#1
I was looking at getting a Peavy Vyper 30 from guitar center after doing some research. Seems like it would be real fun to mess around w/ all the different tones and explore different sounds. On the other hand there's a guy locally that has an Epiphone Valve Jr. cabinent & tube amp for $200--the same cost as the Peavy.

So what do I do? $200 is the most I can spend--do I go for the tube, or get the Peavy? This is my first amp, so not sure which direction to go. Most of what I've been playing is hard rock and punk, with some metal and white stripes thrown in. Any opinions?
#3
tube

/thread
My Guitars:
Gibson Les Paul Studio
Epiphone AJ
Ibanez Strat Copy

Amps:
Orange Tiny Terror Head
Old beaten up Peavey cab
Marshall MG30DFX
#4
Save up for the Vypyr 60, it's both.
Squier Strat (Jazz/JB) - Dunlop Zakk Wylde Crybaby - Boss MIJ HM-2 Distortion - Peavey Valveking 212 - Fender CD60
#5
I personally dont know much about either amp but, when you think about it, what amp has higher possibilities, the amp with a volume control and nothing else, that uses a technology that is completely outdated, (tubes) or a modern, digital, professionally designed amp, that is made to model several different amps and although I dont know for sure Im sure it models them quite well.
Kramer Striker FR-424
Fender Starcaster
Roland Cube 30
Roland Mini Cube

Digitech RP90
Squier P-Bass (Insanely modded)
Fender Rumble 15
#6
Quote by BTSleadguitar
I personally dont know much about either amp but, when you think about it, what amp has higher possibilities, the amp with a volume control and nothing else, that uses a technology that is completely outdated, (tubes) or a modern, digital, professionally designed amp, that is made to model several different amps and although I dont know for sure Im sure it models them quite well.



Wow, that may be the single most uninformed statement that i've heard today. Outdated technology. Wonder why i've never heard of that sought after solid state modeling amp?
#7
I'm a huge Vj fan, However on it's own it is no where near as versatile as a modeler. It does sound a hell of alot better. If your a patient kind of guy get the Vj and add pedals as you can. In the end you'll have a much better rig. For modeling I plug a POD XT Live into it and get great results. I've since started to add individual pedals and it's even better. But if you want variety right now and can't wait just get a modeler. Your call.
Dean Icon PZ
Line 6 Variax 700
Dean V-Wing
Dean ML 79 SilverBurst
MXR M 108
H2O Chorus/Echo
Valve Junior (V3 Head/Cab and Combo)
VHT Special 6
Phonic 620 Power Pod PA
Wampler Super Plextortion
Line 6 Pod HD
#8
the vypyr sounds outstanding for the price!
I own one.
Its the bestselling amp in the states currently.

the Peavey vypyr is a transtube....no need to replace tubes, which can be costly in the long run.
.
#9
I test drove a Valve Jr., and I thought it sounded pretty nice - but left the store without buying one.

Several months later - still wanting a tiny tube amp - I tried the Fender Champion 600 - very similar in architecture - and I much preferred it - so I bought it. I think it sounds much sweeter - at least with the American Std. Tele I generally play through it.

That said - neither of those 5-watt tube amps will do a very good job of copping a punk sound - even less a metal sound or White Stripes sound. Depending on what you mean by "hard rock" maybe just maybe... but not so much.

Those are little class-A tube amps - single 6V6 in the Fender vs. a single EL84 in the Epiphone, iirc - with single 12AX7 pre-amps and they don't make a huge amount of sustain and distortion without help. If you crank them and play hard - they growl beautifully - just not hang onto that note, wrench on your vibrato and sustain for 10 seconds beautifully.

...of course - that's why the God's gave us the cornucopia of fuzz/distortion/overdrive pedals available today. The real tube-tone-freaks (some I've read on this forum I believe) like modding the Valve Jr and Champ 600, but I'm pretty happy with my Champ as is for now - especially if I front-end it with one of my pedals for the solo that needs extra bite. (My RAT sounds good in front of the Champ with any guitar. I recently treated myself to a Fulltone GT500, which is a pretty complex overdrive/distortion pedal that can sound beautiful or terrible in that chain, depending on how you tweak the controls.)


So...................................... anyway..... if you don't have more than $200 to spend (roughly the price of either of those 5-watt tube amps).... and you aren't going to be playing styles that work with relatively old-school medium-gain, which it sounds like you aren't... I'd have to suggest you get the modeling amp.

