#1
title says it all. im very interested in that whole classical style of music, and have always wondered about the violin. anyone that plays, how hard is it in comparison?
Quote by LesPaulHer0
"in the grand scheme of things, nobody cares"



Gear:
Dean 10K Commemorative Razorback
Ibanez RG 3EX1
BC Rich Mockingbird Evil Edge
Fender Acoustic
Marshall MG250DFX
Ibanez Weeping Demon Wah
Electro Harmonix Small Clone Full Chorus
#2
Well I got a violin for christmas, so:

Pros:
-You will have developed (I assume) finger independence and dexterity to some point.
-If you know some theory you can obviously apply it to the violin.

Cons:
-I still can't tune the damn thing, the pegs are much more sensitive, and I only have fine tuners on one string.
-Bowing is COMPLETELY different from picking.
-Playing position is essential, else the instrument won`t even stay in place and shifting becomes virtually impossible.
-There are no frets...
Rig:
MIM Fender Strat

Vox V847A Wah
Dunlop JH-F1 Fuzz Face
Boss DS-1
Ibanez Tube Screamer TS9 x2!!!
Boss Passive A/B Box
Boss BF-3 Flanger
Boss Volume Pedal

Marshall 4203 Artist 30Watt Tube
Epiphone Electar Tube 30
#3
takes so much discipline that it takes any fun out of playing the damn thing.

my girlfriend played since she was about 6 and she's 18 now. she tried to teach me some stuff yesterday and i absolutely hated it.
#4
well i have some knowledge of theory, and im used to no frets since often i play on a fretless bass. i realize its a different field, but its one im interested in regardless. Thx for the input guy
Quote by LesPaulHer0
"in the grand scheme of things, nobody cares"



Gear:
Dean 10K Commemorative Razorback
Ibanez RG 3EX1
BC Rich Mockingbird Evil Edge
Fender Acoustic
Marshall MG250DFX
Ibanez Weeping Demon Wah
Electro Harmonix Small Clone Full Chorus
#5
I'd say FUCK YEAH!

The bowing technique is very different than picking, and there's a strict posture for playing violin properly, not like guitar, where you could just put your guitar on either lap. Also, there's tuning issues and no frets, but I'd definitely pick it up.
If you play guitar, please don't waste your time in The Pit, and please instead educate yourself in the Musician Talk forum, where you can be missing out on valuable info.
Quote by DiminishedFifth
It's like you read my mind!

I got meself a self-approving sig. Kick. Ass.
#6
You can play classical music on your guitar. I don't want to tell you not to play the violin if you really want to learn, but don't do it because you think it's necessary for playing classical music.
#7
If you get a good teacher, you'll be fine. Of course the same could be said for all instruments...

Bowing technique will the most difficult thing for you to get a hang of, and to be quite honest, it won't be easy. It'll be an absolute nightmare to really unlock your wrist and be able to properly and fluently utilize it in bow control (and it is necessary!) and you will probably have to saw away at open strings for hours before you can even begin to emit a beautiful tone, but the violin is a very beautiful instrument and there is a wealth of great music written for it making it very much worth the trouble.
#8
id say take up mandolin first. they are tuned the same, have about the same scale length and have four strings. you wont be bowing, but because it has frets it might be easier to transfer to violin after you learn mandolin because your fingers are a little more used to the patterns.

thats what im doing anyway. last night i tried my friends violin out and just from playing a bit of mandoling this week i already foun it much easier. you need a good ear though for violin. because if you dont, it will sound like crap.

and i dont think bowing is much harder to master than picking. id say they are equal in difficulty. but if you are used to one of them, the other will seem a little strange for sure. so that might take some time to learn.

also, another thing i find wierd at first is that on guitar, the major scale is usually 3 notes per string and sometimes withing a shape 2 notes. but on an instrument tuned in 5ths like violin and mandolin, the are 4 notes per string usually and sometimes 3 depending on the position. so that i found a little strange at first but you get used to it.
#10
IS the "no-frets" on violin really that hard?

Ofcourse it's hard from the start, but I mean you will get it down within a year easily right?

I mean, on a guitar when bending you have to bend in tune also (by ear), and Most people get that down quite fast too (unless ur fingers are not string enough or something).

