#1
can you tonicize any other notes other than the II using a secondary dominant?
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#3
Quote by 20Tigers
Yes. You can tonicize any note using a secondary dominant.


good thats what i thought but i would it still be called a secondary dominant and would you still spell it as V/II
you are what you is
#4
Yeah it would still be called secondary dominant.

If it's followed by a movement down a fifth it's called a "functioning" secondary dominant. If it is not followed by a movement down a fifth it's called a non functioning secondary dominant. Usually non functioning secondary dominants are identified by their use of dominant sevenths.

You could try a chain of "secondary dominants" or cycle of fifths - something like
VI II V I is quite popular. The VI would be V/II the II is V/V and the V isn't a secondary dominant just a dominant.

Each chord tonicizes the next which gives a feeling like you are constantly honing in on the tonic. Whichever point you stop the chain will feel like the tonic.

The example above uses roots that stay in key but you could stretch it further back and make a full circle of all the 12 possible notes:

A# - D# - G# - C# - F# - B - E - A - D - G - C - F - Bb(A#)

You could make any one of these the tonic simply by stopping the journey round the cycle on that chord. Or you could just keep going forever and make it feel like you're no a merry-go-round.

This is also a great way to modulate between keys - especially if they are distant keys and the options for pivot chords are limited. If you're in E for example just jump on the cycle of fifths and E A D G C you're in C.

For a stronger tonicization you might try dominant sevenths.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Feb 25, 2009,
#5
Quote by 20Tigers
Yeah it would still be called secondary dominant.

If it's followed by a movement down a fifth it's called a "functioning" secondary dominant. If it is not followed by a movement down a fifth it's called a non functioning secondary dominant. Usually non functioning secondary dominants are identified by their use of dominant sevenths.

You could try a chain of "secondary dominants" or cycle of fifths - something like
VI II V I is quite popular. The VI would be V/II the II is V/V and the V isn't a secondary dominant just a dominant.

Each chord tonicizes the next which gives a feeling like you are constantly honing in on the tonic. Whichever point you stop the chain will feel like the tonic.

The example above uses roots that stay in key but you could stretch it further back and make a full circle of all the 12 possible notes:

A# - D# - G# - C# - F# - B - E - A - D - G - C - F - Bb(A#)

You could make any one of these the tonic simply by stopping the journey round the cycle on that chord. Or you could just keep going forever and make it feel like you're no a merry-go-round.

This is also a great way to modulate between keys - especially if they are distant keys and the options for pivot chords are limited. If you're in E for example just jump on the cycle of fifths and E A D G C you're in C.

For a stronger tonicization you might try dominant sevenths.


thanks for your help mate
you are what you is