#1
The band background:
I am an experienced guitar player. I have been playing 5 years nearly and have written hundreds of licks, riffs, and countless songs using Guitar Pro 5 and my own recording equipment. I can play other instruments fairly well, but also use software to simulate more technical drum tracks and synth pads as well as effects. I started working for a company and met a guy who said he used to drum a while back. After a couple months of getting to know him, he finally let me come over to jam with him. He pretty much just started playing drums in terms of keeping a beat solid and creating different styles and patterns. He hadn't played in years as he claimed. So I went over a few more times just to have fun. Well my long time friend came over and wanted to learn bass. So myself and some others were offering advice, lessons, exercises, and other useful tips to get him going. He has only as of now been playing for 5 months but can stay solid on most riffs. So I introduced him to the drummer and things kind of went from there. We started to write originals and then this slow but devastating crap started to happen-

The Crap:
As things went on, we started to get more solid but we were only and have only been coming up with riffs and licks. I have prior band experience and I really want to work with these two great guys on writing some material. The pace that they have picked up their instruments is phenomenal and that holds high value to me as I look down the road at where we could be. Then this thing started happening. They would come up with something that either (A. Didn't match or make any sense) or (B. Come up with something too technical that they can't stay consistent with in terms of counting, accuracy, etc). So they ask "What should I do?" and I facepalm every time this happens because I want to avoid being a know it all, a-hole, or anything else that might offend them. I know what I want them to play but insist they use they're creativity to conjure a badarse formula of rock. Often I do give them something to play, and then it is too hard so they simplify it (Which is good!). It doesn't stop there, next they start to WANT to do it their own way (By making it technical/hard) so I say "Go ahead man". Then we have 3 different instruments doing 3 different things and have steered way off track of the song. The drummer gets confused and forgets his tracks, and the bassist gets angry when I suggest he do differently. I want a simple track, laid down and attacked with energy. It doesn't have to be complex but they don't wanna be seen as a "Crappy" player in terms of technical differences. So this cycle repeats and repeats and we end up always making noise.

The Problem:
Again I don't wanna come off as anything but a guitar player (Insert jokes here) and a songwriter. I focus more on writing songs as a whole than becoming the next hendrix of our era. I have passion for creating music and want to pursue it. I know I could fix the problem but by doing so, I am going to piss a couple people off (So I think). I want to avoid it: Band Drama. So even if I offer advice, it gets thrown away anyways and the pattern repeats. We CAN'T make a whole song because of this issue.

How do I fix this?
#2
Quote by Psychomyth
The band background:
I am an experienced guitar player. I have been playing 5 years nearly and have written hundreds of licks, riffs, and countless songs using Guitar Pro 5 and my own recording equipment. I can play other instruments fairly well, but also use software to simulate more technical drum tracks and synth pads as well as effects. I started working for a company and met a guy who said he used to drum a while back. After a couple months of getting to know him, he finally let me come over to jam with him. He pretty much just started playing drums in terms of keeping a beat solid and creating different styles and patterns. He hadn't played in years as he claimed. So I went over a few more times just to have fun. Well my long time friend came over and wanted to learn bass. So myself and some others were offering advice, lessons, exercises, and other useful tips to get him going. He has only as of now been playing for 5 months but can stay solid on most riffs. So I introduced him to the drummer and things kind of went from there. We started to write originals and then this slow but devastating crap started to happen-

The Crap:
As things went on, we started to get more solid but we were only and have only been coming up with riffs and licks. I have prior band experience and I really want to work with these two great guys on writing some material. The pace that they have picked up their instruments is phenomenal and that holds high value to me as I look down the road at where we could be. Then this thing started happening. They would come up with something that either (A. Didn't match or make any sense) or (B. Come up with something too technical that they can't stay consistent with in terms of counting, accuracy, etc). So they ask "What should I do?" and I facepalm every time this happens because I want to avoid being a know it all, a-hole, or anything else that might offend them. I know what I want them to play but insist they use they're creativity to conjure a badarse formula of rock. Often I do give them something to play, and then it is too hard so they simplify it (Which is good!). It doesn't stop there, next they start to WANT to do it their own way (By making it technical/hard) so I say "Go ahead man". Then we have 3 different instruments doing 3 different things and have steered way off track of the song. The drummer gets confused and forgets his tracks, and the bassist gets angry when I suggest he do differently. I want a simple track, laid down and attacked with energy. It doesn't have to be complex but they don't wanna be seen as a "Crappy" player in terms of technical differences. So this cycle repeats and repeats and we end up always making noise.