I'm a tube guy though, and don't really much care for how I sound through any of the Line-6 amps I've tried - I think a Fender G-Dec left me unsatisified as well. Honestely I haven't test driven much in the line of digital amps though - that's about it. I will say that folks that like modeling amps tend to love em' - generally citing so many sounds in one amp as the primary reason. I don't fiddle with my tone enough for that to compensate for the fact that my few favorite tones seem a little less sweet through any digital approximation.

My tone-gut says - save up another $40-80, buy either the Valve-Jr. or Champ-600 - whichever sounds better to you - and find the fuzz-box in that range you think sounds best.


btw - nothing special about that $200 price tag...actually - check this out - from AMS.

Epiphone Valve-Junior Combo is only $150 now! (Used to be closer to $200 - I'll bet they slashed it due to the Champ's competition. I got my Champ for $180, btw - but it's going for $200 today.

+

Any number of distortion pedals

=

Killer tone for around $200.

At $40-60, either of these are probably pretty cool sounding...

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-BOS-DS1-LIST

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-DOD-DDM-LIST

...at a few bucks more - but still keeping you below $225 total, I like these - at least my treasured ancient version of the same thing...

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-SOV-LBM-LIST

Of course - there are a whole lot of distortion pedals on that list.

And again - I really do prefer the Champ's sound to the Epiphone - but that's just me.

Have fun shopping.
Last edited by SSSteve at Feb 13, 2009,
#11
what built in effects does the vypyr have? im getting one, but since im buying online from Guitarampkeyboard i havent had a chance so see what effects it has built in.

Epiphone Hummingbird
Epiphone Futura Custom Prophecy (Twin EMG)
Vox Valvetronix VT20+
Vox Wah
Boss MD-2
Danelectro Cool Cat Drive
Boss EQ


#12
Quote by Silver-spear94
what built in effects does the vypyr have? im getting one, but since im buying online from Guitarampkeyboard i havent had a chance so see what effects it has built in.


check out youtube and do a search for vpyer 30...a few differnt demos. i think it's got 12 or so stomp box effects, 12 amp sims, then another 12 add-on effects (like trem & stuff)...plus you can tweak the levels on everything.
#13
Quote by Silver-spear94
what built in effects does the vypyr have? im getting one, but since im buying online from Guitarampkeyboard i havent had a chance so see what effects it has built in.


its got 24 amp models
11 rack efx
11 stompboxes
5 efx at once
transtube analog distortion.

its got chorus, pitch shifter, env filter, looper, phaser, flanger, analog phaser, analong flanger, delay, slap back, tubescreamer, and more efx.
thats just naming some of them
.
#14
Quote by SSSteve
I test drove a Valve Jr., and I thought it sounded pretty nice - but left the store without buying one.

...

Have fun shopping.


Thanks--lots of good info. I have a DS-1 already...wanted to get a big muff but guitar center was out of 'em.

I guess what i should do is demo them & see what I like (duh). Just want to make sure I get something that i'll be happy with for a while. I need something that makes it sound better when i play cuz man i suck... Thx!
#15
Champ 600 sounds great with any pedal I've put in front of it and on its own it does have a sweet tone like SSSteve said. Saying tube /thread is dumb. Tube isn't always the best. If you want more effects and don't have the cash then get a Cube or a similar good solid state amp. People seem to prefer the Vypyr but I don't know if they're just copying what others said and being on the bandwagon or actually played one so try one out first before spending your money. Keep in my though that with the Champ 600 its only got 1 volume knob and thats it. Pretty basic but sweet sounding. If you already have a few pedals I suggest trying that one out for sure.
2003 Music Man Axis Pacific Blue Burst
#16
Quote by turbomatic
Thanks--lots of good info. I have a DS-1 already...wanted to get a big muff but guitar center was out of 'em.

I guess what i should do is demo them & see what I like (duh). Just want to make sure I get something that i'll be happy with for a while. I need something that makes it sound better when i play cuz man i suck... Thx!


My pleasure... might as well share my unhealthy love of gear with others so afflicted.

From what I'm hearing in this thread - that Vyper is probably a nice amp - and I have always thought Peavey knows how to do solid state tone as good as anyone. Sounds like they tossed the kitchen sink into that one. As I said before - just don't tweak the knobs enough for that to sell me.

....and I'm tellin ya' - a well dialed distortion in front of either of those little tube guys sounds great. If you've already got a DS-1 - bring it and your axe to the store when they have the Epi and the Fender in stock and tear it up!