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#12
Quote by xxdarrenxx
IS the "no-frets" on violin really that hard?

Ofcourse it's hard from the start, but I mean you will get it down within a year easily right?

I mean, on a guitar when bending you have to bend in tune also (by ear), and Most people get that down quite fast too (unless ur fingers are not string enough or something).


True, you're fingers soon learn where the notes are, and as long as you use your ears you should be ok - if you already play guitar reasonably well and get a decent teacher, then by the end of a year I reckon you should be able to play in first position without a problem, and probably be venturing into 2nd/3rd position. I think the hardest thing would be learning to bow properly.

You definitely need a teacher to start with - if only to sort your posture out. If you are not holding the violin or the bow properly, or either of your hands/wrists is in the wrong position you will seriously hamper your ability to play.

If you do struggle with the lack of frets to start with, most teacher use coloured dots for beginners anyway, to show them where their fingers should go.

Be warned though, it will sound like you are strangling a cat rather than playing an instrument for at least the first couple of months
#13
Quote by zhilla
True, you're fingers soon learn where the notes are, and as long as you use your ears you should be ok - if you already play guitar reasonably well and get a decent teacher, then by the end of a year I reckon you should be able to play in first position without a problem, and probably be venturing into 2nd/3rd position. I think the hardest thing would be learning to bow properly.

You definitely need a teacher to start with - if only to sort your posture out. If you are not holding the violin or the bow properly, or either of your hands/wrists is in the wrong position you will seriously hamper your ability to play.

If you do struggle with the lack of frets to start with, most teacher use coloured dots for beginners anyway, to show them where their fingers should go.

Be warned though, it will sound like you are strangling a cat rather than playing an instrument for at least the first couple of months


Yes, bowing like good picking technique on guitar takes years too master, I can imagine.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#14
I know a guy that spent a few months noodling on a fretless bass. He has a damn awesome ear now, can play any melody on a fretless instruments and can tune his instrument by ear. I don't think he remembers where each note is, I think he just know by ear now.

And yes, the whole fretless thing is increadibly hard and it's why I haven't played my violin in months.

I didn't find bowing too difficult, you need a special touch though. I don't sound like a real violinist though.
        ,
        |\
[U]        | |                     [/U]
[U]        |/     .-.              [/U]
[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
[U]      //| \      |       |      [/U]
[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
        |
        L.
#15
Quote by zhilla
True, you're fingers soon learn where the notes are, and as long as you use your ears you should be ok - if you already play guitar reasonably well and get a decent teacher, then by the end of a year I reckon you should be able to play in first position without a problem, and probably be venturing into 2nd/3rd position. I think the hardest thing would be learning to bow properly.

You definitely need a teacher to start with - if only to sort your posture out. If you are not holding the violin or the bow properly, or either of your hands/wrists is in the wrong position you will seriously hamper your ability to play.

If you do struggle with the lack of frets to start with, most teacher use coloured dots for beginners anyway, to show them where their fingers should go.

Be warned though, it will sound like you are strangling a cat rather than playing an instrument for at least the first couple of months

First couple of months? Try first couple of years.

Everyone has said that bowing is the most difficult part but I think that, while bowing is pretty damn hard, playing in tune is the hardest part.

With guitar you have a huge scope for where you can put you finger in a fret (like cms) and you will still get the right note and even when you're bending you sort of bend up to the note so you can hear when to stop (it is better compared to when you bend first, then pick).

On the violin you will have to concentrate on playing in tune ALL THE TIME. If you hear someone say that they can always play in tune (even if only in first possition) then they probably have a pretty bad ear if their idea of "in tune" is so loose. A good teacher is very helpful with this aspect because they can hear when you go out of tune (it's hard to hear sometimes when you are concentrating on other things) even a little bit.

But really, even when you've played for years you're not always dead in tune and if you are playing chalenging pieces (which you should always be doing) then you're definitely going to go out of tune. So don't think that playing in tune is not that big a deal because it is basically is the most important thing, it doesn't matter if you're hitting the right notes, if you're out of tune it will sound awful.

