange though, hence why I'm asking you guys.

In short, Orange Tiny Terror or Blackheart Handsome Devil?

Help is much appreciated as usual.
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#2
The TT is not nearly as good as the AD or any other Orange amp. It's a $200 entry level tube amp with a $300 Orange paint job.

The Blackheart is much more flexible than the TT. The EQ makes all the difference in the world. It simply blows the TT away. You should try a Blackstar HT-5, too.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#3
blackheart is good, but the orange pwns the sh*t of it. its just a way better amp IMO. you could check the blackstar 5 w thingy

EDIT: f/ck, sum1 beat me
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Last edited by ldnovelo at Feb 11, 2009,
#4
Quote by theoreticmusic
The TT is not nearly as good as the AD or any other Orange amp. It's a $200 entry level tube amp with a $300 Orange paint job.

The Blackheart is much more flexible than the TT. The EQ makes all the difference in the world. It simply blows the TT away. You should try a Blackstar HT-5, too.


Hmm...those are bold words since most of UG seems to love the TT. I will take your word on it like everyone else's though since I can't try either of these beforehand, though I would like some basis for your word.

I actually looked into the HT-5, but the 5-watt thing turned me off since, being in a band where I need to be heard over a drummer, vocalist, keyboardist and two other guitarists at the moment(one may become a bassist since we don't have one yet and I already beat both out for lead), I need at least 15-watts tube IMO. Could that be a problem volume-wise?

Quote by ldnovelo
blackheart is good, but the orange pwns the sh*t of it. its just a way better amp IMO. you could check the blackstar 5 w thingy

EDIT: f/ck, sum1 beat me


Could you provide some basis for that opinion?

*Insert the above stuff about the HT-5 here*
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#5
Quote by necrosis1193
Hmm...those are bold words since most of UG seems to love the TT. I will take your word on it like everyone else's though since I can't try either of these beforehand, though I would like some basis for your word.

I actually looked into the HT-5, but the 5-watt thing turned me off since, being in a band where I need to be heard over a drummer, vocalist, keyboardist and two other guitarists at the moment(one may become a bassist since we don't have one yet and I already beat both out for lead), I need at least 15-watts tube IMO. Could that be a problem volume-wise?




You'll find that most people with an ear for tone and extensive experience with the TT are less than thrilled with it. Step into the Old Hacks thread and see what they think. Well...don't actually do it, but you get the picture.
I owned a TT from August to last week and could never get a satisfying tone out of it. Cleans are utterly bland, and nonexistent at gigging volumes, and the only thing it can actually do is a decent British crunch. The fact that there is only a single tone knob is a huge disappointment, as it pretty much dials the tone from bright and flat to dark and flat. It reacts very much the same way as a tone knob on a guitar. For me, a decent british crunch isn't worth $500 bucks. Granted, I used the amp in stereo with another, and it sounded better like that, but that's the only reason why I kept it for so long. I honestly think most people that play it fool themselves into thinking it's good simply because it's an Orange. It's just not.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#6
Id say Blackheart because if you install some mods on it it will blow the Orange TT away...........
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#7
Oh, and the TT does NOT take pedals well.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#8
Quote by theoreticmusic
The TT is not nearly as good as the AD or any other Orange amp. It's a $200 entry level tube amp with a $300 Orange paint job.

The Blackheart is much more flexible than the TT. The EQ makes all the difference in the world. It simply blows the TT away. You should try a Blackstar HT-5, too.


This.

I haven't played a TT personally, i can't wait too really, because from what i've seen of them (youtube, etc.) i really don't care for them.

They just don't seem worth the 500 or 600 dollar pricetag.

The blackheart seems like its similar, and i've heard people rave that blackhearts are the ****, so i would go with that


EDIT:
Quote by theoreticmusic
You'll find that most people with an ear for tone and extensive experience with the TT are less than thrilled with it. Step into the Old Hacks thread and see what they think. Well...don't actually do it, but you get the picture.
I owned a TT from August to last week and could never get a satisfying tone out of it. Cleans are utterly bland, and nonexistent at gigging volumes, and the only thing it can actually do is a decent British crunch. The fact that there is only a single tone knob is a huge disappointment, as it pretty much dials the tone from bright and flat to dark and flat. It reacts very much the same way as a tone knob on a guitar. For me, a decent british crunch isn't worth $500 bucks. Granted, I used the amp in stereo with another, and it sounded better like that, but that's the only reason why I kept it for so long. I honestly think most people that play it fool themselves into thinking it's good simply because it's an Orange. It's just not.



Just hit the nail on the head.

