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#1
Hi UG,

i saw this movie of Jimi Hendrix at woodstock. It's an improvisation.

Here is the link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2460058168987804953

Nice ey, but anyway, here's my real question,

WTF is he actually doing musically here. I know mostly used the pentatonic scale.
But is this also just the pentatonic. He seems to be going chromatic alot. And i'm also wondering if this would be in 1 key or if he changes the key

Any of you theory geniuses want to give some input?

Thanx anyway
Last edited by oxokoning at Mar 1, 2009,
#2
don't try and analyse an improv. and improv is a spontanious blast of musicality. espcially with hendrix, it's just so beautiful. when you analyse it, it takes all the beauty out of it.
Quote by patriotplayer90
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#3
He was just messing around. If you'd asked him what he was doing he couldn't have told you in technical terms.
BTW I hate people who 'anchor' with their pinkie like that. No style at all.
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#4
He changes key a lot. For the beginning part it's all Em I believe. But then it changes.
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#5
Quote by Jhachey22
don't try and analyse an improv. and improv is a spontanious blast of musicality. espcially with hendrix, it's just so beautiful. when you analyse it, it takes all the beauty out of it.

Analysing it in no way takes the beauty out of it.

Analysing it just tells you why it sound so good (or bad) and this can often make a piece of music more impressive (or not), though I wouldn't say it ever effects beauty, because you realise how clever (or not) the stuff they are playing is.
#6
Quote by Jhachey22
don't try and analyse an improv. and improv is a spontanious blast of musicality. espcially with hendrix, it's just so beautiful. when you analyse it, it takes all the beauty out of it.


Yes you are right, for him that was a spontanious blast of musicality. But i aint hendrix, but i am just trying to learn guitar/music.
I am learning to improvising by ear training my self now. And analysing music is a great way to learn, not? But with hendrix i seem to get an overload and feel lost.You see?
So i understand you saying not to analyse it, but it's just a nice thing to do with music, to learn. Just made this thread to learn...
#7
Musically he is sounding awesome...
And there's a tab book for just that concert, I own it its awesome.
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#8
well a lot of that is in E. he does use some notes outside the pentatonic though. jimi used a bunch of passing tones in his playing. like in the beginning, he uses some phrygian stuff in the open position. some parts werent full improv though. ive heard some of those parts in other songs of that he was working on. but im not sure which came first actually. im not sure if he did them at woodstock first and then tried to make a song out of them, or had some ideas first and then threw them into that song at woodstock to make something interesting. my guess is he already had some ideas before hand. improv is actually 90% stuff we already know how to do. we just put it together in ne ways on the spot.
#9
Quote by Lurcher
He was just messing around. If you'd asked him what he was doing he couldn't have told you in technical terms.
BTW I hate people who 'anchor' with their pinkie like that. No style at all.

i wouldnt really call it anchoring. he still moves his hand around a lot. hes just resting his pinky and ring finger at times on the guitar. and as long as you are still loose it isnt anchoring. besides, what does that have to do with style?
#10
I can tell you what he's doing, but can you point out a few things you want to understand from the improvisation, cause it would take me 2 pages and a ****load of coffee to write every idea in that solo down

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#11
Quote by Jhachey22
don't try and analyse an improv. and improv is a spontanious blast of musicality. espcially with hendrix, it's just so beautiful. when you analyse it, it takes all the beauty out of it.

that's the dumbest bull**** I've ever heard.
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#12
Quote by Lurcher
He was just messing around. If you'd asked him what he was doing he couldn't have told you in technical terms.
BTW I hate people who 'anchor' with their pinkie like that. No style at all.

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#13
ive watched many videos of his improvisations and I never get it. Its a freaking mess. there is no coherence and there is nothing there other than a drug addled retard spazzing out playing purely from muscle memory.
#14
Quote by Tg57
ive watched many videos of his improvisations and I never get it. Its a freaking mess. there is no coherence and there is nothing there other than a drug addled retard spazzing out playing purely from muscle memory.

Hahaha, ok man.
#15
Quote by Tg57
ive watched many videos of his improvisations and I never get it. Its a freaking mess. there is no coherence and there is nothing there other than a drug addled retard spazzing out playing purely from muscle memory.


You're right, you don't get it
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#16
Quote by Tg57
ive watched many videos of his improvisations and I never get it. Its a freaking mess. there is no coherence and there is nothing there other than a drug addled retard spazzing out playing purely from muscle memory.


About time someone said it.
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#17
Quote by Gsaws
You're right, you don't get it


^

+ 1

I'm not a fan of every live performance of Hendrix, but he certainly wasn't retarded. The guy was quite intelligent, and a great musician.

