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#1
Listening to these two styles of music I can sense a contrast but what really defines a band to be one or another? Yes I know deathcore is a combination of death metal and metalcore but when listening to typical deathcore bands like suicide silence I can't really hear any metalcore in the music.

What elements in the music could you identify and use to apply them to one of the genres? I'm curious.
#2
B-b-b-b-breakdoooooowns.
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#3
Quote by The Frayed Ends
B-b-b-b-breakdoooooowns.

Ahhh yeah On deathcore I assume? But there must be more than that right?
#4
Death metal has breakdowns too, especially slam death metal and brutal death metal but they use them differently.

Listen to some Dying Fetus and some Suffocation to see how death metal uses them.
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#5
Quote by STABxYOU
Death metal has breakdowns too, especially slam death metal and brutal death metal but they use them differently.

Listen to some Dying Fetus and some Suffocation to see how death metal uses them.

Been listening to a bit of Dying Fetus and can tell they're death metal and I see what you mean about the breakdowns; they don't emphasize on them as much don't they as they don't stay in them for long and they don't kill the pace as much.

But there must be more to it than the breakdowns.
#7
I dont know exactly how to describe the difference, but I can tell the difference
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while f
#8
But surely you can see the difference between, say, a band like Cannibal Corpse and a band like Whitechapel, right?
After a while you're just able to tell.
#9
Quote by rebeltildeth87
I dont know exactly how to describe the difference, but I can tell the difference

Yeah same here and starting this thread hopefully could increase mine and others' understanding on the genres.

Quote by dminishedthingy
But surely you can see the difference between, say, a band like Cannibal Corpse and a band like Whitechapel, right?
After a while you're just able to tell.

Yeah obviously but on general I don't know strict definitions which would class a band as either of the two.
#10
Eeeeh, from what I've listened, a lot of deathcore tries to be as stereotypically brutal sounding as possible (listen to Worship Your Demons- Cryptopsy or any new Whitechapel). The less talented Deathcore bands usually have guitarists doing nothing but chugging. Some of it can be pretty fun, with all the chugging being like a more death metal meshuggah, but most seem to me like they really have no artistic merit, just scene kids jumping on a new trend. I do like All Shall Perish and Many Things Untold though, and Despised Icon seem like a pretty decent deathcore band.

EDIT: Deathcore has a lot of talented drummers, though
#11
After a while, you can just tell.. the vocals and breakdowns are what separate it usually. Listen to more death metal to find out what that sounds like, then listen to some deathcore.. it's not difficult.
#12
its simple

deathcore is the **** one

death metal is good music that isn't a new little trend for the pussies
#13
I can always tell a band is deathcore and not death metal before listening to it just by the name, AND SO CAN YOU!

Bring Me the Horizon is clearly Deathcore/Screamo/Emo/Garbage, just by the name.
Cannibal Corpse is easily death metal by the name.
As Blood Runs Black is easily deathcore by the name.
Carnal Decay is obviously death metal by the name.

Easy, huh?

Also, breakdowns, emo crying, whining vocals, and horrible lyrics.

Also appearance. Short hair, gauged ears, snake bite piercings, other piercings, etc. Some death metal musicians have short hair/bald (i.e: Muhammed Suicmez, Galder, Jon Nodtveidt), but it's pretty easy to differentiate.

Either way. Steer clear of any core genre.
#15
I actually agree with the first part of your post. The part about the appearance is just bull**** though as is the apart about staying away from all "core".
Last edited by \Powerslave/ at Feb 20, 2009,
#16
Galder and Nodtveidt death metal? I thought they were Black metal. Well they're more famous for black metal anyway.
EDIT: To the xchristgrinderx guy.
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Last edited by mr kipling at Feb 20, 2009,
#17
deathcore = death metal + breakdowns + 2 step + extreme drumming

there are the good and bad of each genre, new whitechapel = **** compared to their older stuff. i would rather listen to a band with one amazing breakdown per cd than 5 mediocre ones per song. its all about a balance between heavy chugga breet and melodious tones. carnifex = good deathcore.

and lolz, the noob who said ABRB is deathcore needs to get checked for enchephilitis
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#18
maybe you shouldn't stay away from all -core

but you definitly should stay away from most of it
its boring trendy generic thrash for the most part

the best metalcore you will find is between the buried and me and converge

deathcore, well i cant stand any of it, its watered down death metal
#19
Quote by mr kipling
Galder and Nodtveidt death metal? I thought they were Black metal. Well they're more famous for black metal anyway.
EDIT: To the xchristgrinderx guy.


