#1
I am studying some guitar players soloing in a song over the chords A7 then D7 repeated. It seems that every note played except for 1 was in they key of C. was C the scale they were using even though the chords were A7 and D7? does this mean you can play any notes in C and they will work, or do you have to pay attention to what chords your playing over? because there was an E being played over the D7 for half a measure and sounded good even though D7's don't have an E. Why is this?

I have many questions
#2
You can't play in C major over those chords, those notes will be A minor in that context.
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#3
Quote by steven seagull
You can't play in C major over those chords, those notes will be A minor in that context.


I wouldn't even call it A minor. The progression would seem to resolve to D more than A, and the notes CDEFGAB in that context would be akin to the use of the minor pentatonic over a dominant chord. Most of the notes are either found in the D7 chord, are are suggestive of an altered dominant (the F suggesting a #9).
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#5
Quote by mick13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k4PBNWUQEo

it starts at :54 all the notes are in C major except for a D# played quickly at 1:08. what scale are they basing it off then?


As has been pointed out, there is nothing to suggest C major.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#7
Dare I say...A minor?

remember Cmaj and A minor share the same notes even if they are not the same. So depending on the phrasing of the solo and underlying chords you could be in either Cmaj or Amin.

A7 and D7 are both part of the Amin scale...


...right?
#8
It could be but I don't know. it's all natural notes and then a D# and I'm trying to find the scale. couldn't you just find the key of the song and use notes from the key? or no?

EDIT: I don't understand how all the natural notes sound so great over A7 and D7
#9
That solo is completely in Aminor penatonic. I just jammed with it once and could nearly figure out the whole thing.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#10
Quote by AlanHB
That solo is completely in Aminor penatonic. I just jammed with it once and could nearly figure out the whole thing.


nice...i like being right

except that I was wrong about the chords ...got confused about my 7 chords.
#11
Oh and that D# is a half tone bend on the G string on the 7th fret. The note is previously a D, bent up to a D#. So it is either a bend incorporating the blues scale (minor penatonic + 1), an intentional "arty" bend that arguably doesn't need any scale to justify it, or a mistake :P

You can also solo over the progression in A minor however, this is why is sounds ok to use the C major scale. They are relative and therefore use the same notes.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#12
The notes in the two chords are...
D7- D F# A C
A7- A C# E G

Those notes belong in the D major scale but since it has a C it would technically be called the D Be-Bop scale but i'd recommend playing the C only over the D7 and the C# over the A7.
#13
Quote by AlanHB
Oh and that D# is a half tone bend on the G string on the 7th fret. The note is previously a D, bent up to a D#. So it is either a bend incorporating the blues scale (minor penatonic + 1), an intentional "arty" bend that arguably doesn't need any scale to justify it, or a mistake :P

You can also solo over the progression in A minor however, this is why is sounds ok to use the C major scale. They are relative and therefore use the same notes.

Alright, now I know they're soloing over A minor pent. but how does this sound okay and work? I mean Am scale over an A7? I thought that would sound horrible.
#14
Quote by mick13
Alright, now I know they're soloing over A minor pent. but how does this sound okay and work? I mean Am scale over an A7? I thought that would sound horrible.

Because Am pentatonic contains A C D E G. All those notes fit over those chords but the problem with that is you only have 5 notes to work with and the progression generally resolves to the D7 making to D your root. (I may be wrong about the resolving part)
#15
Quote by Ssargentslayer
Because Am pentatonic contains A C D E G. All those notes fit over those chords but the problem with that is you only have 5 notes to work with and the progression generally resolves to the D7 making to D your root. (I may be wrong about the resolving part)

so A C D E G are the only notes used?
#16
Quote by mick13
so A C D E G are the only notes used?

I'm not sure about the exact notes they are using but you could use those notes and C# B and a F# but the C# only over top of the A7
#17
I just don't understand it. Am pent has a C and the C is being used at parts over A7 and D7 but A7 contains

A7- A C# E G

how does the C not sound horrible over a chord that has a C#?
#18
Quote by mick13
I just don't understand it. Am pent has a C and the C is being used at parts over A7 and D7 but A7 contains

A7- A C# E G

how does the C not sound horrible over a chord that has a C#?


