#1
I'm taking music theory in my highschool, and I spend hours playing guitar but I don't know where to look or what to look for about this kind of topic.

I read the sticky about modes, I started learning about them "intervals and such" and how they sound. I'm currently spending most of my time on Lydian. I know Dorian is Major and Aolian is Minor. I know they're all equally important I'm just making sure I'm learning accurate information before I jump in.

Anyway, I have no idea where to start a Mode, or any scale for that matter. Let's say the key is A Major, it's Minor key is f# minor because of the same number of #'s that I understand. But I'm not sure if I should start a dorian scale on the A note (probably not) or a whole step above the A. I'm sure there's no rule saying that I can NEVER start on A, but I'm just wondering how to figure out what's accurate. Is there a way to link certain modes?

I've seem to get Lydian and Dorian to blend but I'm not sure what's going on. Any help would be appreciated, thanks!
#2
Well for one Dorian is minor mode due to the flat 3rd.

If you're playing the Dorian mode in A than you'll want to start on a B note considering Dorian is the second mode in A.
#3
If you look at it in a non musical point of view, the five patterns basically are the seven modes (Lydian and Locrian shifting root notes on same patterns) that all fit like a puzzle. That's why Ionian and Aeolian are Major and Minor, Dorian and Phrygian are Minor, Lydian and Mixolydian are Major (Locrian is the odd man out.) All because of where the "new" root note is, that is what makes Modes, it is "shifting" the root note. Try looking for the Major patterns all across the neck, then you'll see what I'm talking about.
No means maybe
#4
Quote by pilgrimevan
If you look at it in a non musical point of view, the five patterns basically are the seven modes (Lydian and Locrian shifting root notes on same patterns) that all fit like a puzzle. That's why Ionian and Aeolian are Major and Minor, Dorian and Phrygian are Minor, Lydian and Mixolydian are Major (Locrian is the odd man out.) All because of where the "new" root note is, that is what makes Modes, it is "shifting" the root note. Try looking for the Major patterns all across the neck, then you'll see what I'm talking about.


Yeah I realized all of them have the same two half steps and equal whole steps in different patterns.

I'm just wondering if a D major chord, should the lydian scale start on D, or if it can start anywhere as long as it isn't minor (which might not always be true). I think there's an exception for anything but... x_x

Quote by jimmyslashpage
Well for one Dorian is minor mode due to the flat 3rd.

If you're playing the Dorian mode in A than you'll want to start on a B note considering Dorian is the second mode in A.


f# is the relative minor, so should I start there rather than A major?


So what you're saying is, if you're in A You'd play

A Ionian
B Dorian
C Phrygian
etc?

or is there specific notes? What about the sharp and flat notes?
#5
Please slowly read through the theory link in my sig and/or the Crusade articles. When you have questions, ask something specific or quote a sentence that confuses you; Saying, "I don't get it," is useless.
#6
Quote by nan0


Anyway, I have no idea where to start a Mode, or any scale for that matter.


Modes don't "start" or "end" anywhere which is part of the trouble you're having with them. They have a root note, yes. But that doesn't define a start or end point, it defines a FUNCTION of the note in the scale. In fact, EVERY single note in the scale has a function, not just the root. Until you realize that, you're not going to understand modes very well.

In music theory, the basic function for every note is defined for the major scale. Everything else is essentially a comparison to that. That's generally the reason people around here will say understand the major scale before you try understanding modes.
#7
If you have a chord progression in C, then the root note of all the scales you CAN use is going to be C. I say CAN because any other scale simply wont exist in this context. If your chord progression is in C, you can't play D Dorian or F Lydian, they will just sound like the C major scale with the wrong notes stressed.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
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theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#8
Quote by jimmyslashpage
Well for one Dorian is minor mode due to the flat 3rd.

If you're playing the Dorian mode in A than you'll want to start on a B note considering Dorian is the second mode in A.


No, quit giving bad advice. You dont know how modes work. If you are playing Dorian in A, then you are playing in A.
#9
Quote by blueriver
No, quit giving bad advice. You dont know how modes work. If you are playing Dorian in A, then you are playing in A.


??
No, quit giving bad advice. you dont know how modes work.

If your playing the Dorian scale thats parent scale is A and your playing in the Key of A then you'll be playing A.
If your playing Dorian in A (A Dorian) then you'll be playing A Dorian
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#10
Quote by victoryaloy
??
No, quit giving bad advice. you dont know how modes work.

If your playing the Dorian scale thats parent scale is A and your playing in the Key of A then you'll be playing A.
If your playing Dorian in A (A Dorian) then you'll be playing A Dorian


This guy is right.

Playing A Dorian if you follow for instance chord changes in Jazz or if you modulate will NOT be the key.

If you play A dorian in the key of A minor, you are essentially playing a chromatic note,, since the Major 6th present in Dorian is not naturally in the key of A minor.

TS read the mode sticky, but it's best if you check out the crusades article first on this site, or else it could "confuse" ur mind if you don't have a GOOD understanding of intervals and the major/minor scale.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Feb 26, 2009,
#11
He means the natural sixth in Dorian TS.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#12
Well, I read about the perfect fifth, like if it's an E chord (major) play a Lydian on B note. Not sure how accurate that is though.
#13
Quote by nan0
Well, I read about the perfect fifth, like if it's an E chord (major) play a Lydian on B note. Not sure how accurate that is though.
That's a common misconception; it is, however, completely wrong. You play E scales over E-rooted chords/progressions/keys and B scales over B-rooted chords/progressions/keys.