The Problem:
Again I don't wanna come off as anything but a guitar player (Insert jokes here) and a songwriter. I focus more on writing songs as a whole than becoming the next hendrix of our era. I have passion for creating music and want to pursue it. I know I could fix the problem but by doing so, I am going to piss a couple people off (So I think). I want to avoid it: Band Drama. So even if I offer advice, it gets thrown away anyways and the pattern repeats. We CAN'T make a whole song because of this issue.

How do I fix this?


simply except it for what it is, and keep your eyes open for other opportunities where you can do the things you want to do.
#4
Quote by Psychomyth
That doesn't help the BAND though.


Interesting that the post is about what YOU want. How YOU want them to play. You see yourself as this experienced player that is resorting working with some lesser players because you think that one day they will be good like you (with your guidance of-course), and then eventually, you'll be a good band. Unfortunately it doesn't usually work that way.

Like I said, accept the situation for what it is. Work with what you have. If your not happy with what the other members bring to the table, move on to a new situation if you can find one.

You shouldn't have to write their parts for them, and you can't change them over night. Live with the situation as is or move on.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Feb 12, 2009,
#5
Try telling them that the riff/beat/whatever is good but it doesn't fit in with the particular song you're working on. Then try and incorporate it into something you'll write in the future.

Another thing is to find out if they like how what they're playing sounds. Record it and play it back to them the next day, chances are if it's utter **** they'll notice when they hear the recording and aren't absorbed in playing it.
Gear List:
B.C. Rich NT Jr. V (With Seymour Duncan AHB-1 Blackout in bridge)
Electro-Harmonix Metal Muff
Marshall MG15DFX
Jazz III picks
DR strings
Planet Waves Cables
#6
Interesting that the post is about what YOU want. How YOU want them to play. You see yourself as this experienced player that is resorting working with some lesser players because you think that one day they will be good like you (with your guidance of-course), and then eventually, you'll be a good band. Unfortunately it doesn't usually work that way.

Like I said, accept the situation for what it is. Work with what you have. If your not happy with what the other members bring to the table, move on to a new situation if you can find one.

You shouldn't have to write their parts for them, and you can't change them over night. Live with the situation as is or move on.


The post is about what I want because I have experience as a player and a writer. It's not hopes that they will be as "talented" as myself one day. I know what I am and I don't give a damn what anyone says. I know how to write music and they are novice at their instruments. It would be selfish not to help out and just watch them rattle, when I know I can help them.

My original question was: How Do I Fix This? Well let me re-word that for those of you might lack internet interpretation and understanding, GuitarMunky.

How do I approach someone without them slamming off little comments just like you did? No matter how tactful my approach is, its going to be offensive? This is exactly my point.

@ LEPER
I have, and they have listened to themselves. They don't seem to think that much is off, but when I stop and listen to the "Song" it's just randomized, not counted, and parts are played differently almost each "Verse" and the majority of the time somebody isn't playing their part when it needs to be played. (I can miss notes and screw up too munky, sit back down)

Original Problem:
I am outdoing my band and I want to help them in terms of writing music better as a whole band and not focusing on what they individually sound like. I can soak up in pride or I can come off as an a-hole trying to help. Either way I didn't and still don't give a damn who thinks what, but at the same time I am as I always have been, trying to be nice about it and I think I have hit the point where I am ready to kick some ass with this band. I talked to the bass player and will talk to the drummer here soon. Sure as ****, he was in "Shock" when I approached him. No surprise I would be mad too, in a way. I was in their shoes when I joined my first band, so I totally get it. Only it wasn't just one person rubbing off on me that way as compared to one person (Myself) teaching the band.

Moral of what I think is going on here:
A band can teach you, but you can never teach a band without jealousy of some sort. (Definition: Jealous resentment against a rival, a person enjoying success or advantage, etc., or against another's success or advantage itself)

Edit: That would be pretty rude to consider myself as having an advantage wouldn't it? The five years I have spent countless hour on becoming good was all for shame. Damn it all! Damn it all to hell!
Last edited by Psychomyth at Feb 13, 2009,