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#1
Ok, I've searched and seen the hundreds of threads on this, but I didn't find any that answered what I'm wondering here.

How does someone completely new to Ear Training actually begin this?

I know about musictheory.net and it's trainers, but personally I dont' see how that trainer helps someone completely new to this like myself. I'm not opposed to this software, in fact I plan on using it once I get a little more along in this, if possible.

Any help here will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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Last edited by Outside Octaves at Feb 23, 2009,
#4
The first place I always look is Beginners and Basics (unless it's a question about Scales, then I'd obviously search scales...)

Perfectly understandable missing it, it was more towards the bottom.




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#5
i was terrible but what i did at first was i naturally could hear the perfect 4th..
well it took me quite a few tries to notice it as being the P4 but it was the only distinct interval i could pick out.
So then i just would listen to see if the note was higher or lower then that and just guess...
i started getting more and more correct and now i could point them all out.
you just have to get use listening in a new way.
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#7
uh? I already listen to that stuff .... got the box set to zep actually. So I don't see what you are getting at with this, other than possibly being an &$$?
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#8
Quote by ARYANMETALFIST
You should train your ear by listening to the classics: Led
Zeppelin, Jimmy Hendrix, etc.


Fixed. Whenever you write something (even something factual) it is always "in your opinion", so saying "in my opinion" is completely useless 99% of the time.

You're = You are (eg; You're stupid.)
Your = possessive (eg; Your ear.)

You should always capitlize names (eg; Led Zeppelin, not led zeppelin)

In a list you seperate items in the list with a comma.

"u" should always be "you", and if you really think taking 0.2 seconds out of your life to hit "yo" before "u" is to big of a hassle, then I really feel sorry for you.

Also that is pretty bad training unless you know the key the song is in, every note, etc. If you're trying to learn what a C sounds like (use any octave as an example, just make sure it's the same octave) then you wouldn't listen to a song, you would listen to what the C note sounds like.




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#10
Quote by ARYANMETALFIST
go sucka dictionarys dick
I once licked one of the pages in the Dib-Did section of a dictionary. Does that count?

Mods, delete this if you want (she says as if her opinion matters), but I had to post my quip.
#11
Quote by ARYANMETALFIST
Go suck on a dictionaries dick.

Fixed?

Go pick up a dictionary. You may also want to find a book on anatomy. I can assure you, a dictionary does not have a dick. In fact, I'm sure most dictionaries do not include the word "dick" in them. They use the other, more "correct" name, and that starts with a P.

post scriptum? (aka; ps)

Stop trolling.




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Last edited by Invokke_Havokk at Feb 23, 2009,
#12
Quote by Invokke_Havokk
Fixed?

Go pick up a dictionary. You may also want to find a book on anatomy. I can assure you, a dictionary does not have a dick. In fact, I'm sure most dictionaries do not include the word "dick" in them. They use the other, more "correct" name, and that starts with a P.

post scriptum? (aka; ps)

Stop trolling.


Would there be an apostrophe, since it is possesive not plural.

Anyways you need to learn to construct intervals. Seconds, Thirds, Fourths, Fifths, and so on. It is hard to "train" your ear if you dont know what to call anything that you are listening to. I think singing is the best method over for ear training, others might disagree. Try out a program called solfege, it is actually really handy for ear training.
#13
Quote by blueriver
Would there be an apostrophe, since it is possesive not plural.

Anyways you need to learn to construct intervals. Seconds, Thirds, Fourths, Fifths, and so on. It is hard to "train" your ear if you dont know what to call anything that you are listening to. I think singing is the best method over for ear training, others might disagree. Try out a program called solfege, it is actually really handy for ear training.


It would be dictionary's, now that I think about it. (English is my worst subject, and I'm in English 2, but seeing as I'm somewhat a grammar/spelling nazi... )

Nice catch, I should use more nouns then just names and such as possessives...

EDIT:

To stay somewhat on subject, I know how to construct intevals, but they haven't greatly helped me. :/




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#14
Grammar nazzi! Well , search google for ear trainers , software that helps you with that.
#15
I know how to construct my intervals and triads; it's that I don't understand where to begin with ear training.

What do you start off with? And again, I don't know if programs are the place to start, as I can't tell a C from an A if I'm not playing it.
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#16
Quote by Outside Octaves
I know how to construct my intervals and triads; it's that I don't understand where to begin with ear training.

What do you start off with? And again, I don't know if programs are the place to start, as I can't tell a C from an A if I'm not playing it.


Play a C, let it ring. Play another C, let it ring. Get accustomed to the sound.

Play an F, let it ring. Play another F, let it ring. Get accustomed to the sound.

