#1
Hey there, im into heavy metal and thrash a lot(Metallica, anthrax, pantera, some newer stuff) and basically, for THAT genre i like to get as close to the tone of scooped mids as possible. Now When im by myself practicing, scooped mids is fine because there is no mix to cut through. Unfortunatly, when i play in a band situation i obviously have to crank the mids higher so i can be heard over every thing else, which is fine because i like mids.

BUT.

Its not giving me the sound i want for metal. My main focus is just Rythem, for leads i hit my footswitch with my amp to select a channel that has boosted mids and higher top end just for that, so i guess my question is:

How do you get a good sounding scooped sound that will cut through a live band situation?

I am using a Line 6 spider valve amp.
#3
It's hard to get a scooped sound that cuts through a band. The only way I've been able to get really audible scooped rhythm is to get a big amp and turn it up. But I usually just put the mids high enough that I come through, the pile on the bass and it sounds about the same.
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#4
Get an EQ pedal so you can scoop out the less important part of the midrange.

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#5
Quote by Checker
Get an EQ pedal so you can scoop out the less important part of the midrange.


This.
Specifically you'll probably want to cut your low-mids while retaining the high-mids.
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#6
there are some freqs that can be 'cut' to clean up the sound. and even some mid freqs that can be scooped out to still yield an audible tone. but to scoop out the entire mid range wouldn't be feasible in a band setting.

getting an EQ pedal will help to achieve in deciding which mid freqs you need and which you can live without.
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#7
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#8
Quote by The_Bosstone
I'm confused, thrash metal is all mids.


Puts on Slayer's War Ensamble

Scooped mids.

Puts on Anthrax's Belly of the Beast

Scooped mids.

Megadeth's Symphony of Destruction?

Scooped mids.

Metallica's..... I won't even get into Metallica.
#9
Quote by Checker
Get an EQ pedal so you can scoop out the less important part of the midrange.


+1.

I've found it works best to leave the amp's mids knob up reasonably high, then scoop using an EQ in the loop. This way the amp's preamp reacts properly, and you can scoop out a narrow range of mids while leaving as much of the upper and lower mids intact as possible.
#10
Quote by some_dude_2
Puts on Slayer's War Ensamble

Scooped mids.

Slayer boosts the crap out of their mids. Metallica scoops.
Then there's this band called Slice The Cake...

Bunch of faggots putting random riffs together and calling it "progressive" deathcore.
Stupid name.
Probably picked "for teh lulz"

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#11
eq pedal and raise your middle mid and scoop your low mids. lower your high mids and raise high and low.
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#12
Quote by Shinozoku
Slayer boosts the crap out of their mids. Metallica scoops.


Slayer boosts the crap out of their JCM800s.... their mids on the other hand....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=481ba-SO0Zc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnLT2EfLepo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwLtTa2trRs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SdmsWBO7O4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyD02UkZ9lE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvziImJZRkw

Point made?
Last edited by some_dude_2 at Feb 13, 2009,
#13
Quote by Checker
Get an EQ pedal so you can scoop out the less important part of the midrange.


yes, scoop out the lower midrange (i think its around like 800-1k hz, might be wrong on that) and boost the higher midrange (maybe around 2k-4k ). thrash metal is much more mid-oriented than people think though, so many of them used jcm800s, very mid heavy amps, as well as tube screamers, which contain midrange boosts from what i've collected.

EDIT: ^ are you saying slayer scoops or boosts? im not good at knowing what to consider scooped or not
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Last edited by nutinpwnsgibson at Feb 13, 2009,
#14
Quote by nutinpwnsgibson

EDIT: ^ are you saying slayer scoops or boosts? im not good at knowing what to consider scooped or not


JCM800s don't have alot of gain. Most metal bands that use them boost them to get more distortion.

Some guys use SD-1s or Tubescreamers (both of which also cut bottom end and boost midrange), Slayer uses a Boss RGE-10 EQ. The whole point is to make the guitar signal hotter to boost the amp so it distorts more.

However, Slayer clearly has a scooped tone on most (though not all) of their songs. I'm not sure if they're scooping using the mid knob on their Marshalls or if they're running another EQ in their rack to pull the mids out after the preamp. Pictures of Kerry's rack are few and far between, and I can't find one thanks to the pages and pages of signature gear that pops up in Google when I try to search for it.
Last edited by some_dude_2 at Feb 13, 2009,
#15
so...

no one thinks he might need a better amp for it to be a little more "cutting"?

thats a first.

but I uhnno, Mids are an essential part of tone.
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#16
I know pushing a V30 loaded cab with your mids rolled back a bit really cuts through. A good heavy midrange speaker helps a lot.
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#17
Quote by STABxYOU
This.
Specifically you'll probably want to cut your low-mids while retaining the high-mids.

I was actually going to suggest cutting the high mids and retaining the low mids for more punch.
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#18
Quote by gregs1020
I was actually going to suggest cutting the high mids and retaining the low mids for more punch.


Depends on if he wants to be the biting buzzsaw or the chugging engine.
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#19
Quote by STABxYOU
Depends on if he wants to be the biting buzzsaw or the chugging engine.

I was going for chugging engine. But I see what you mean.
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#20
Quote by some_dude_2
Slayer boosts the crap out of their JCM800s.... their mids on the other hand....





-From the December 2007 Guitar World, Pg. 50, Kerry King on his Signature amp.
"You can either add more or less tone,adds King You can't adjust all 10 EQ bands individually. My chunk comes from those boosted mids."
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#21
Quote by cavalier14
-From the December 2007 Guitar World, Pg. 50, Kerry King on his Signature amp.
"You can either add more or less tone,adds King You can't adjust all 10 EQ bands individually. My chunk comes from those boosted mids."


Thanks. I already covered that above.
Last edited by some_dude_2 at Feb 14, 2009,
#22
Quote by some_dude_2
Thanks. That's what I said above.




Sorry, I totally missed that.
Quote by Sid McCall
Yeah, they don't arrest/ticket hobos because they can't pay the fines. Then they hang out in the jail all day eating free food. There's no point.


Quote by Brendan.Clace
Oh god...this thread....it is going places....
#23
Quote by cavalier14


Sorry, I totally missed that.


He's boosting the mids going into the preamp. The amp tone itself is still scooped. It's really no different than boosting with a SD-1 for more gain, then pulling your mids down on the amp to get a heavier sound.

All you have to do is listen and it's so obvious.... the tone is scooped so wide you could drive a truck through the gap in the midrange.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rMN-_rxhpQ