#1
I am incredibly sick of my rig. Don't get my wrong, it sounds AMAZING. However, the pedal dancing and guess work of what to bring to a gig is quite annoying. So.....I am selling (almost) everything and building this monster:

Two Rock Custom Reverb Signature head
Engl Blackmore head

My trusty Matchless 412*
Two Rock 212

Furman Pro Factor Series Power Conditioner
Peterson Stroborack Virtual Rack tuner*
ISP Technologies Decimator Pro Rack G
Dunlop Custom Shop DCR-2SR Rackmount Wah*
TC Electronics 2290 Dynamic Digital Delay (this is going to be a bitch to find)
Voodoo Labs GCX Switcher

Pedal drawer(s):
Hermida Zendrive*
Xotic RC Booster
Analogman NKT 275 Sunface*
Skreddy Lunar Module
RetroSonic Phaser*
Skreddy Echo
Evantide Timefactor
EHX POG*
Digitech Whammy

Voodoo Labs PP2 (x2)
Mogami Cables

On the floor:
CAE Foot controller
Control for the wah
Control for the whammy
EB Volume Pedal*

This is leaving out some of the technical stuff, but you get the idea. What do you guys think? Any more ideas?

(I already have the items starred)

BTW, I am getting more studio work and getting away from the bubble-gum pop stuff. I need an incredibly versatile rig.

EDIT: I am still in the saving stages, so this won't get into full swing until at least summer. Also, selling my stuff will be quite hard.
Last edited by colin617 at Feb 23, 2009,
#4
Teh tonez! Dey b 2 much 4 1 persun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude, we all know you already pretty much have your heart set on all of this and we also ALL know what you're doing here.....

...making us all jealous
Gibson Les Paul Studio
Highway One Telecaster
Dean Evo
Mesa F-50
Laney GH50L
Vox AC30 C2
Ampeg V2
pedals
#5
Quote by GuitarFreak1387
what are you getting rid of? I might be interested.

Btw new rig sounds to be sweet!!!!


Everything except my Nashville Tele (it belonged to my Uncle who was one hell of a player), ES 335 (maybe...I love this guitar, but it would bring in some nice change), the Silver Jubilee (it is just cool to say I have one), and the things starred in the list. Click to links in my sig to see what else I have and make me an offer.

To the guy above me: I have a nice guitar (2005 American Fender Nashville B-Bender Tele). I want a PRS Custom 24, but that isn't a very pressing issue. All of the effects are going into a true bypass loop and are, for the most part, analogue. I am trying to fight the digital fakeness that ruins most rack rigs (cough petrucci cough)
#6
Quote by LaidBack
Teh tonez! Dey b 2 much 4 1 persun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude, we all know you already pretty much have your heart set on all of this and we also ALL know what you're doing here.....

...making us all jealous


Actually, I don't. Haha. I am torn between the ENGL and a Diezel Einstein. I'm really hoping Zachman pops in here; I have some questions that I know he can answer.
#7
I haven't played either, but out of the two, I would go Einstein.
Gibson Les Paul Studio
Highway One Telecaster
Dean Evo
Mesa F-50
Laney GH50L
Vox AC30 C2
Ampeg V2
pedals
#8
Some people are going to disagree with me on this one, but I couldn't stand the CAE Midi controllers (love everything else they make though). I found the Axess FX-1 to be easier to work with (both programming and playing) if you needs lots of global IA control, but after spending months screwing around with Midi controllers I ended up with the Rocktron All Access as it's phenomenally intuitive to program and can have different IA switch layouts for each preset. Your controller needs to suit you, so try to organize a chance to play with a few of them before you buy.

Next on the agenda is the GCX. While still pretty much an industry standard it's quickly falling out of favor with a lot of people because it lacks the ability to store it's own presets. You need to use a total of 8 CC# messages (either custom messages or IA switches) to have complete control of a GCX if you aren't using a Ground Control Pro. The Rocktron Patchmate and RJM RG-16 can accomplish the same feat using only a single Program Change message (the RG-16 also has 8 function switches in addition to 8 audio loops for controlling amps and other miscellaneous things). RJM also has a product called the Effect Gizmo that has 12 audio loops instead of 8 if you need the extra capacity. Then there's the Switchblade line from SoundSculpture that lets you have complete control over all of the signal routing as well (the standard model features 8 audio loops, the GL model offers 16).