Also, it CAN hit metal levels of gain (with a boost) but the tone sound incredibly bad compared to others
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Last edited by acdclandon at Feb 11, 2009,
#9
^, ^^ & ^^^; Hmm...suppose I'll look around the local shops and see if there's any that've become Blackheart dealers yet so I can try some out...
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Last edited by necrosis1193 at Feb 11, 2009,
#10
Quote by necrosis1193
Could you provide some basis for that opinion?

i dont like the blackheart's overdriven sound. I do like the orange's.
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#13
I'm not sure how loud a 15W will be in a band setting. You'd have to really boost it with some sort of overdrive and boost the mids to get it to cut through, not to mention cranking it all the time. Between drums and TWO other guitarists, it may be a stretch...
#14
Quote by The_Bosstone
I'm not sure how loud a 15W will be in a band setting. You'd have to really boost it with some sort of overdrive and boost the mids to get it to cut through, not to mention cranking it all the time. Between drums and TWO other guitarists, it may be a stretch...



A good one will be fine. The Orange is loud as balls, but I've never cranked the Blackheart all the way. You're going to be mic'd at most gigs, regardless of how big your amp is.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#15
Quote by WTF!!is a TAB


I have to agree. Alright then, suppose that answers my question...

Quote by The_Bosstone
I'm not sure how loud a 15W will be in a band setting. You'd have to really boost it with some sort of overdrive and boost the mids to get it to cut through, not to mention cranking it all the time. Between drums and TWO other guitarists, it may be a stretch...


112 Blues Jr. worked at 3. I imagine a same wattage class-A head with a 212 or 412 would only work better.
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#16
Quote by necrosis1193



112 Blues Jr. worked at 3. I imagine a same wattage class-A head with a 212 or 412 would only work better.

Superfail. A cab isn't going to make it louder, it might make the mid and bass responses a bit better, but it won't make the amp louder.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#17
Quote by theoreticmusic
Superfail. A cab isn't going to make it louder, it might make the mid and bass responses a bit better, but it won't make the amp louder.


Hmm...I blame one of my bands other guitarists; his father is a techie so I trust him, but apparently he's an idiot, because he was the one who told me that.
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#18
Quote by necrosis1193
Hmm...I blame one of my bands other guitarists; his father is a techie so I trust him, but apparently he's an idiot, because he was the one who told me that.

It might make it sound a bit louder due to more audible frequencies being amplified, but there won't be an actual dB difference.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#19
Quote by necrosis1193
Hmm...I blame one of my bands other guitarists; his father is a techie so I trust him, but apparently he's an idiot, because he was the one who told me that.


Yeah, he's an idiot...

I'm sure you won't be completely drowned out but you will not hear yourself much depending on how loud your other guitarists are playing.

Quote by theoreticmusic
A good one will be fine. The Orange is loud as balls, but I've never cranked the Blackheart all the way. You're going to be mic'd at most gigs, regardless of how big your amp is.


Oh, I'm not even talking about gigs. I'm talking about practices mostly. Unless you want to use your blues junior for practice and your Blackheart at gigs. Not sure...

Of course, you could always just bite the bullet and buy a BH100H Hot Head and a seperate cab. Only $900 USD!
#20
Quote by The_Bosstone
Of course, you could always just bite the bullet and buy a BH100H Hot Head and a seperate cab. Only $900 USD!


XD If I do that I'm buying the used AD30 they had at a local GC(it was a bit beat-up and had a few rips in the tolex, so it was about $1,000), building a 112 speaker cabinet and having my cousin wire everything.
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#21
Quote by necrosis1193
XD If I do that I'm buying the used AD30 they had at a local GC(it was a bit beat-up and had a few rips in the tolex, so it was about $1,000), building a 112 speaker cabinet and having my cousin wire everything.

Building a cab is almost never a good idea.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#22
Quote by theoreticmusic
Building a cab is almost never a good idea.


Okay then, finding and buying a used 112.
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#23
haha. there are good reasons for that: a solid cab will use hardwoods that are not easy for you to find in the proper quantities at a good price, and jointing, ply, and fabrication are all crucial to proper tone. poor construction will suck tone, and you just don't want that.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#24
Quote by theoreticmusic
haha. there are good reasons for that: a solid cab will use hardwoods that are not easy for you to find in the proper quantities at a good price, and jointing, ply, and fabrication are all crucial to proper tone. poor construction will suck tone, and you just don't want that.


Hmm...I see your point. You're pretty knowledgeable, you know that?

Also, as long as we're diverting from the subject matter somewhat, should I go for the HD or the tele I'm looking at first?
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#25
Quote by necrosis1193
Hmm...I see your point. You're pretty knowledgeable, you know that?

Also, as long as we're diverting from the subject matter somewhat, should I go for the HD or the tele I'm looking at first?

No, not really...there is much left to learn.

The amp is much more important to the sound. The HD, definitely. Unless your guitar is plastic.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#26
Quote by theoreticmusic
No, not really...there is much left to learn.

The amp is much more important to the sound. The HD, definitely. Unless your guitar is plastic.


Still, you're a lot better than a lot of people I've seen around here.

Hmm...alright then. Now I just need to find and settle on a cab...
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#27
Avatar Cabs are good, except they're made of MDF, but you're going to be hard-pressed to find a hardwood 112. A used Mesa 2x12 would do you well.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#28
i thought avatar cabs were made of 15mm birch plywood ?
i used to be a mod, then i took an arrow in the knee.
#29
I'm wrong. The traditionals are 13ply baltic birch, which is decent hardwood, the contemporaries are voidless birch, and the vintages are voidless birch.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#30
Quote by necrosis1193
^, ^^ & ^^^; Hmm...suppose I'll look around the local shops and see if there's any that've become Blackheart dealers yet so I can try some out...