Well, I was just giving examples for metal appearances. I should've specified that they're not any less metal for it.

And come on, if you don't agree with deathcore appearances you have to be f**ked in the head. Besides, this forum is called Metal. Deathcore and Metalcore are not metal. They're imitation metal. Deathcore is just an excuse to bring mainstream to the real metal.

And the only "core" band I respect is Whitechapel. Other than the appearance, their sound is pretty death metal, so at least they're giving about 30%. ^_^
#20
Quote by xChristgrindeRx
Well, I was just giving examples for metal appearances. I should've specified that they're not any less metal for it.

And come on, if you don't agree with deathcore appearances you have to be f**ked in the head. Besides, this forum is called Metal. Deathcore and Metalcore are not metal. They're imitation metal. Deathcore is just an excuse to bring mainstream to the real metal.


Of course it is.

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Hmm judging from your pic you'd fit in more with a fat busted tribute.
#22
Quote by shadowsoldier08
deathcore = death metal + breakdowns + 2 step + extreme drumming

and lolz, the noob who said ABRB is deathcore needs to get checked for enchephilitis


I lol'd
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Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
#23
Quote by shadowsoldier08
deathcore = death metal + breakdowns + 2 step + extreme drumming

there are the good and bad of each genre, new whitechapel = **** compared to their older stuff. i would rather listen to a band with one amazing breakdown per cd than 5 mediocre ones per song. its all about a balance between heavy chugga breet and melodious tones. carnifex = good deathcore.

and lolz, the noob who said ABRB is deathcore needs to get checked for enchephilitis


Because they are deathcore...
#24
In deathcore there tends to be more of the high pitched im-ruining-my-voice screaming. That and the obligatory chug chug chug bree bree bree breakdown and repeat
#25
Deathcore isn't a real genre, imo.

I like to categorize core-influenced metal (or with breakdowns) as follows:

"Death Metal with breakdowns"- Most bands here are Brutal or Slam, but there are others in other subgenres. Breakdowns used are well-placed and awesome.

Some examples - Suffocation, Gojira, Glass Casket, Through the Eyes of the Dead, The Faceless

"Metalcore" - As the name implies, music that is an actual fusion of metal and hardcore (punk). Too many bands that call themselves "metalcore" are not actually metalcore--see next section. Like in the previous section, breakdowns are used sparingly and purposefully.

Some examples - Botch, Converge, Between the Buried and Me (though they're sorta in between this category and the above), Premonitions of War, Architects, Misery Signals, After the Burial

The above two categories contain legit, good music, made with the music in mind, not popularity or money.

And now we have a drastic shift, as all -core that's watered-down-(melo)death-with-weak-riffs-and-terrible-breakdowns-plastered-wherever-possible made to please the shallow scenekid crowd, more colloquially known as "deathcore" and "metalcore" (the shit kind), respectively, can be grouped together into one, fat, avoid-like-plague category:

"Shitcore". I don't think I really need to list any bands in this group.
Last edited by Lappo at Feb 20, 2009,
#26
I think I've got a good apprehension on the contrast between genres now. And for which is better it is totally opinionated. You may say BMTH suck but there one of my if not my favourite bands even though I love Cannibal Corpse (I saw them on sunday 15/02/09).

Quote by Lappo
Deathcore isn't a real genre, imo.

I like to categorize core-influenced metal (or with breakdowns) as follows:

"Death Metal with breakdowns"- Most bands here are Brutal or Slam, but there are others in other subgenres. Breakdowns used are well-placed and awesome.

Some examples - Suffocation, Gojira, Glass Casket, Through the Eyes of the Dead, The Faceless

"Metalcore" - As the name implies, music that is an actual fusion of metal and hardcore (punk). Too many bands that call themselves "metalcore" are not actually metalcore--see next section. Like in the previous section, breakdowns are used sparingly and purposefully.

Some examples - Botch, Converge, Premonitions of War, Architects, Misery Signals, After the Burial

The above two categories contain legit, good music, made with the music in mind, not popularity or money.