Given your effect lineup, I would personally say "screw it" and go for a TC Electronic G-Force, but my opinion doesn't necessarily count here.

Also if you need a ProRackG, I have one in excellent condition I'll come off of. Call me at 828-489-9757 (my actual name is Kendall) if you're interested.
ESP LTD EC-256 and a Fender Deluxe VM
#9
Quote by colin617
Everything except my Nashville Tele (it belonged to my Uncle who was one hell of a player), ES 335 (maybe...I love this guitar, but it would bring in some nice change), the Silver Jubilee (it is just cool to say I have one), and the things starred in the list. Click to links in my sig to see what else I have and make me an offer.

To the guy above me: I have a nice guitar (2005 American Fender Nashville B-Bender Tele). I want a PRS Custom 24, but that isn't a very pressing issue. All of the effects are going into a true bypass loop and are, for the most part, analogue. I am trying to fight the digital fakeness that ruins most rack rigs (cough petrucci cough)




Keep it, you have a wonderful guitar!
#10
I just don't see how you are SICK of your rig....
Gibson Les Paul Studio
Highway One Telecaster
Dean Evo
Mesa F-50
Laney GH50L
Vox AC30 C2
Ampeg V2
pedals
#11
Quote by colin617
Actually, I don't. Haha. I am torn between the ENGL and a Diezel Einstein. I'm really hoping Zachman pops in here; I have some questions that I know he can answer.

Zachman is banned. And that's a real tough place to be. Gosh. It must hurt so much.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#12
Quote by Kendall
Some people are going to disagree with me on this one, but I couldn't stand the CAE Midi controllers (love everything else they make though). I found the Axess FX-1 to be easier to work with (both programming and playing) if you needs lots of global IA control, but after spending months screwing around with Midi controllers I ended up with the Rocktron All Access as it's phenomenally intuitive to program and can have different IA switch layouts for each preset. Your controller needs to suit you, so try to organize a chance to play with a few of them before you buy.

Next on the agenda is the GCX. While still pretty much an industry standard it's quickly falling out of favor with a lot of people because it lacks the ability to store it's own presets. You need to use a total of 8 CC# messages (either custom messages or IA switches) to have complete control of a GCX if you aren't using a Ground Control Pro. The Rocktron Patchmate and RJM RG-16 can accomplish the same feat using only a single Program Change message (the RG-16 also has 8 function switches in addition to 8 audio loops for controlling amps and other miscellaneous things). RJM also has a product called the Effect Gizmo that has 12 audio loops instead of 8 if you need the extra capacity. Then there's the Switchblade line from SoundSculpture that lets you have complete control over all of the signal routing as well (the standard model features 8 audio loops, the GL model offers 16).

Given your effect lineup, I would personally say "screw it" and go for a TC Electronic G-Force, but my opinion doesn't necessarily count here.

Also if you need a ProRackG, I have one in excellent condition I'll come off of. Call me at 828-489-9757 (my actual name is Kendall) if you're interested.



Thanks! That was really helpful!

The RG 16 is looking like what I need. However, is it picky about which foot-switch I use? Also, the Effects Gizmo looked interesting too. The how-to videos on their site were also a nice touch.

RJM also makes an Amp Gizmo that they say can take a non-Midi amp and make use of its foot-switchable controls. Since none of the amps I am interested in have Midi capabilities (that I am aware of), I feel like this would be useful. However, if I go this route, would I only need the Amp and Effects Gizmos and not the RG 16? (Sorry, I am new to racks)

The Switchblade GL is blowing my mind, too. Being able to have that level of control over my rig with just a single button is the whole reason I am doing this. I should have gone the rack route earlier...

The Axess is what Petrucci is using, right? If so, I like how simple his switching looks (from the demo videos he did). But I really need to investigate this more.

