Poll: Torture?
Poll Options
View poll results: Torture?
Should be used on any prisoner, they've lost their human rights
37 9%
Is always wrong
158 40%
Only for the "obviously guilty" to save innocent lives
200 51%
Voters: 395.
Page 1 of 6
#1
There's a thread on the death penalty, but suprisingly not on another human rights issue: torture.

So what are your opinions on torture? Do you think that it is okay to use on any detainee? Do you think that all torture is wrong no matter what? Or do you think that, as Michael Levin said in his essay "The Case for Torture," it should only be used for the "obviously guilty" in order to save countless lives?

By the last option, I don't mean torturing a prisoner at Guantanamo Bay. What I mean is, for example, a terrorist who has set a bomb to detonate at a certain time. He's found before the bomb detonates. Would you torture him to find the bomb? (That example is from "The Case for Torture) EDIT:Also keep in mind that this is a very hypothetical situation, since this would probably never happen. Just asking if you would condone torture in such a situation.

EDIT: I'll add that for the last option, you would have to think that torture always works. Consider that if you already haven't before voting.

EDIT 2: I'm speaking strictly about interrogation. I'm sure that nobody would think I'm talking about persecution, but I think that should be made clear.
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Last edited by maninthebox24 at Feb 13, 2009,
#3
I say so. No torture just because though.
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#4
Doesn't work. No reason to use it.
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#5
Quote by civildp1
Doesn't work. No reason to use it.


What are you smoking?
#6
Yes, as i beleive in utalitarianism ie doing whats best for the most people, then again i would take their reasons for the bomb into account as well =/
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#7
In that bomb scenario, if nothing else works then go nuts. But otherwise, no.
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#8
Yeah why not, might be fun.
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#10
I personally dont agree with torture under any circumstances, haven't given much thought with that scenario you posted, I may agree then but he/she would probably never tell since they are on a mission to kill people.
#11
no. end of the conversation.
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#12
Quote by stevielash
Yes, as i beleive in utalitarianism ie doing whats best for the most people, then again i would take their reasons for the bomb into account as well =/


But utilitarianism is a stupid outlook, because it renders gang-rape as morally correct.
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#13
Torture usually doesn't work, I watched a show on History about it.

There is really no reason for it, it's a horrible practice.
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#14
Quote by Filter
What are you smoking?

He's absolutely correct. If you torture people, they will tell you what you want to hear, not what's true.

And there are no obviously guilty people. Even if they were, torture is NEVER legitimate, people don't lose their human rights, doesn't matter what they have done. You have human rights because you are human, hence you can't loose them.

My own, personal evaluation: This question is disgusting.
EDIT: Not you ts, just that question.


Quote by rabidguitarist
But utilitarianism is a stupid outlook, because it renders gang-rape as morally correct.

Bingo.
Last edited by TheQuailman at Feb 13, 2009,
#16
I'm sure there was a torture thread before, but it might have got deleted/closed because it ended up melting down into a huge christianity v atheism argument.

Anyway, IMO torture is wrong, everyone deserves basic human rights. No one deserves physical punishment of any form for any crime. Torture has no real arguments for it because any information yielded through its use is likely to be unreliable as, put under enough pain, anyone will confess to anything. If someone thinks it'll make the pain stop, they'll say anything and if they do know something and don't want to tell you, then making shit up would appear the best option anyway.
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#17
Quote by sam b
What form of torture though
Nipple twisting
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#18
Quote by Filter
What are you smoking?



What I'm smoking, is the fact that traditionally, torture doesn't work. It succeeds in getting the person being tortured to tell you what they think you want to hear, regardless of whether it is true or not. They just say whatever they think will make it stop.
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#19
Quote by jgbsmith
I'm sure there was a torture thread before, but it might have got deleted/closed because it ended up melting down into a huge christianity v atheism argument.


What doesn't these days?
#21
Quote by TheQuailman
He's absolutely correct. If you torture people, they will tell you what you want to hear, not what's true.

And there are no obviously guilty people. Even if they were, torture is NEVER legitimate, people don't lose their human rights, doesn't matter what they have done. You have human rights because you are human, hence you can't loose them.

My own, personal evaluation: This question is disgusting.


Bingo.


Well, that's true..

But if they really are hiding something, more than likely if they beat you half way to death, they're going to try and tell the truth..
#22
Quote by -Collapse-
What doesn't these days?

so true. Sometimes I just want to argue about something else for a change though, especially seeing as my religious views change on a day to day basis, whereas my morals remain cast in iron.

edit:
Quote by Filter
Well, that's true..

But if they really are hiding something, more than likely if they beat you half way to death, they're going to try and tell the truth..

but would they tell the truth when they could lie and still end the torture?
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Last edited by jgbsmith at Feb 13, 2009,
#23
Quote by sam b
What form of torture though

Psychological or physical torture to get information out of someone (anyone can inform me if I'm missing any other forms of torture, but I think those are the only two).

I realized that I never said what my opinion is, so I'll just say it here. Actually, it can be summed up by a quote of the devil from Reaper: "It's like when you torture someone, they'll say anything to make you stop."
Josh Homme writes the greatest lyrics EVAR:
"I wish we could get away
Drink wine and screw"


"Nicotine, valium, vicodin, marijuana, ecstasy, and alcohol
C-C-C-C-Cocaine!"


"I wanna lick you too much"



Own this Black Sabbath shirt?
#24
Quote by jgbsmith
I'm sure there was a torture thread before, but it might have got deleted/closed because it ended up melting down into a huge christianity v atheism argument.

Anyway, IMO torture is wrong, everyone deserves basic human rights. No one deserves physical punishment of any form for any crime. Torture has no real arguments for it because any information yielded through its use is likely to be unreliable as, put under enough pain, anyone will confess to anything. If someone thinks it'll make the pain stop, they'll say anything and if they do know something and don't want to tell you, then making shit up would appear the best option anyway.