Play a B

(I would personally suggest learning notes that sound a lot more different. Learning C then B/D would be harder then learning C then E/F/G/A. Then just alternate. C, F, B, E, D, G, A; wallah... entire alphabet)

After learning the root notes, go for sharps. Learn what a C#/Db sounds like compared to both a C and a D (because you should know those 2 notes now!)

That's what I'm doing, and I can hear a C and F when I hear them, working on E and B now

It's boring, but it really pounds it into your head listening to "C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C." for an hour straight, then completely changing it to "F. F. F. F. F. F." so its a larger difference.




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#17
Sorry for the double post, internet is somewhat horrid (it took 10 minutes to post that post, and if I make a post to long it won't post, my internet crashes -_-... so I can't edit my above post)

Remember octaves, when practicing hearing a note, try different octaves.

for C
8 fret on E strings (and 21st fret if you have one?)
3rd fret on A string (and 16th fret?)
1st fret on B string (and 14th fret?)
5th fret on G string (and 18th fret?
10th fret on D string




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#18
Try singing along with your guitar playing. It'll give you a feel for pitch and intervals between notes. It'll also improve your singing.
And I mean that in the best possible way.
#19
Quote by SilenceIsGolden
Try singing along with your guitar playing. It'll give you a feel for pitch and intervals between notes. It'll also improve your singing.


That's a good idea, if he wants to sing. ( I can't remember if he's made a thread about it, I think I'm thinking of awesomedrummer... )

I'll start giving that a shot.

EDIT:

Your sig goes great with what you said, rofl.




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#20
so there's no getting around the hours of CCCCCCCCCCCCC, eh? lol. (I knew that already btw, j/k)
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#21
Quote by Outside Octaves
so there's no getting around the hours of CCCCCCCCCCCCC, eh? lol. (I knew that already btw, j/k)


If you're a robot you could hit C once and keep the data.

Otherwise, it's just exactly what it sounds like

learning by ear.

Just like learning guitar by repeatingly practicing, or learning how to talk by repeatingly saying the alphabet and how the letters sound and how they sound together, you learn the sound of music by hearing it over and over and over.

(Many birdwatchers will tell you this as well, when they hear a bird they can sometimes tell you what bird it is simply by its chirp. I found this amazing whenever I went on a hike with my grandma. I asked her how she did it once, "Years of listening and watching the birds". But hopefully telling single notes won't take years...




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#22
ok, so u keep going as we all know, but ... how do u break the monotony of it without switching to learning something else? I don't see anything within this that can allow that ATM... heh.
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#23
Quote by Outside Octaves
ok, so u keep going as we all know, but ... how do u break the monotony of it without switching to learning something else? I don't see anything within this that can allow that ATM... heh.


Find a song that has the note, and whenever you hear the note make a mental note of "its here", and mark it down. Then double check with a tab or something to see if you heard it correctly.

That or learn C+F at once, rather then seperated. (C. F. C. F. C. F. C. F.)

It's boring repitition, but you only should be sitting there 5-10 minutes a day, after 3-4 days you should be able to hear the note.

(It takes something to be said 3-4 times for the human brain to fully "get" all of it, that is why teachers tell you something once, repeat it later, review it the next day, then you test on it. They tell you twice, review, test, to prepare you for the later test. If you payed attention all 3-4 times, the finals should be much easier because you'll actually remember. This is the same concept you can take into ANYTHING.)




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#24
yes, but that approach didn't work with me most of the time, lol. That was just aggrevating.

It usually took me just sitting down at home and working on it there to finally get it. All that work in class did help sometimes though, but not as offten as it just frustrated me. I guess it was the speed they went at or something... dunno really, hell I could have a learning disability or something, but I don't think so... heh.
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#25
Sorry for the double post here, but:

What's a really good freeware ear trainer? I've heard of something called solfege or something like that? I forget.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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#26
There are a lot of different exercises you can do.

Practice intervals specifically Major 3rds, Perfect 5ths etc melodically concentrating on one at a time. Practice over and over till you can play any starting note and then sing any interval you want above or below the starting note correctly and spell and name the interval too.

Practice playing different random intervals harmonically and picking out the individual tones by singing them up and down. If you have trouble hearing the individual notes play them individually then play them together again and listen for that note.

When you get really good at picking out notes in random harmonic intervals try doing the same thing with three random notes. Play any three notes together and try to pick them all out and sing each one out and sing them all. Always sing it and always check and correct yourself if necessary.

When you are comfortable with that try four notes, then five, then six. Don't worry too much if you have to sing a note in a different octave to suit your vocal range so long as you get the pitch right - check yourself and name each note each time.