As for the the G-Force: it does do everything I need, but I have never been able to like it. It just sounds....off. I am used to my analogue warmth. Plus, I am a pedal ***** and am constantly messing with things and buying new things.

Do you have any recommendations for a rackmount delay? The 2290 is discontinued and is really hard to find (especially at a reasonable price).

Also, can I see pics of your rig? Just out of curiosity....

This is still in the very early stages, so I am going to have to pass on the Decimator (for now). I am still calling up techs and and trying to figure out exactly what I need and how much it will all cost.

The amps: I liked the Engl more for its ease of use. I could easily get the sounds I was looking for. However, the Einstein sounded better after I finally dialed in everything.

Does anyone have any experience with the VH4? I know it has Midi and is very hi-gain, but I have never played one. Can it get classic rock and lo-fi sounds too? I may or may not need to try one.

Basically, I need this rig to get close to every guitar sound from "Meet the Beatles" to "Black Holes and Revelations". Yes every sound, including pop, country (early and modern), blues (SRV/ Mayer), Classic rock (Zeppelin, Stones, Cream), Hair metal (Van Halen. Motley Crue), Thrash (Metallica, Megadeth), 90s alternative (Smashing Pumpkins),Shred (Yngwie), and "indie" (Strokes, Mute Math).
Last edited by colin617 at Feb 23, 2009,
#13
Quote by theoreticmusic
Zachman is banned. And that's a real tough place to be. Gosh. It must hurt so much.


What did Zach do to get the ban hammer? Dammit, he is always getting banned when I need him (thus, why I did not post this over on Harmony Central).

I really don't like dealing with their amp forum...
#14
Quote by colin617
What did Zach do to get the ban hammer? Dammit, he is always getting banned when I need him (thus, why I did not post this over on Harmony Central).

I really don't like dealing with their amp forum...



He was his normal self. Then in the FOTB (forum of the banned) he asked to have his account deleted, which means he's now permabanned from HC and UG. Too bad...

Other than that, I can't help you, good luck though
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#15
Quote by Kevin Saale
He was his normal self. Then in the FOTB (forum of the banned) he asked to have his account deleted, which means he's now permabanned from HC and UG. Too bad...

Other than that, I can't help you, good luck though


How unfortunate. He knew a lot of stuff about racks. He really is a helpful person when he isn't being himself (an elitist asshole).
#16
Which unfortunately was all of the time.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#17
You need a SF bandmaster

But I'm confused. You said you want to cut down the dancing and guessing. That is a ****ing huge rig.
#18
Quote by mcrfobtai
You need a SF bandmaster

But I'm confused. You said you want to cut down the dancing and guessing. That is a ****ing huge rig.


Exactly. This rig should be able to cover the entire spectrum of sounds. Also, with the effects, I should be able to turn on multiple effects with just one button. The switchers and foot controller are going to be key here. Take Petrucci for example (even though I am not a fan of his DT tone): he can go from his high gain DT tone, to doing Pink Floyd covers, to doing Metallica covers effortlessly. No tweaking or dancing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yUUCRJGdko

I don't mind having a big rig (actually, I kind of like it). However, when I have to pack up 2 combos, 3 heads, 3 cabinets, and a pedalboard, it starts to get ridiculous. Also, having to bend over and tweak settings between songs is a bitch. So is tap dancing to get multiple effects.

I can just put this in my basement and roll it (literally, everything will be on casters) into a trailer and move it wherever. Transportation will not be a problem.

You should really stop throwing that Band Master in my face. One day, you will wake up to find it missing.


More Questions:
I have also been looking at using a Mesa Lonestar for my clean and slight crunch, but I am really apprehensive. I like the Two Rock better than the Lonestar (which I have owned), but the Mesa is significantly cheaper. I don't want to sacrifice tone for cost since this will be my be all, end all rig. I don't know....

okay....so that was only 1 question. I'm going to go play acoustic....I'm getting a headache.
Last edited by colin617 at Feb 23, 2009,
#19
Quote by colin617
Exactly. This rig should be able to cover the entire spectrum of sounds. Also, with the effects, I should be able to turn on multiple effects with just one button. The switchers and foot controller are going to be key here. Take Petrucci for example (even though I am not a fan of his DT tone): he can go from his high gain DT tone, to doing Pink Floyd covers, to doing Metallica covers effortlessly. No tweaking or dancing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yUUCRJGdko

I don't mind having a big rig (actually, I kind of like it). However, when I have to pack up 2 combos, 3 heads, 3 cabinets, and a pedalboard, it starts to get ridiculous. Also, having to bend over and tweak settings between songs is a bitch. So is tap dancing to get multiple effects.

