#1
Now, I'm a semi-theory noob. I am just venturing into the world of actually learning what I do, and attempting to go beyond pentatonic solos.

I love the sound of George Benson type players, and even in theme tunes that have a jazz feel (Frasier...), the little jazz licks. I don't expect to people able to jam with Miles Davis overnight, but are there any shortcuts to just achieve that sound?
#2
no

Simple reason, they sound what they sound like because what they play. Taking notes out will sound less then them.

IT depends how much you want to emulate them.

Ofcourse you don't need 10 years practice to get a slight jazz inflection on ur playing, but you sure as hell need to understand voice leading, chord tones, and common/stylistic jazz chord alterations.

This is not really difficult. The difficulty lies in improvising with those, but writing isn't.

www.jazzguitar.be has helped me with alot of jazz stylistic ideas, you should check it out.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Mar 2, 2009,
#3
well i think the way to go is to learn some common jazz phrases. that can get you a decent jazz infunced sound. you wont sound like a jazz guitarist by any means though.
#4
use your vibrato a bit more, use blues scales for your soloing and practice the riffs *shrugs*
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#8
minor pentatonic but adding major notes for example in the key of a on the b string play 5 and 7 as well as the 8
or on the g string and the note in between the usuall minor pentatonic notes

to me its how you play them thats a little more impotant than what you play
#9
Moustaches are far superior for jazz.


Listen to jazz and imitate what you hear. Don't worry about notes. Just get the swing into your bones.
#10
Quote by metaladdict123
minor pentatonic but adding major notes for example in the key of a on the b string play 5 and 7 as well as the 8
or on the g string and the note in between the usuall minor pentatonic notes

to me its how you play them thats a little more impotant than what you play

That's for blues, not jazz ffs

Vibrato ain't going to help either, most of the jazz players i've heard tend to play straight notes with little vibrato or bending, they aim to generate interest and "emotion" purely through their choice of notes rather than how they articulate them.

Best advice i can give is know your chords, know how to follow them and most importantly know how the next note you play will affect both the harmony and the melody - arguably that goes for any soloing but in jazz it's more about the chord of the moment rather than the key itself.
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#11
Quote by gabcd86
Now, I'm a semi-theory noob. I am just venturing into the world of actually learning what I do, and attempting to go beyond pentatonic solos.

I love the sound of George Benson type players, and even in theme tunes that have a jazz feel (Frasier...), the little jazz licks. I don't expect to people able to jam with Miles Davis overnight, but are there any shortcuts to just achieve that sound?


Don't look for cheats or shortcuts. Take some time and listen to the music itself. Absorb whatever you can from listening to it (and learning about it when you have the proper background to make sense of it).

It takes time. Don't be in a hurry, just enjoy the music and get something worthwhile out of it.
#12
I think jazz, more than any other genre, really tests your ability to listen to what the other instruments are doing and react to it.
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#13
Quote by steven seagull
I think jazz, more than any other genre, really tests your ability to listen to what the other instruments are doing and react to it.



This is true.

It's not so much about composition, rather then extending tonally on the composition daring to go outside.

That's why you have 100's of standards or so.

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#14
I don't know if this helps but, im not at all really a jazz player although saying that i play ALOT of diffrent styles but im mostly a rock/metal player, been playing for about 3 years, know funk all theory and thats how i like it :P

but a few months ago i started looking at very jazzy chords like 7ths 9ths blah blah and just from learning like 8 or so new chords it has changed my playing completely, i can pull of my interpritations and versons of jazz, funk all that kinda stuff but also it has opened up my hands if you like and i come up with alot of chords and little veriations to them and such (all by ear ofc) but i wouldn't of done this before simply because all these new chords are played very diffrently from what im used to.
#15
Quote by Zakk_Lp
I don't know if this helps but, im not at all really a jazz player although saying that i play ALOT of diffrent styles but im mostly a rock/metal player, been playing for about 3 years, know funk all theory and thats how i like it :P

but a few months ago i started looking at very jazzy chords like 7ths 9ths blah blah and just from learning like 8 or so new chords it has changed my playing completely, i can pull of my interpritations and versons of jazz, funk all that kinda stuff but also it has opened up my hands if you like and i come up with alot of chords and little veriations to them and such (all by ear ofc) but i wouldn't of done this before simply because all these new chords are played very diffrently from what im used to.



Yes, but remember Jazz goes both ways.

Very jazz like is it, to play for instance a G7b9 chord and then play the b9 interval on top, so you follow the harmony outside of the diatonic frame work.

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#16
Just play mixolydian the whole time.

/joke

If you already have a grasp on improvisation and "playing the changes", look into some jazz theory and typical jazz harmony. Start from there I guess.

I really suggest you get a teacher if you want to get the most out of it. Jazz is a very wide subject with it's own set of theoretical devices.
#18
There's no way to cheat at guitar, you either get it to sound like that by playing it or you don't.
#19
Use approach tones. This isn't actually quality jazz phrasing- hence "cheating." You'll fool a few listeners, though.
#20
There is no way to cheat in music, it's all about making sound. If you find an easier, unconventional way to make the desired sound, that method is just better, not cheating.
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#21
Special chords and special scales won't make you magically sound jazz.

Jazz is about improvising, rhthym and being laid back. If you're on your high horse or being pretentious, you're not playing jazz. Keeping in mind, jazz is a music created by black blues (jazz and blues are almost the same things) musicians with stolen instruments (usually brass instruments, guitar is NOT a natural jazz instrument) and too many drugs. Jazz isn't stupidly extended chords or special scales or jedi music theory, you can play jazz perfectly with pentatonics. It all comes down to that smooth, laid back phrasing.