Quote by Archeo Avis
About time someone said it.


What a surprise that you agree with that.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 1, 2009,
#18
What a surprise that you agree with that.


And so what? People on this forum deify him. The man was a marginally skilled musician who had the benefit of living in a culture that was receptive to the music he was making. People don't like his music because it's good, they like it because he made it. If anyone else were behind that improvisation, no one would like it as much as they do. Most would call it mindless shredding (and it is).
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Mar 1, 2009,
#19
Quote by Archeo Avis
And so what? People on this forum deify him.

So what? are you jealous?


Quote by Archeo Avis

The man was a marginally skilled musician who had the benefit of living in a culture that was receptive to the music he was making.


Umm yeah okay man. Whatever you need to tell yourself


Quote by Archeo Avis

People don't like his music because it's good, they like it because he made it. If anyone else were behind that improvisation, no one would like it as much as they do. Most would call it mindless shredding (and it is).


You really have issues man.


I can respect someone that says they don't care for his music, but the way you put it ..... that's just wrong.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 1, 2009,
#20
So what? are you jealous?


Jealousy is the belief that one's relationship is being threatened by another. I fail to see how it applies here.

I can respect someone that says they don't care for his music, but the way you put it ..... that's just wrong.


It's not. People improvise similar material all the time, and many more improvise vastly more coherent material. The only reason Hendrix gets as much praise as he does is because he's Hendrix. If someone ripped the audio from that video and told people it was played by someone else, possibly some unknown guitarist, people would dismiss it as mindless and amateurish.

I couldn't care less if you like his music. Just stop pretending that he represents the unreachable pinnacle musicianship.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Mar 1, 2009,
#21
Quote by Archeo Avis

I couldn't care less if you like his music. Just stop pretending that he represents the unreachable pinnacle musicianship.

Well of course not, he's good, but not the best. And it sounded like you're not a fan of muscle memory, which makes no sense.
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#22
Quote by aetherspear
And it sounded like you're not a fan of muscle memory, which makes no sense.


...what?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#23
Quote by Archeo Avis


Just stop pretending that he represents the unreachable pinnacle musicianship.


When did I state anything even remotely implying that he represents "the unreachable pinnacle musicianship". (btw I don't think that anybody represents that)



anyway, Hendrix made some music that many, many people enjoy. How many of us here can say that about our own music?
#24
Quote by GuitarMunky
^

+ 1

I'm not a fan of every live performance of Hendrix, but he certainly wasn't retarded. The guy was quite intelligent, and a great musician.



But hang on. To be a musician must you be able to read music?
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#25
Quote by baylewis
But hang on. To be a musician must you be able to read music?


Actually you have to play music. That's it. For most people, reading is helpful, but it certainly isn't definitive.
#26
he was high on acid so he was just messing around.

But he definetly new his scales well enough that he could go between them and make it sound good.
Just know scales what they are and how to solo in them and between them and stuff.
#27
Quote by Tg57
ive watched many videos of his improvisations and I never get it. Its a freaking mess. there is no coherence and there is nothing there other than a drug addled retard spazzing out playing purely from muscle memory.

Kind of reminds me of your typing.
#28
Quote by baylewis
But hang on. To be a musician must you be able to read music?


No, you don't have to be able to read music to be a musician.
#29
Quote by GuitarMunky
No, you don't have to be able to read music to be a musician.


Yeah, you can look at guys like Paco de Lucia and Wes Montgomery who (for a while at least) couldn't read well, but could still play music at some of its highest levels.


Two things about Hendrix:
- I've always thought that improv was a pile of crap.
- Despite that, I still do NOT think that Hendrix was just another guitar player who was simply lucky. The man was a phenomenal entertainer when he was on his game, and while I wouldn't put him down as the best player, I really enjoy his rhythm playing and also dig his sound in general.


While y'all can certainly disagree with each other, please refrain from personal insults just because someone doesn't share your view.
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#30
All of his improv is crap? I don't agree with that at all, though I have heard some live stuff that I didn't care for all that much. Even so, in the studio alot of what he did was improv. I definitely consider him a great improviser. (I don't see things in terms of "best" anyway when it comes to art)

Anyway, why focus on putting people down, when you can appreciate the good they had to offer and enjoy the inspiration that it brings?
#31
Quote by GuitarMunky
All of his improv is crap? I don't agree with that at all, though I have heard some live stuff that I didn't care for all that much. Even so, in the studio alot of what he did was improv. I definitely consider him a great improviser. (I don't see things in terms of "best" anyway when it comes to art)

Anyway, why focus on putting people down, when you can appreciate the good they had to offer and enjoy the inspiration that it brings?