As some other guy said - singing is really good for ear training. You don't have to be a grade A vocalist just hit the notes.

Learn the notes of the things around you - Your doorbell, microwave, alarm clock etc.

And of course - Work songs out by ear. Start with an easy chord based song with a simple bass line, melody or lead break and work your way up to harder stuff.

It also helps just listening attentively all the time to everything. Practice listening with focused attention to ad jingles, ambient noises, birds singing, people talking, accents, and anything else you hear.

Best of Luck.
Si
#27
do the perfect pitch program! and you too can have the perfect pitch

now, on topic. just keep listening to a scale, lets say C just to make it simple. just play it, and slowly listen to it
once you can name em all without peeking change scale. do this and soon youll learn how each little note sounds.
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#28
firstly, practice major scales in every key. not box positions; scales, play a one octave major scale without relying on shape in every key, several times, every day. when you practice scales (should be 15-30 min for major) sing along with them. then every, day sit at a piano, and go over scales, listening to them and picking parts out. try to sing from one note to another (play from c then sing d etc), then whole parts of scales (once you've memorized a 2nd, 3rd and fourth sing the first tetra chord, then the second later). once you have a major scale memorized start using that trainer (should take 1-4 weeks to memorize it if your committed/have a decent ear). When you sing scales first hear them in your head, then sing them and when you do try to hear each pitch before you sing it.
#29
Quote by Outside Octaves
ok, so u keep going as we all know, but ... how do u break the monotony of it without switching to learning something else? I don't see anything within this that can allow that ATM... heh.

Look, you don't have to do anything specific, just make more effort when you're learning things. At the moment you probably read a tab, learn where to put your fingers and if it sounds the same that's it...you need to spend more time building the mental association between the movements you make and the sounds that come out.

"It sounds right" isn't really enough though - ask yourself why it sounds right. Make a point of listening to notes, intervals and chords. You want to get to the point eventually where you know how to play something by how it sounds, and you also know what something will sound like by knowing how it's played. You can only do that by making yourself work harder, you need to bulid up that mental picture of how things sound.

Looking for familiar examples is a great way to make life easier for yourself,

major third = 4 semitones = abstract sound

...is obviously hard to remember, however

major third = 4 semitones = first two notes of the bassline in Sweet Child O'Mine

...is a lot easier, because you already know the song and have probably hummed along to that bassline countless times. So do that, look for familar examples of the things you're trying to learn, the more you do this the beter your brain will get at connecting the physical aspects of playing guitar with the sounds. At the moment you've never really tried so of course it'll be hard, the more you do it the better you'll get at it.
Actually called Mark!

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Last edited by steven seagull at Feb 25, 2009,
#30
sigh...


Life it seems, was never meant to be easy.

All that is good in life, takes work to achieve.

Why then is it that we strive, nay, yurn for that which is improbable?

Every time I find myself at a point in life where I can finally stop and say I've achieved something, I also find that that achievement has only unlocked other pathways?

Sigh...

Such is life I guess...?

(And here I thought I could finally feel at peace with myself. Better luck next time I guess?)

* * *


I guess it will be that I start out just picking a note and listening to it... and mabey try to sing that pitch as well?
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#31
What would be the fun if every time we achieved something that was it, there was no further place to take our successes?
Si
#33
Quote by Outside Octaves
sigh...


Life it seems, was never meant to be easy.

All that is good in life, takes work to achieve.

Why then is it that we strive, nay, yurn for that which is improbable?

Every time I find myself at a point in life where I can finally stop and say I've achieved something, I also find that that achievement has only unlocked other pathways?

Sigh...

Such is life I guess...?

(And here I thought I could finally feel at peace with myself. Better luck next time I guess?)

* * *


I guess it will be that I start out just picking a note and listening to it... and mabey try to sing that pitch as well?

Bad news - you NEVER stop learning with the guitar and you'll never think you're good enough, that's just the way it is.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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...it's a seagull

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i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


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#35
Well, doh reh..... is always good.

What I like to do is give myself a reference point on the guitar (well that's cuz I play guitar, it could be any instrument), and then set myself an interval to hit with my voice. Then I'll hit that interval on my guitar to see if I got it right.

I found it helps with my relative pitch.
#36
I suppose I watched a little too much adult swim (via cartoon network) last night/early this morning. I think my last post was a bit poetic, and confusing to some, lol. Basicly, to sum it up, I got the blues lol. Now, if only I could translate last night into music, lmao.


But on to the serious stuff. I'm definately getting on this stuff starting tomarrow, so I'll definatly be using all of what you people have offered so far, and thank you for that.
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#37
I think you're concentrating to much on remembering individual pitches. Unless you have perfect pitch, this will be very hard to do and probably not the most efficient way to train your ear.