Lately - I've been delving into the unaffected tones of my Champ. There are certain sweet qualities to the compliment of its all-tube distortion and my Tele's pickups that just gets lost if I add anything to the signal. The Fulltone pedal I got is a two-in-one deal - a tube-screamer style overdrive and a FET-based solid-state distortion with some very nice EQ capabilities. (I tried Visual Sound's Jekyll and Hyde - but it seemed to pick up a bit more 60-cycle interference that cleaned up when I tried the Fulltone. I also tried a Korean-built Blackstar tube-based distortion pedal - that honestly sounded ultra-sweet - but I went with the differently-sweet Fulltone for its Made in CA label - Jekyll and Hyde is built in TN, too btw - in case you care about such things).

I'm starting to fall in love with that Fulltone in conjunction with my Champ - the cheap, cute little 1-trick tube amp blossoms into a multi-tone beauty with that top-quality pedal.

...as noted though - any decent pedal will of course give you the signal boost you need for hard-rock gain levels. That DS-1 would sound great - as does my RAT.
#17
Quote by DSOTM80
Champ 600 sounds great with any pedal I've put in front of it and on its own it does have a sweet tone like SSSteve said. Saying tube /thread is dumb. Tube isn't always the best. If you want more effects and don't have the cash then get a Cube or a similar good solid state amp. People seem to prefer the Vypyr but I don't know if they're just copying what others said and being on the bandwagon or actually played one so try one out first before spending your money. Keep in my though that with the Champ 600 its only got 1 volume knob and thats it. Pretty basic but sweet sounding. If you already have a few pedals I suggest trying that one out for sure.


...there's a much more concise version.

...in all my rambling don't know if that point that tube isn't always best really came through - it's a good one.

My guitar "feels" better to me through almost any real tube amp. But OMG I've heard other players sound fantastic through amps that don't work for me.
#18
Quote by BTSleadguitar
I personally dont know much about either amp but, when you think about it, what amp has higher possibilities, the amp with a volume control and nothing else, that uses a technology that is completely outdated, (tubes) or a modern, digital, professionally designed amp, that is made to model several different amps and although I dont know for sure Im sure it models them quite well.


You sir, should shut up. Seeing as you know nothing, don't speak.

Completely outdated, huh? That's odd... you know, change isn't always good. Tubes have been around for ages, and what, because they're the preliminary amplifier design makes them bad? Are you saying Leo Fender wasn't a professional when he designed his tube amps? Because if that's the case, you need to zip it.

You're dumb. As for the TS, I say get whatever you want. I think personally for $200 that the VJ + cab is a good deal. Sure, it's a bare-bones design, so what? Maybe get a few pedals in your collection to give you variety, or even better, get an EQ pedal. There you have it. I would go for the tube, due to the better quality tone. While it's not the best tube amp, it's still pretty half decent. The Vyper... not bad, pretty good for a modeling amp, but tubes are the way to go, man.

Don't listen to BTSleadguitar, he has no idea what he is talking about, clearly.
#19
<---- See's "Tube Snobs"

Hit the Guitar center and play some amps to decide what your ears like..
As you play and your taste changesm, you can always trade / swap, buy and sell. For me, thats 1/2 the fun. I have had everything from Fender Tube and Delta Blues to Spider II
I have fun with all of them and it depends on the music, the acoustics of the room, and the mood I am in.
On a budget? get the modeling amp, It helps you to understand all of the pedals you will want if and when you do go tube.
Play, listen and have fun.
200.00 modeling amp play NOW
400.00 MINIMUM Tube, distortion pedal, Chorus pedal, flanger, Delay.... etc...
get the drift?
My anger managment class is really starting to piss me off!!
Last edited by showey at Feb 13, 2009,
#21
Quote by XxGibsonSGxX
What's that supposed to mean, eh?

LOL
See edited version above
My anger managment class is really starting to piss me off!!
#22
I played a Vypyr 30 and a Line6 Flextone III yesterday. I wasn't impressed by either of them to be honest. If I ever replace my crappy Peavey Envoy 110 solid state practice amp, I'm gonna get like a 5W-10W tube amp of some sort like a Blackheart Little Giant or something that. I've found that all solid states sound fizzy as soon as you put distortion on, there's just that certain something that a tube amp has that a SS amp doesn't.
my MG15DFX has a button that simulates the sound of one of the expensive tube marshall amps


Fender Stratocaster HSS
LTD EC-400AT
Traynor YCV-50 Blue
Peavey Envoy 110

Wishlist: Hamer USA Explorer, Gibson Explorer
#23
Quote by showey
LOL
See edited version above


I see what you're saying.