It sounds dissonant, obviously. Whether or not it sounds horrible is entirely subjective. In this case, the C is equivalent to a #9, which is a very common alteration to a dominant chord.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#19
Don't worry that not all the notes are in the scale. The clash created by the scale gives the solo more "edge".

Different scales have developed differently - check out an Egyptian or Hungarian scale compared to the standard western scales and you'll be surprised at the differences.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#20
so then obviously there could of been other scales played over that progression? and then you just find scale containing noes the chords have?
#21
Oh for sure, each would give it's own different feel. However if you want an accessible melody to be created, it's recommened that you stick to the scales that make sense to western theory/ears.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#22
alright. I'm starting to understand more. I just don't understand one thing. I always thought to make a solo you have to find the key and then use that scale. that's wrong I know now. but what do you do then, do you look at the chords and find notes they all use and then find a scale containing those notes?

like for example the progression is A7 and D7

what is the first thing you do? do you examine the notes in the chords and then find a scale to match?

I just need someone to explain how you can find scales to play over a progression, such as this one.
#23
Quote by mick13
alright. I'm starting to understand more. I just don't understand one thing. I always thought to make a solo you have to find the key and then use that scale. that's wrong I know now. but what do you do then, do you look at the chords and find notes they all use and then find a scale containing those notes?

like for example the progression is A7 and D7

what is the first thing you do? do you examine the notes in the chords and then find a scale to match?

I just need someone to explain how you can find scales to play over a progression, such as this one.


If the song is in a key, you use the scale corresponding to that key. You can throw in whatever notes you want, but there's no reason to complicate it by dragging in modes or calling it anything other than an alteration to the major/minor scale.

The progression A7 - D7 is not diatonic to any key, but it resolves to D. The blues approach would be to just play the D minor pentatonic over the whole thing. A more complex approach, and one that requires far more experience and education, is to pick each note individually over each chord. Even then, there's no reason to drag modes or exotic scales into it.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#24
Alright I'm starting to get it


well I know that the two chords used are:
D7- D F# A C
A7- A C# E G

and that the Am pentatonic scale contains:
A C D E G

Does that scale work over the progression because the notes in the scale are found in the chords? And does that mean you could also use F# and C# and it would still sound okay (obviously not in A minor pent. anymore though)?
#25
Quote by mick13
Alright I'm starting to get it


well I know that the two chords used are:
D7- D F# A C
A7- A C# E G

and that the Am pentatonic scale contains:
A C D E G

Does that scale work over the progression because the notes in the scale are found in the chords? And does that mean you could also use F# and C# and it would still sound okay (obviously not in A minor pent. anymore though)?


You can use the Am pentatonic "shape" over that progression, but you are not playing A minor. The progression resolves (weakly) to D, and the notes that you play will relate to that tonic. The notes ACDEG work over that progression because they are found in those chords, but they are not the A minor pentatonic.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#26
okay thanks for all the help

I'm going to read my cousins "Complete Idiot's Guide To Music Theory" now

should that explain all this to me even though it's not specifically for guitar? I mean like the scales used and the key and all.
#27
Quote by mick13
okay thanks for all the help

I'm going to read my cousins "Complete Idiot's Guide To Music Theory" now

should that explain all this to me even though it's not specifically for guitar? I mean like the scales used and the key and all.


I haven't read it myself, but I've heard a number of great reviews. It doesn't matter whether or not it's made specifically for the guitar. The concepts it describes will apply to any instrument.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Feb 24, 2009,
#28
Quote by Archeo Avis
I haven't read it myself, but I've heard a number of great reviews. It doesn't matter whether or not it's made specifically for the guitar. The concepts describes will apply to any instrument.

thanks for all the help man!
#30
Quote by Ssargentslayer
No problem.

I don't know if you were being sarcastic or not because I quoted the other guy, but thanks a bunch to you, Archeo Avis, AlanHB, and rnelson

I understand it finally thanks to you guys