I can just put this in my basement and roll it (literally, everything will be on casters) into a trailer and move it wherever. Transportation will not be a problem.

You should really stop throwing that Band Master in my face. One day, you will wake up to find it missing.


Is this a rack setup?

Or is it just midi controlled
#20
Quote by mcrfobtai
Is this a rack setup?

Or is it just midi controlled


Rack. It's inspired by Brad Paisley, James Hetfield, and John Mayer's new rig.
#22
Quote by mcrfobtai
Ahh. Ok, I thought this was all on the floor and I was confused. I want that two rock though


Yeah....welcome to my world. Now go stare at your SF Bandmaster while I writhe in jealousy for a few more months.
#23
Quote by colin617
Yeah....welcome to my world. Now go stare at your SF Bandmaster while I writhe in jealousy for a few more months.

then I'll be the jealous one
#26
Quote by mcrfobtai
trade my Bandmaster for the two rock?


Throw in about $3000 and you have a deal.
#28
Quote by colin617
The RG 16 is looking like what I need. However, is it picky about which foot-switch I use? Also, the Effects Gizmo looked interesting too. The how-to videos on their site were also a nice touch.

RJM also makes an Amp Gizmo that they say can take a non-Midi amp and make use of its foot-switchable controls. Since none of the amps I am interested in have Midi capabilities (that I am aware of), I feel like this would be useful. However, if I go this route, would I only need the Amp and Effects Gizmos and not the RG 16? (Sorry, I am new to racks)

The RG-16 is basically an Amp Gizmo and two thirds of an Effects Gizmo built into one unit. It's one of the most versatile pieces of guitar equipment readily available today and people who buy them aren't quick to get rid of them (I'm not using a Midi rig right now and I still won't come off of mine).

As far as what you'll need, basically it will come down to exactly how many loops you need to switch stuff in and out of the signal path. If you need 8 or less get the RG-16, if you need 9-12 get one of the Amp Gizmo's (there's a mini version) and an Effects Gizmo, if you need 13-16 get an RG-16 and a Rocktron Patchmate, if you need 17-20 get an RG-16 and an Effects Gizmo...etc...etc...you get the idea. The BOB-8 that they offer might be a wise investment as it'll allow you electrically isolate the two amps and get away with using more common cables (instead of having to get RJM to custom make some for you).

Quote by colin617
The Switchblade GL is blowing my mind, too. Being able to have that level of control over my rig with just a single button is the whole reason I am doing this. I should have gone the rack route earlier...

This, of course, is an extremely powerful alternative to any other switching system. The biggest issue that you'll have is that while the routing flexibility is fantastic, most of the time it's completely unnecessary. The ability to take an overdrive from in front of the amp and stick it in the loop is much more "cool as a feature" than it is "useful as a feature".

Quote by colin617
The Axess is what Petrucci is using, right? If so, I like how simple his switching looks (from the demo videos he did). But I really need to investigate this more.

Honestly I have no idea what Petrucci is using.

Quote by colin617
As for the the G-Force: it does do everything I need, but I have never been able to like it. It just sounds....off. I am used to my analogue warmth. Plus, I am a pedal ***** and am constantly messing with things and buying new things.

Do you have any recommendations for a rackmount delay? The 2290 is discontinued and is really hard to find (especially at a reasonable price).

One of the reasons for my recommendation for the G-Force: the delays are pretty fantastic. The problem with pedals is that you have to manually dial in a change every time you want a change in tone from that pedal. You can still use pedals alongside a rackmount processor (just put it in one of the loops on your switching system). Rackmount processors are just so much more versatile. Personally I never even got as far as the G-Force, the G-Major was plenty good for me.