Really, you should spend at least a couple of years in first position so you are totally confident and can play in tune in it before you start going into third position. If you are not 100% sure of your first position it will make everything even harder when you are trying to relate third position to first. After that you can then go on to 2nd/4th/5th/6th and even higher positions (Bb major scale 3 octaves, anyone?).

Personally, I've never used coloured dots because A: My teacher never gave me any (and I was lke 9 when I started so I wouldn't exactly question it) and B: Because you should be putting your fingers down in accordance with you ears, not your eyes.

Bowing is almost the opposite of what I've said about playing in tune, once you can bow basic things (as long as you practise) you will always be able to bow basic things. However, bowing is hard because that is where all the articulation and dynamic contrast comes from so to be good you have to be able to bow really well.

^As for sounding like a "real violinist", one thing that makes you sound a lot less amatuer that hasn't actually been mentioned yet is vibrato. If you listen to a proffesional playing as soon as they get a long note they will put some amount of vibrato on it (if it is a romantic style piece they'll probably put more than a largely stacato 20th century piece).

If you are just starting to play don't worry about vibrato yet because vibrato is varying the pitch of the note but you can't do that very well if you can't get the pitch the note should be first. However, a few years in your teacher will probably show you the basics of vibrato and as you practise it you will get a lot better. When you can do vibrato well you will really enjoy doing it, at least I do, because it just makes you sound so much better.

Violin is hard work and it has a much steeper learning curve than guitar but when you get good the rewards are great.

I would strongly suggest getting a good teacher (one with a teaching and playing degree ect.) because they can make all the difference and they can plan your learning so all you have to worry about it practising. Also, I would suggest sticking with the teacher because the more advanced you get the better your technique needs to be and the more you need a teacher.

Edit:
Quote by xxdarrenxx
IS the "no-frets" on violin really that hard?

Ofcourse it's hard from the start, but I mean you will get it down within a year easily right?

I mean, on a guitar when bending you have to bend in tune also (by ear), and Most people get that down quite fast too (unless ur fingers are not string enough or something).

As I've said, playing in tune isn't really something you can learn then just be able to do. Although if you gave me a piece of easy music I would play it pretty much dead in tune, the pieces I'm learning right now are hard for me so I play out of tune a lot more often because I'm concentrating on other things.

With bending you often bend up to the note so you can use your ear to tell you when to stop. Playing in tune on the violin is more like when you bend without playing then pick. Also, with position shifts you have to put you first finger down in a totally different place and it has to be in tune, there is so sliding up to that note (well sometimes there is, but you can't depend on that).
Last edited by 12345abcd3 at Feb 17, 2009,
#16
Violin definitely harder due to the technique. However, one of my friends is amazing at violin, and she let me try one of hers and I could play smoke on the water riff within 5 minutes of teaching myself. So it's not impossible. But I would recommend getting a teacher.

I don't think no frets would really be too much of an issue, since most people don't even look at them on guitar, or look at piano keys. You just learn where they are.
I'm not a Bible-thumper anymore. Realized I had a brain in '09.

I like guitars, running, and math.
Last edited by Psalm 150:4 at Feb 17, 2009,
#17
Quote by Psalm 150:4
I don't think no frets would really be too much of an issue, since most people don't even look at them on guitar, or look at piano keys. You just learn where they are
You do have to be a lot more accurate on a violin though - like 12345abcd3 said if you are a fraction out you will be out of tune, but as long as you listen to what you are playing and take it slowly you'll manage.

Quote by 12345abcd3
one thing that makes you sound a lot less amatuer that hasn't actually been mentioned yet is vibrato
True - but I'd also agree not to worry about vibrato just yet. I wouldn't even think about trying vibrato for a looong time - I remember learning vibrato on my violin and it was a chore, I seem to remember spending hours with my scroll pressed against a wall trying to make my fingers do what I wanted them to lol

Re the months vs years - I was being optimistic If you're either out of tune (even slightly) or your bowing is a bit rough, it'll sounds like a strangled cat. I don't know how long I was doing tortured cat impersonations for - I'd definitely go for years though - but I started at 5, so I'm assuming (hoping?) that TS will progress a bit quicker than I did at that age
#18
Everyone can hear if it's in tune or not. IF you can't hear it then you can't spot it, and it wouldn't make a difference too ur ear

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??