You want an answer? Get some weed, get your instrument, listen to some jazz. If all else fails, sell your soul at the crossroads.
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[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
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        L.
#22
Quote by demonofthenight
Special chords and special scales won't make you magically sound jazz.

Jazz is about improvising, rhthym and being laid back. If you're on your high horse or being pretentious, you're not playing jazz. Keeping in mind, jazz is a music created by black blues (jazz and blues are almost the same things) musicians with stolen instruments (usually brass instruments, guitar is NOT a natural jazz instrument) and too many drugs. Jazz isn't stupidly extended chords or special scales or jedi music theory, you can play jazz perfectly with pentatonics. It all comes down to that smooth, laid back phrasing.

You want an answer? Get some weed, get your instrument, listen to some jazz. If all else fails, sell your soul at the crossroads.


This is true, only that's not the point of TS

Jazz itself is the mindset yes 100% agreed.

But TS listened to jazz and purely enjoys the note choice of the artists he stated. That has nothing to do with the mindset, and written jazz is in a way not "true" jazz.

I call that fusion writing, cause jazz is not a true genre by nature, but more a genre which got it's musical traits by a mental approach and not a pure theoretic point of view.

But this really goes for almost every music genre.

The only reason why it isn't extreme in it's dynamics/phrasing like metal or rock is very simple. To make "outside" notes and chromatics work, you need everything to be stable so it's easier to follow.

IF you have smooth chord tones then this specific continuity will allow for chromatics cause there's this continuity going and, and you know what to expect when and where if you listen to jazz the way artist think in playing jazz.

Ofcourse you have people who play fusion like Greg Howe who cross this line, and petrucci who often has this tiny tasty expansion in his solo's which go into slight jazz trait territory.

Which is probably the reason why they stand out just a bit more then ur generic shredder

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Mar 3, 2009,
#24
play major ninth, and major seventh chords just like how you play major and minor chords and I swear, you'll sound jazzy...
#25
I think the problem here is the definitions: jazz is impossible to create a definition for outside of silly historical genre-sorting ("mode of thought" or "process" do well though) and jazzy has an entirely different meaning. It represents chiefly the superficial aspects of a sound that are recognizable by a broad sample.

If you want to sound jazzy, learn some cliches.

If you want to play jazz, it's not difficult. Spend some time listening, get the sound in you. Let that play you.
#26
Quote by Nick_

If you want to sound jazzy, learn some cliches.

If you want to play jazz, it's not difficult. Spend some time listening, get the sound in you. Let that play you.



Well said
shred is gaudy music
#27
Quote by demonofthenight
Special chords and special scales won't make you magically sound jazz.

Jazz is about improvising, rhthym and being laid back. If you're on your high horse or being pretentious, you're not playing jazz. Keeping in mind, jazz is a music created by black blues (jazz and blues are almost the same things) musicians with stolen instruments (usually brass instruments, guitar is NOT a natural jazz instrument) and too many drugs. Jazz isn't stupidly extended chords or special scales or jedi music theory, you can play jazz perfectly with pentatonics. It all comes down to that smooth, laid back phrasing.

You want an answer? Get some weed, get your instrument, listen to some jazz. If all else fails, sell your soul at the crossroads.

have you ever listened to jazz or blues? probably not
#28
Quote by demonofthenight
Special chords and special scales won't make you magically sound jazz.

Jazz is about improvising, rhthym and being laid back. If you're on your high horse or being pretentious, you're not playing jazz. Keeping in mind, jazz is a music created by black blues (jazz and blues are almost the same things) musicians with stolen instruments (usually brass instruments, guitar is NOT a natural jazz instrument) and too many drugs. Jazz isn't stupidly extended chords or special scales or jedi music theory, you can play jazz perfectly with pentatonics. It all comes down to that smooth, laid back phrasing.

You want an answer? Get some weed, get your instrument, listen to some jazz. If all else fails, sell your soul at the crossroads.


That's ridiculous. I can think of countless examples of solo by great jazzers were the phrasing was anything but "laid back". Also your concept of "natural jazz instruments" is absurd. Sure, some instruments are more commonly used in jazz, but NO instrument is a "natural jazz instrument". The only instrument I can think of that would fit that description would be the human voice. Also that part about getting some weed was probably tongue in check but was still totally unnecessary and not helpful.
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#29
I personally would like to see somebody try to play some Holdsworth-ian/McLaughlin-esque lines on weed
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#30
Quote by J.A.M
I personally would like to see somebody try to play some Holdsworth-ian/McLaughlin-esque lines on weed

**** that's all I did for like a month. Smoked and played some Mahavishnu orchestra tracks.
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#31
Quote by aetherspear
**** that's all I did for like a month. Smoked and played some Mahavishnu orchestra tracks.

>.>

<.<

Vids or gtfo
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#32
Quote by J.A.M
>.>

<.<

Vids or gtfo



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#33
If you want to sound jazzy, you have to use the Melodic Minor scale. My favorite is the Altered Dominant... sounds very Jazzy!!
#34
Quote by steven seagull
That's for blues, not jazz ffs

Vibrato ain't going to help either, most of the jazz players i've heard tend to play straight notes with little vibrato or bending, they aim to generate interest and "emotion" purely through their choice of notes rather than how they articulate them.

Best advice i can give is know your chords, know how to follow them and most importantly know how the next note you play will affect both the harmony and the melody - arguably that goes for any soloing but in jazz it's more about the chord of the moment rather than the key itself.

ah, I suppose it depends what jazz you're into, I was thinking more along the lines of (pardon the cliche) george benson era over the eddie lockjaw or miles davis era. Mind, most of the bands I know have been playing the melody with guitars due to the lack of brass in the age group of 15-18 in this area. That might have something to do with it.
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Ahahaha TS just got gobsmacked.
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