Quote by colin617
Also, can I see pics of your rig? Just out of curiosity....

I'm sorry but no. My large Midi rig has already been completely disassembled and several pieces (including the amp) have already been sold. I'm not one of the sentimental types that takes pictures to remember things by and if someone on the internet decides he/she doesn't want to believe that I have something simply because I won't show a picture then so be it, I really couldn't care less. I do have individual pics of most of the remaining pieces for use in spam threads and ebay auctions though. I might get some pics of the new rig just to fill up my profile a little bit, but then again I might not.

Ahh, what the heck, here's a little something:



Quote by colin617
This is still in the very early stages, so I am going to have to pass on the Decimator (for now). I am still calling up techs and and trying to figure out exactly what I need and how much it will all cost.

You are definitely going to have quite a bill to pay after assembling a rig like that. Expect to drop a little over $400 for a new ProRackG, with used ones usually holding pretty good at around $300.

Quote by colin617
The amps: I liked the Engl more for its ease of use. I could easily get the sounds I was looking for. However, the Einstein sounded better after I finally dialed in everything.

Does anyone have any experience with the VH4? I know it has Midi and is very hi-gain, but I have never played one. Can it get classic rock and lo-fi sounds too? I may or may not need to try one.

Personally I liked the tone of the Einstein a good deal better than the VH4. I know the VH4 has more features out of the box, but you can mod the voicing switch on the Einstein's cleaner channel to be footswitch activated which basically turns the Einstein into a 4 channel amp (but it still won't have the same array of features the VH4 has). The second channel on the VH4 will get you into classic rock territory without issue. If you need something lo-fi sounding then all you really need to do is have one cheap noisy pedal (to serve no other purpose than to crud up the tone) and a high pass filter.

Quote by colin617
Basically, I need this rig to get close to every guitar sound from "Meet the Beatles" to "Black Holes and Revelations". Yes every sound, including pop, country (early and modern), blues (SRV/ Mayer), Classic rock (Zeppelin, Stones, Cream), Hair metal (Van Halen. Motley Crue), Thrash (Metallica, Megadeth), 90s alternative (Smashing Pumpkins),Shred (Yngwie), and "indie" (Strokes, Mute Math).

Once again, if it were me working with this kind of a budget and trying to be as versatile as possible, I would try and track down one of the seemingly impossible to find Soldano/Caswell X99 Midi preamps and then use a VHT 2:90:2 for a power amp.

Of course there's the really simple solution to 99% all of this that will sound 99% as good:

Guitar ---> Fractal AxeFX ---> Traynor K4 Keyboard Amp

Then find a controller you like and be done with it. I'm not trying to be a reductionist or anything, but large rackmounted Midi rigs are an absolute pain to layout, design, assemble, transport, program, and store. In addition, with the signal chain that complicated problems will arise and will give you headaches trying to troubleshoot. You'll have a good sized fortune invested in guitar equipment, but also another small fortune invested in peripherals such as cables, zip ties, velcro strips, and tape. There's beauty in simplicity, which is why I came off of a rig the size of some small countries and am now content with a single channel amp and a simple effects processor (plus the whole rig will now fit in the back seat of a Honda Civic). Simplicity and versatility are not mutually exclusive and it'll pay to remember that when you make final decisions regarding your rig.
ESP LTD EC-256 and a Fender Deluxe VM
#29
Quote by Kendall

Guitar ---> Fractal AxeFX ---> Traynor K4 Keyboard Amp
.


Hahaha. I was waiting for AxeFX to come into the equation.

To be honest, money really isn't an issue. I play close to 200 gigs per year, have job, no wife or kids to worry about, and can sell off most of my current rig to cover a good portion of the cost. I am expecting the whole project to cost between 15 and 17 grand. It will be a very merry Christmas for me this year.

I think I will go for an Amp Gizmo and an Effects Gizmo. I am a pretty heavy effects user and like mixing and matching to get different sounds. But again, I will see what I can find in my research.