I said that particular improv. Other ones that I've heard have been enjoyable, but I really think that this one just isn't good.

I don't see anything wrong with being critical. It's not a matter of music as competition as much as the fact that I like some things and I also dislike others. Why can't I enjoy the good (and I think he's done a lot that's good) and pan the bad?
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#32
Quote by psychodelia
I said that particular improv. Other ones that I've heard have been enjoyable, but I really think that this one just isn't good.


Oh I see. Sorry I misunderstood you there. I thought you meant his imrov, as in his ability to improv. I this case agree then. I don't care for that 1 either.... I would also consider it to be "crappy".

Quote by psychodelia

I don't see anything wrong with being critical. It's not a matter of music as competition as much as the fact that I like some things and I also dislike others. Why can't I enjoy the good (and I think he's done a lot that's good) and pan the bad?


I don't disagree with that either, Everyone likes what they like.
I don't have a problem with people not liking Hendrix, or even saying that a particular solo is crappy. When it gets to personal stuff like saying he was just a retard on drugs that spazzed out.... that's the stuff I'm talking about. Anyway I'm over it now lol..... and actually I think that guy was banned.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 1, 2009,
#33
^ yeah, I banned him, he trolled us in the shred forum too. Funnily enough, it seems that Rusty Cooley and Hendrix both happen to have the same problem with mindless shredding, all those years apart.

Funny how the shred forum's so used to that particular kind of mentality it just didn't raise an eyebrow.
#34
Quote by Archeo Avis
And so what? People on this forum deify him. The man was a marginally skilled musician who had the benefit of living in a culture that was receptive to the music he was making. People don't like his music because it's good, they like it because he made it. If anyone else were behind that improvisation, no one would like it as much as they do. Most would call it mindless shredding (and it is).

that doesnt make any sense. in order for people to like the person who plays, they have to first like his music. you cant just come on the scene out of nowhere and have people just like you and then like your music because its you. its either good or its not. and a lot of people like this so it cant be that bad. everything made sense in the song musically and he put all those ideas together nicely.

hendrix did in fact make some interesting music. i wouldnt call that improv piece mindless shred at all. the beginning had some wanking, but then it actually goes into something. listen to villanova junction after this improv. some of the note choices are pretty good for someone who knows pretty much no theory.
#35
The beggining of this improv is definantly wank/crap, but it really builds up a few minutes into it. Theres moments that are really cool
#36
Yes the improvisation is random in places.

But essentially, that is a true improvisation in a sense.

Jazzers try out random chromatics, and make sure they fall back on chord tones.

Hendrix plays random and falls back on blues licks.

Jazz is just mentally more challenging, but ultimately the result is the output.

And I do like Hendrix's songs alot, his improvisation not so much.

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#37
Quote by Archeo Avis
And so what? People on this forum deify him. The man was a marginally skilled musician who had the benefit of living in a culture that was receptive to the music he was making. People don't like his music because it's good, they like it because he made it. If anyone else were behind that improvisation, no one would like it as much as they do. Most would call it mindless shredding (and it is).


I like it because it's good, and so do lots of people. You generalize too much dude.

sure his live shows were sometimes bad, as he was a drug-addled individual. but his studio work was dynamite, and he was more than marginally skilled, no matter which way you slice it. you can't sell as many records as Jimi sold, and continues to sell, if you aren't somewhat good.
#39
Quote by frigginjerk
I like it because it's good, and so do lots of people. You generalize too much dude.

sure his live shows were sometimes bad, as he was a drug-addled individual. but his studio work was dynamite, and he was more than marginally skilled, no matter which way you slice it. you can't sell as many records as Jimi sold, and continues to sell, if you aren't somewhat good.

he really didnt do as many drugs as everyone seems to think he did. he travelled around way too much and got very little sleep. if he wasnt playing live, they were in the studio. id say if anything him just being run down so much was why his shows sometimes suffered. also, personal issues sometimes got in the way.
#40
I don't understand why some people are always so eager to discredit Hendrix. Even if you don't like his music, you have to give him credit for his innovation with the electric guitar. There's a good reason so many people were in awe of him back in the day. No one had ever heard anyone play like that before.

Quote by Archeo Avis
People don't like his music because it's good, they like it because he made it


Do you know how hard it was for a black musician to go mainstream in America during the 60's (the era of the civil rights movement)?

There's a reason he spent the beginning of his career in Britain.

You're a fool if you think people only liked him because of his personality. People accepted him because of his music.

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Last edited by Guitartist at Mar 2, 2009,
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