And now we have a drastic shift, as all -core that's watered-down-(melo)death-with-weak-riffs-and-terrible-breakdowns-plastered-wherever-possible made to please the shallow scenekid crowd can be grouped together into one, fat, avoid-like-plague category:

"Shitcore". I don't think I really need to list any bands in this group.

But if it makes money then people must like it.

And you say the shallow scenekid crowd aren't allowed their type of music? If they like deathcore and not true death metal then why should that not be allowed?

Oh and edit: I'm seeing Gojira 18/03/09 =]
Last edited by reverend_jake at Feb 20, 2009,
#27
Quote by Lappo
Deathcore isn't a real genre, imo.

I like to categorize core-influenced metal (or with breakdowns) as follows:

"Death Metal with breakdowns"- Most bands here are Brutal or Slam, but there are others in other subgenres. Breakdowns used are well-placed and awesome.

Some examples - Suffocation, Gojira, Glass Casket, Through the Eyes of the Dead, The Faceless

"Metalcore" - As the name implies, music that is an actual fusion of metal and hardcore (punk). Too many bands that call themselves "metalcore" are not actually metalcore--see next section. Like in the previous section, breakdowns are used sparingly and purposefully.

Some examples - Botch, Converge, Premonitions of War, Architects, Misery Signals, After the Burial

The above two categories contain legit, good music, made with the music in mind, not popularity or money.

And now we have a drastic shift, as all -core that's watered-down-(melo)death-with-weak-riffs-and-terrible-breakdowns-plastered-wherever-possible made to please the shallow scenekid crowd can be grouped together into one, fat, avoid-like-plague category:

"Shitcore". I don't think I really need to list any bands in this group.


Minus a little bit of objectivity, this is the post that the TS needs.

And, Misery Signals are EXCELLENt.
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Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
#28
Quote by reverend_jake
But if it makes money then people must like it.

And you say the shallow scenekid crowd aren't allowed their type of music? If they like deathcore and not true death metal then why should that not be allowed?


Sure they are.

It's called "shitcore"


I also slightly edited my original post cause I left out a couple of things.
#29
Quote by Lappo
Sure they are.

It's called "shitcore"


I also slightly edited my original post cause I left out a couple of things.

Let me edit that:

Opinionated-****core

And going onto the metalcore argument about bands like Earth Crisis, Converge, Botch etc. I'm not a real fan of those bands but I am a fan of modern metalcore like IKTPQ and AILD because those two bands have more of a stronger melodic structure which I see in music even though I'm not saying they are better as I like Botch and aren't Botch classed as Mathcore anyway?
#30
Quote by reverend_jake
Let me edit that:

Opinionated-****core

And going onto the metalcore argument about bands like Earth Crisis, Converge, Botch etc. I'm not a real fan of those bands but I am a fan of modern metalcore like IKTPQ and AILD because those two bands have more of a stronger melodic structure which I see in music even though I'm not saying they are better as I like Botch and aren't Botch classed as Mathcore anyway?


The only band you could really say is "mathcore" is Dillinger. A more appropriate label for the rest that are called "mathcore" would be technical and/or prog metalcore. So they're within metalcore. "Mathcore" is a very silly term, to be quite honest.
#31
Quote by Lappo
The only band you could really say is "mathcore" is Dillinger. A more appropriate label for the rest that are called "mathcore" would be technical and/or prog metalcore. So they're within metalcore. "Mathcore" is a very silly term, to be quite honest.

That's what mathcore is, technical/progressive metalcore it's just a shorter term for it
#32
Quote by piratemetalhead
Eeeeh, from what I've listened, a lot of deathcore tries to be as stereotypically brutal sounding as possible (listen to Worship Your Demons- Cryptopsy or any new Whitechapel). The less talented Deathcore bands usually have guitarists doing nothing but chugging. Some of it can be pretty fun, with all the chugging being like a more death metal meshuggah, but most seem to me like they really have no artistic merit, just scene kids jumping on a new trend. I do like All Shall Perish and Many Things Untold though, and Despised Icon seem like a pretty decent deathcore band.

EDIT: Deathcore has a lot of talented drummers, though

+1

Also, Deathcore, on the whole, it a lot more beat heavy, which comes from its hardcore influence. It's meant to be music to jump around to, and to just freak out with. So, the chuggs usually drive the rhythms and the beats as much as the drums, making it feel more energetic.