What I mean by X-rooted is that X is the root of the chord and the other tones could be anything. E, Em, Edim, Em7b5, E13, and Em/maj9 are all E-rooted chords.

Edit: Ahhhh!!!!! What you said is even worse! (Sorry.) The common misconception is to play B Mixolydian or A Lydian over E major. B Lydian comes from F# major and has nothing to do with E.
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Feb 27, 2009,
#14
Quote by bangoodcharlote
That's a common misconception; it is, however, completely wrong. You play E scales over E-rooted chords/progressions/keys and B scales over B-rooted chords/progressions/keys.

What I mean by X-rooted is that X is the root of the chord and the other tones could be anything. E, Em, Edim, Em7b5, E13, and Em/maj9 are all E-rooted chords.

Edit: Ahhhh!!!!! What you said is even worse! (Sorry.) The common misconception is to play B Mixolydian or A Lydian over E major. B Lydian comes from F# major and has nothing to do with E.



I don't know I'm more confused now lol.

I know scales really depend on the Progression of the chords, it's what gives the scale it's "theme" sound or personality.

I just didn't want to be simple joe smoe and just play the scale in the same key each chord is in, maybe that's the right way to to do it. Even though there isn't really a 100% "right" way to music after all.

I'ma mess around with it.
#15
There are no wrong notes or combinations of notes (though you can certainly sound bad!), but there are rules governing nomenclature; naming modes is part of that.

Soloing in-key sounds fine and you can be very creative with just those seven tones once you're good. If you post a progression(s) over which you want to learn to solo, I'll show you common ways to approach it and some more unusual ways that will allow you to create your own unique style (this takes a while).
#16
Well I just saw this guy play a C major Scale over different chords.

He played Emajor and Fmaj over a Cmajor scale to make it sound phrygian which kinda confused me for a bit.

I understand how all scales are based off the major scale but I didn't think of it from a chord altering the way it sounds (stupid me)

Anyway, I was trying to find out when or when not to use lydian, I know it's an intense major scale so it's kinda limited in progressions. I need to learn more X_X
#17
Quote by victoryaloy
??
No, quit giving bad advice. you dont know how modes work.

If your playing the Dorian scale thats parent scale is A and your playing in the Key of A then you'll be playing A.
If your playing Dorian in A (A Dorian) then you'll be playing A Dorian


Ok now I'm confused. I apparently don't know how modes work. Dorian is a minor mode, so if I'm playing A dorian, the key is A minor right?
#18
Quote by blueriver
Ok now I'm confused. I apparently don't know how modes work. Dorian is a minor mode, so if I'm playing A dorian, the key is A minor right?



If your playing in the key of A minor, and you use the A Dorian scale you wouldn't be playing in A Dorian.. you'd be playing A minor and you would just be raising the 6th..


i'm going out on the limb(big time.. so don't quote me) when i say this.. but my guess that if you were to use the raised 6th it would probably be looked at more as a note from the melodic minor scale.. i know the the raised 6th usually leads to the leading tone but i have see it use in minor keys with a lowered 7th and evertime its been "analized" as being from the melodic minor. ...But i'm no expert
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Last edited by victoryaloy at Mar 1, 2009,
#19
I thought that A dorian would be considered in "A minor" because the tonal center is A. I understand that modes need certain progressions to work, and that playing dorian over an A minor progression is just adding an accidental and not playing modally. I thought that A dorian would be in the key of A though, which is where I got the A minor part for. What key would you say you were playing in? I learned that modes werent keys.
Last edited by blueriver at Mar 1, 2009,
#20
You really shouldn't be worrying about modes that this stage in the game. You are completely confused because you lack a thorough understanding of the fundamentals of theory, scales and harmony. I would suggest learning the major scale and its relative minor in all keys before attempting to tackle modes. I would imagine the majority of the music you listen to is hardly modal, anyway.
#21
a good way to eliminate the "mode" name confusion in major keys .. or any key..is use the roman numeral naming system...rather than lettering..

i would suggest the forum gurus use a standard system of naming "modes" ... this topic is a frustrating "tape loop" of the same questions...and the unfortunate part...the same answers

this way you can just say a ii chord in the key of G and your playing "A dorian" rather than someone saying I'm playing "A dorian" when they mean the ii chord (Bmi) in the key of A..

it takes some time and practice but you do not run into the duplicate chord names in different keys ... which what makes learning "modes" very confusing and many players just give up and never explore the inner secrets of scales..

play well

wolf
#22
A dorian as a few of you describe it, is approached more as a convention within a minor tonality.

If you have a progression going Am - G - Dm - Am it's in the key of A minor.

Now if you play Am- G - Dm - E7 - Am it's still in the key of A minor, and the E7 chord is a harmonic minor convention.

if you play Am - G - D (major) - Am; the D Chord is borrow from the parallel Dorian, since you use a Natural 6th and not a minor 6th interval which is the F# (Dm uses the natural F).

Still the key would be A minor and not A Dorian, and it's just a melodic/harmonic convention within in the Minor tonality.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Mar 1, 2009,