If you have a local shop that is a Crate dealer, they will be able to bring in Blackhearts. Blackheart is a division of Crate.

Oh, and I love my Blackheart!

Everyone that has talked about the EQ is dead-on. If you EQ it right, you can get anywhere from a decent clean blues sound (not the best, but decent), a good pop-punk sound (blink-182ish sounding), to a nice, crunchy, delicious AC/DC type tone. I have the LG, and that only has Bass, Mids, and Treble. The HD has that plus a Presence control, as I'm sure you already know. And I can only imagine that improves the already good tone. The only thing I would definately consider doing is replacing the tubes. The stock ones can get very harsh sounding.

Lastly, I'm glad to see that you've taken your time and done plenty of your own research in this amp buying process.

EDIT: Oh, and the Blackheart 112 cab is pretty good, but I'm sure
A) There are better options for the price.
B) A 112 cab might not be loud enough to gig with
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Last edited by Natrone at Feb 11, 2009,
#31
Quote by theoreticmusic
Avatar Cabs are good, except they're made of MDF, but you're going to be hard-pressed to find a hardwood 112. A used Mesa 2x12 would do you well.


Hmm...I'm liking what I see, but there aren't any local dealers of either... >< I found some used cabs that look decent on the local craigslist though, can I get your call?

Quote by Natrone
If you have a local shop that is a Crate dealer, they will be able to bring in Blackhearts. Blackheart is a division of Crate.

Oh, and I love my Blackheart!

Everyone that has talked about the EQ is dead-on. If you EQ it right, you can get anywhere from a decent clean blues sound (not the best, but decent), a good pop-punk sound (blink-182ish sounding), to a nice, crunchy, delicious AC/DC type tone. I have the LG, and that only has Bass, Mids, and Treble. The HD has that plus a Presence control, as I'm sure you already know. And I can only imagine that improves the already good tone. The only thing I would definately consider doing is replacing the tubes. The stock ones can get very harsh sounding.

Lastly, I'm glad to see that you've taken your time and done plenty of your own research in this amp buying process.

EDIT: Oh, and the Blackheart 112 cab is pretty good, but I'm sure
A) There are better options for the price.
B) A 112 cab might not be loud enough to gig with


Aye, I did my research on this purchase mainly because I intend to have this as my main amp until my band builds a fanbase and I need more volume, if that ever happens.

As for the BH 112, I did consider it, but B was my main concern.
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#32
Quote by necrosis1193
Hmm...I'm liking what I see, but there aren't any local dealers of either... >< I found some used cabs that look decent on the local craigslist though, can I get your call?


Aye, I did my research on this purchase mainly because I intend to have this as my main amp until my band builds a fanbase and I need more volume, if that ever happens.

As for the BH 112, I did consider it, but B was my main concern.



Avatar deals exclusively online, factory direct (except for a store in Canada, i think).

What cabs did you find?
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#33
They are both amazing amps. Take it form someone who owns both, however the Blackheart isn't very loud. It may need to be mic'd even at practice. I seriously suggest your ad-30 idea though. great amps.
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#34
Quote by theoreticmusic
Avatar deals exclusively online, factory direct (except for a store in Canada, i think).

What cabs did you find?


A Mesa 412 for $600, a Vader 412 for $550, a 1974 Marshall 412 with original Celestion Greenbacks for $595, a Marshall 1960A 412 for $400, a Marshall 1936 212 for $500, a Marshall 412 of unidentified model that says it's made in England for $175, and an old bass-style Peavey 412 for $60 that I almost feel obliged to rescue since in the image the guy is using a Spider head with it.

Quote by Cagney1990
They are both amazing amps. Take it form someone who owns both, however the Blackheart isn't very loud. It may need to be mic'd even at practice. I seriously suggest your ad-30 idea though. great amps.


Believe me when I say I want to, but I can't afford to spend that much on the head and then another bit on the cab. It's been there for a while though, so with any luck I can get it once I am in a position to spend that much.
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Last edited by necrosis1193 at Feb 12, 2009,
#35
The 1936 is probably all you need, but offer him $400 firm. If he says no, then go for the Vader, but offer $500 to see if he'll drop it. It's worth $550 though, I'm pretty sure. Without seeing it...
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#36
Quote by theoreticmusic
The 1936 is probably all you need, but offer him $400 firm. If he says no, then go for the Vader, but offer $500 to see if he'll drop it. It's worth $550 though, I'm pretty sure. Without seeing it...


I could give some links to the three I've narrowed it to, which includes those two.
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#37
Quote by necrosis1193
I could give some links to the three I've narrowed it to, which includes those two.

go for it.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#38
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#39
Peavey speakers suck. Forget that. my advice stands.
1936 if you can get it for $450 or less, otherwise Vader.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#40
Alright then. Again, much appreciated.
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