Alsol, like most everyone else said, after time, you just start telling them apart naturally. It's hard to explain, kind of.
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#33
I agree with Christgrinder. Appearance doesnt make you more or less metal, but honestly you can look at a bands picture and tell what sound they have most of the time. Thats not stereotyping, its common sense. I could pull up a youtube video of any of those bands, mute it, and most likely tell you what they sound like. Weither its right or not, imagery plays a big role in not just music, life. Should image play a role in music? I like to think no, but it does.
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while f
#34
Quote by rebeltildeth87
I agree with Christgrinder. Appearance doesnt make you more or less metal, but honestly you can look at a bands picture and tell what sound they have most of the time. Thats not stereotyping, its common sense. I could pull up a youtube video of any of those bands, mute it, and most likely tell you what they sound like. Weither its right or not, imagery plays a big role in not just music, life. Should image play a role in music? I like to think no, but it does.

Yeah it does but it adds an extra element to your appreciation for the band. Conventionally you should listen to music and judge whether you like it; then you can look into their image and appreciate that as well and judge on that but if you had Cannibal Corpse who were a bunch of emo kids it wouldn't change the fact that they rock and are one of the best bands ever, it would just give you an idea of who is behind the music you are listening to and how they are.
#35
Quote by reverend_jake
Yeah it does but it adds an extra element to your appreciation for the band. Conventionally you should listen to music and judge whether you like it; then you can look into their image and appreciate that as well and judge on that but if you had Cannibal Corpse who were a bunch of emo kids it wouldn't change the fact that they rock and are one of the best bands ever, it would just give you an idea of who is behind the music you are listening to and how they are.


i agree. If I heard a new band who sounded great and they looked like emo kids I would listen to their music reguardless of image. Im just saying, in most cases you can look at a band and tell what they sound like. You can look at a bands logo and tell what they sound like. You can even look at album art and tell what most bands sound like.
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while f
#36
Quote by rebeltildeth87
i agree. If I heard a new band who sounded great and they looked like emo kids I would listen to their music reguardless of image. Im just saying, in most cases you can look at a band and tell what they sound like. You can look at a bands logo and tell what they sound like. You can even look at album art and tell what most bands sound like.

Yeah I agree with you 100%
#37
Quote by xChristgrindeRx
I can always tell a band is deathcore and not death metal before listening to it just by the name, AND SO CAN YOU!

Bring Me the Horizon is clearly Deathcore/Screamo/Emo/Garbage, just by the name.
Cannibal Corpse is easily death metal by the name.
As Blood Runs Black is easily deathcore by the name.
Carnal Decay is obviously death metal by the name.

Easy, huh?

Also, breakdowns, emo crying, whining vocals, and horrible lyrics.

Also appearance. Short hair, gauged ears, snake bite piercings, other piercings, etc. Some death metal musicians have short hair/bald (i.e: Muhammed Suicmez, Galder, Jon Nodtveidt), but it's pretty easy to differentiate.

Either way. Steer clear of any core genre.

Says the guy with X's in his name...

And name and appearance have nothing to do with how the music sounds. Seriously, not all deathcore is bad. All Shall Perish is one of my favorite bands, yet they are deathcore. Some people consider the first album by The Faceless to be deathcore, but it is amazing. And The Red Chord are pretty good too. This is all my opinion, but you shouldn't judge music just on what people label them as.
#38
To that guy who says ABRB are deathcore, I can't help but lol.

Look at the writing styles, and the riff structures. Compare any tab for an ABRB song off their first album and then compare it to any old As I Lay Dying tab. They're pretty much identical. Well, not really, but they're all built the same way. Chug the open C string, hit either the 8th, 7th, or 5th fret on the G.

Then look at a tab for a deathcore song. I mean real deathcore. It's totally different.
#39
Quote by reverend_jake
That's what mathcore is, technical/progressive metalcore it's just a shorter term for it


But a dumb one. :- \
#40
Quote by Lappo
But a dumb one. :- \

Not really, IMO.

Meshuggah is called math metal by a lot of people, and that's all they are. Technical progressive metal, they've just also added death and industrial stylings, as well.

Protest the Hero always comes to mind for me with mathcore. Like Meshuggah, they're technical and progressive, they're just based around metalcore. So, IMO, they're mathcore.

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