No worries about the picks. I just like seeing other people's racks. (insert dirty joke here)

I was looking at the CAE 3+ and VHT 2:90:2. I may have to revisit that.
#30
I checked out your gear and I was wondering if you wanted to sell your carbon copy?
My Gear:

Fender Aerodyne Stratocaster
NOS Tweed Fender Blues Jr
Boss BD-2
Boss CE-5
Boss CS-3
Dunlop Slash Crybaby
Korg DT-10
Boss BR-600
MXR Script Phase 90
MXR DD-7 Analog Delay

GASing for:
Vox V847
#31
Quote by MOOSE_CCR99
I checked out your gear and I was wondering if you wanted to sell your carbon copy?


Eventually. I'll keep you in mind.

My pedal board will likely be the last thing that gets taken apart; I still will need to use it heavily for gigs and studio stuff.
#32
Ooh. I'd be interested in the CC
This thread actually makes me interested in racks. Too bad I don't use a lot of effects
#33
Quote by colin617
Hahaha. I was waiting for AxeFX to come into the equation.

To be honest, money really isn't an issue. I play close to 200 gigs per year, have job, no wife or kids to worry about, and can sell off most of my current rig to cover a good portion of the cost. I am expecting the whole project to cost between 15 and 17 grand. It will be a very merry Christmas for me this year.

I think I will go for an Amp Gizmo and an Effects Gizmo. I am a pretty heavy effects user and like mixing and matching to get different sounds. But again, I will see what I can find in my research.

No worries about the picks. I just like seeing other people's racks. (insert dirty joke here)

I was looking at the CAE 3+ and VHT 2:90:2. I may have to revisit that.

Certainly a large chunk of change. I had somewhere around 9 grand invested in the rig I just disassembled. Fortunately most of it was purchased used so I expect to recoup somewhere close to 7 of it. I want a smaller cab and a new guitar for the new rig. I probably won't break $2500 by the time everything is said and done.

If you need any help getting everything together, let me know and I'll be glad to help to whatever extent I can.
ESP LTD EC-256 and a Fender Deluxe VM
#34
Quote by Kendall
Certainly a large chunk of change. I had somewhere around 9 grand invested in the rig I just disassembled. Fortunately most of it was purchased used so I expect to recoup somewhere close to 7 of it. I want a smaller cab and a new guitar for the new rig. I probably won't break $2500 by the time everything is said and done.

If you need any help getting everything together, let me know and I'll be glad to help to whatever extent I can.


Thank you! Your help is greatly appreciated!
#36
Quote by colin617
I am incredibly sick of my rig. Don't get my wrong, it sounds AMAZING. However, the pedal dancing and guess work of what to bring to a gig is quite annoying. So.....I am selling (almost) everything and building this monster:

Two Rock Custom Reverb Signature head
Engl Blackmore head

My trusty Matchless 412*
Two Rock 212

Furman Pro Factor Series Power Conditioner
Peterson Stroborack Virtual Rack tuner*
ISP Technologies Decimator Pro Rack G
Dunlop Custom Shop DCR-2SR Rackmount Wah*
TC Electronics 2290 Dynamic Digital Delay (this is going to be a bitch to find)
Voodoo Labs GCX Switcher

Pedal drawer(s):
Hermida Zendrive*
Xotic RC Booster
Analogman NKT 275 Sunface*
Skreddy Lunar Module
RetroSonic Phaser*
Skreddy Echo
Evantide Timefactor
EHX POG*
Digitech Whammy

Voodoo Labs PP2 (x2)
Mogami Cables

On the floor:
CAE Foot controller
Control for the wah
Control for the whammy
EB Volume Pedal*

This is leaving out some of the technical stuff, but you get the idea. What do you guys think? Any more ideas?

(I already have the items starred)

BTW, I am getting more studio work and getting away from the bubble-gum pop stuff. I need an incredibly versatile rig.

EDIT: I am still in the saving stages, so this won't get into full swing until at least summer. Also, selling my stuff will be quite hard.


I love you/I hate you/Back in a second, I have to... go to the bathroom.

Holy smokes, that's going to be a phenomenal rig.
I'm Joel. I play guitar. I am a student. I look at the cost of tuition, not in a dollar value, but in the guitars I'm sacrificing now, to be able to buy later.