Not necessarily, if they know that the repercussions for lying will be worse than what they're going through, then they have a pretty good reason to tell the truth
#25
Quote by maninthebox24
Psychological or physical torture to get information out of someone (anyone can inform me if I'm missing any other forms of torture, but I think those are the only two).



Way to be specific...
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#26
Quote by maninthebox24
Psychological or physical torture to get information out of someone (anyone can inform me if I'm missing any other forms of torture, but I think those are the only two).


Psychiatric?
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#27
Quote by jgbsmith
so true. Sometimes I just want to argue about something else for a change though, especially seeing as my religious views change on a day to day basis, whereas my morals remain cast in iron.

edit:
but would they tell the truth when they could lie and still end the torture?


Touche sir
#28
Quote by irishstang_87
Not necessarily, if they know that the repercussions for lying will be worse than what they're going through, then they have a pretty good reason to tell the truth

but if that lie was enough to fulfill their objective they could still do it.

Let's take the bomb scenario for example. A terrorist has been caught and knows of the whereabouts of a bomb that will go off in a city centre within a short space of time. If he lies under torture, his objective (blowing the city up) will be completed. Yes the personal repercussions could and probably would be enormous for the terrorist, they would, to him, pale into insignifigance compared with completing his objective and going to heaven/paradise/wherever crazy people go.
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#29
If going with the assumptions you've stated, option 3. This would probably almost never happen though.
#30
Quote by irishstang_87
Not necessarily, if they know that the repercussions for lying will be worse than what they're going through, then they have a pretty good reason to tell the truth



Doubtful. It's pretty hard to think beyond present consequences when your testicles are being electrocuted. Especially in the example that TS gave where in giving a false location for a bomb would accomplish the intended task of the real bomb blowing up before it can be found.


Edit: just read jgbsmith's post.
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die."-Duke
#31
Quote by Filter
Well, that's true..

But if they really are hiding something, more than likely if they beat you half way to death, they're going to try and tell the truth..

Quote by jgbsmith

but would they tell the truth when they could lie and still end the torture?

Yep, you can never be sure that what you're gonna get is the truth. But that is not the most important point about it. It's an act against human dignity. It can never, let me repeat this, never never never ever be justified, simply because of that. Human rights stand above everything else.
#32
Quote by jgbsmith
but if that lie was enough to fulfill their objective they could still do it.

Let's take the bomb scenario for example. A terrorist has been caught and knows of the whereabouts of a bomb that will go off in a city centre within a short space of time. If he lies under torture, his objective (blowing the city up) will be completed. Yes the personal repercussions could and probably would be enormous for the terrorist, they would, to him, pale into insignifigance compared with completing his objective and going to heaven/paradise/wherever crazy people go.


True, but outside of the context of that situation, what I said is still true. Lying once won't stop the torture indefinitely, it will only make things worse. When you're in a situation where death isn't an option, and your only outlook is more and more torture, you're going to crack and tell the truth.

EDIT: @Quailman - You've gotta keep in mind that in the kind of situations we're talking about the person in question has already violated the human rights of potentially hundreds of other people. Violating his human rights can be justified very easily. I agree that it's wrong, but there are times that it can be necessary.
Last edited by irishstang_87 at Feb 13, 2009,
#33
Quote by rabidguitarist
Psychiatric?

What's psychiatric torture? I've never heard of it, so I'll google it, but I'd appreciate a post in response.
Quote by JohnnyGenzale
Way to be specific...

What more do you want? Do you think that anyone might consider forcing someone to listen to the Jonas Brothers until they answer a question is really what I mean? My question is referring to the torture used by governments/militaries, the torture that humans rights activists abhor.
Josh Homme writes the greatest lyrics EVAR:
"I wish we could get away
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"Nicotine, valium, vicodin, marijuana, ecstasy, and alcohol
C-C-C-C-Cocaine!"


"I wanna lick you too much"



Own this Black Sabbath shirt?
#34
Quote by TheQuailman
Yep, you can never be sure that what you're gonna get is the truth. But that is not the most important point about it. It's an act against human dignity. It can never, let me repeat this, never never never ever be justified, simply because of that. Human rights stand above everything else.



Well played Quailman
#35
Sleep deprivation ftw

but no. as stated a person being tortured would confess to anything.
#36
Torture is ineffective. It produces false results, because people will just admit to whatever to avoid the torture.

it's bogus and doesn't even work, imo.
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#37
Quote by maninthebox24
What's psychiatric torture? I've never heard of it, so I'll google it, but I'd appreciate a post in response.

What more do you want? Do you think that anyone might consider forcing someone to listen to the Jonas Brothers until they answer a question is really what I mean? My question is referring to the torture used by governments/militaries, the torture that humans rights activists abhor.



I believe he wondered what kind of torture as in HOW to do it, as in, what method etc.
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#38
Quote by maninthebox24
What's psychiatric torture? I've never heard of it, so I'll google it, but I'd appreciate a post in response.


No idea.

I'm sure it's possible though. Like using drugs that affect the mind.
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#39
Quote by rabidguitarist
No idea.

I'm sure it's possible though. Like using drugs that affect the mind.

crack would be effective
#40
Quote by LordBishek
If going with the assumptions you've stated, option 3. This would probably almost never happen though.

Yeah, it probably wouldn't. Even if it did, you wouldn't know if torture would actually work.
Josh Homme writes the greatest lyrics EVAR:
"I wish we could get away
Drink wine and screw"


"Nicotine, valium, vicodin, marijuana, ecstasy, and alcohol
C-C-C-C-Cocaine!"


"I wanna lick you too much"



Own this Black Sabbath shirt?