Learning intervals is probably the best way to train your ear. By learning what any interval sounds like, you can be given the starting note of a song and work out the rest of the song by working what interval each note is in relation to the first note or the note before it.

And even if you do not have the starting note (say you're listening to music in the car) you can guess the starting note then transpose as apporpriate when you get to your guitar/piano/whatever and find out the first note.

This is only possible if you have a very good knowledge of all eleven intervals, and learning them isn't easy, but this sort of thing is possible once you know them well.

As for how you should learn them, I was taught movable solfa (in the first link in the thread) while learning violin and I've found it very useful but you could also use the inteval trainer at musictheory.net.

And to Invokke_Havokk (I have to say this because you were being such a grammar nazi):
Using the term "in my opinion" is very necessary because it shows that you know that it is just an opinion and that it is up for debate.

For example "Bass is better than guitar" is a very ignorant statement because it implies that this is a fact, but "In my opinion, bass is better than guitar" is a valid statemnt because you have acknowledged that it is just an opinion.
#38
Quote by 12345abcd3
I think you're concentrating to much on remembering individual pitches. Unless you have perfect pitch, this will be very hard to do and probably not the most efficient way to train your ear.

Learning intervals is probably the best way to train your ear. By learning what any interval sounds like, you can be given the starting note of a song and work out the rest of the song by working what interval each note is in relation to the first note or the note before it.

And even if you do not have the starting note (say you're listening to music in the car) you can guess the starting note then transpose as apporpriate when you get to your guitar/piano/whatever and find out the first note.

This is only possible if you have a very good knowledge of all eleven intervals, and learning them isn't easy, but this sort of thing is possible once you know them well.

As for how you should learn them, I was taught movable solfa (in the first link in the thread) while learning violin and I've found it very useful but you could also use the inteval trainer at musictheory.net.

And to Invokke_Havokk (I have to say this because you were being such a grammar nazi):
Using the term "in my opinion" is very necessary because it shows that you know that it is just an opinion and that it is up for debate.

For example "Bass is better than guitar" is a very ignorant statement because it implies that this is a fact, but "In my opinion, bass is better than guitar" is a valid statemnt because you have acknowledged that it is just an opinion.


Everything you state is in your opinion. It is a meaningless phrase to add to a sentence to make it seem more complete.

"In my opinion, ducks are better than geese at flying."
"Ducks are better then geese at flying."
"It is a fact that ducks are better than geese at flying."

The first two could be taken as an opinion. The last (if it were true), would be a fact.

"Bass is better then guitar" is obviously an opinion, as one instrument cannot be "better" then another, that is based off of a single persons opinion.




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#39
Quote by Invokke_Havokk
Everything you state is in your opinion. It is a meaningless phrase to add to a sentence to make it seem more complete.

"In my opinion, ducks are better than geese at flying."
"Ducks are better then geese at flying."
"It is a fact that ducks are better than geese at flying."

The first two could be taken as an opinion. The last (if it were true), would be a fact.

"Bass is better then guitar" is obviously an opinion, as one instrument cannot be "better" then another, that is based off of a single persons opinion.

But without an "in my opinion" it is as if you are stating it as a fact.

If I say "bass is better than guitar" then reply to everyone who says it is not with something like "no, you're wrong" then I'm treating it as a fact.

If I say "Guitar is an instrument" that is clearly not an opinion, it is a fact.

The idea that "Everything you state is in your opinion" is ridiculous because in that case it would be impossible for facts to exist, because someone would have to state them.

And regardless of whether it is a opinion or not, saying "in my opinion" shows that you are treating it as an opinion.
Last edited by 12345abcd3 at Mar 1, 2009,
#40
Quote by 12345abcd3
But without an "in my opinion" it is as if you are stating it as a fact.

If I say "bass is better than guitar" then reply to everyone who says it is not with something like "no, you're wrong" then I'm treating it as a fact.

If I say "Guitar is an instrument" that is clearly not an opinion, it is a fact.

The idea that "Everything you state is in your opinion" is ridiculous because in that case it would be impossible for facts to exist, because someone would have to state them.


Facts are not opinions.

If the statement is not an opinion, it is a fact.

If you responded with "no, you're wrong" that would just mean your arrogant treating your opinion as fact, and not listening to anyone.

If you say "Guitar is an instrument.", you even stated it was clearly not an opinion, therefore fact.

Stating "in my opinion" to show it is your opinion is pointless. It's how people are understanding it is what is causing the problems.




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Last edited by Invokke_Havokk at Mar 1, 2009,
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