But...

In the end, what's going to have a better tone? A tube amp played with various stomp boxes or some modeling amp? Obviously the tube amp.

So really, if you're satisfied with a modeler, then that's fine. Personally, I love tube tone and think it sounds a lot better. To each their own. Sorry if I seemed like a snob, but that guys' post was really stupid. Since when are tubes outdated technology and not professional? Since, uh, never.

EDIT: MustangSVT, yeah dude, you know what you're on about. We got the same amps; I love mine. Satisfied with yours, I take it?
#25
Its not just that its a tube amp bro, you have to play different amps. While I liked my Delta Blues, Its not ALWAYS how I wanted to sound. Thats the tough part, especially starting out and asking "What sound do I want"?
If you buy Marshall, you will sound Marshall and so on... ( to a degree of course, no flames please) When Learing who you are as a musician IMO it's best to have many resources at your finger tips and refine from there.
My anger managment class is really starting to piss me off!!
#26
Quote by BTSleadguitar
I personally dont know much about either amp but, when you think about it, what amp has higher possibilities, the amp with a volume control and nothing else, that uses a technology that is completely outdated, (tubes) or a modern, digital, professionally designed amp, that is made to model several different amps and although I dont know for sure Im sure it models them quite well.


Quoted for bullsh*t.
ಠ_ಠ
#27
Just some closure to this thread (or maybe not...). I ended up purchasing a Peavy Vyper 30W at Guitar Center and playing it for a couple of days. Once the initial novelty of having all the effects built in wore off, I decided the sound just wasn't for me. The effects and modeling were just too overdone...everything except a few of the clean amp models just sounded really electronic and fizzy. The high gain models had so much gain it just kind of mushed the sound up into something unintelligible. So I took it back...

...and I found a super cheap tube amp on craigslist. A Crate V18....i know i know, nothing spectacular, but for $150 the sound was just way better than any modeling amp I tried at GC. It's real bass heavy so you have to keep the eq dial down on that end, but other than that sound is great...it just sounds like a guitar w/o all the fizzy electronic stuff mixed in. The gain level seems just right for heavy power chord stuff (pretty much all i can play now anyway), and putting a pedal in front of it i can take the distortion up even higher, but still keep it from breaking up completely. Bottom line, there may be some nice-sounding solid state modeling amps out there, but i couldn't find one so it was tube-amp for me, even if it is a cheap one.

thanks for the advice provided throughout this thread...great stuff for a first-time amp buyer.
Last edited by turbomatic at Feb 18, 2009,
#29
tube or modeling? how about both? check out hughes & kettner switchblade
It's all about feel
#30
the Vypyr is lots of fun id go for that.. or just save up and get a Valve King or something if you want a cheep tube
#31
Quote by turbomatic

...and I found a super cheap tube amp on craigslist. A Crate V18....i know i know, nothing spectacular, but for $150 the sound was just way better than any modeling amp I tried at GC. It's real bass heavy so you have to keep the eq dial down on that end, but other than that sound is great...it just sounds like a guitar w/o all the fizzy electronic stuff mixed in. The gain level seems just right for heavy power chord stuff (pretty much all i can play now anyway), and putting a pedal in front of it i can take the distortion up even higher, but still keep it from breaking up completely. Bottom line, there may be some nice-sounding solid state modeling amps out there, but i couldn't find one so it was tube-amp for me, even if it is a cheap one.

thanks for the advice provided throughout this thread...great stuff for a first-time amp buyer.

I agree with you. I don't own a modelling amp, but I did use a friend's Roland Cube 30 for a few months. It's alright to have all those effects, but once the novelty wears off, they don't sound "great" by any means, just average if you know what I mean. When I play my tube amp with my Strat, I can fiddle a bit around with the EQ and tone and volume knobs on my guitar and get a few different tones and that's enough for me.
my MG15DFX has a button that simulates the sound of one of the expensive tube marshall amps


Fender Stratocaster HSS
LTD EC-400AT
Traynor YCV-50 Blue
Peavey Envoy 110

Wishlist: Hamer USA Explorer, Gibson Explorer
#32
Get a Vox Valvetronix.

Theyre really good amps. And... theyre both tube amps and ing amps!

I have the AD50VT and I love it. It can give really nice cleans. But can definitely be very dirty as well. So theyre very versatile.