#1
I tried search and found nothing that helped me, so: In Dream Theater's Overture 1928 there's this rather fast part that has this little string skipping bit:


E||--------------------------------------||
B||-----------14-------------------------||
G||-----------------------------14-15-17-||
D||--14-15-16----16-15-14-15-16----------||
A||--------------------------------------|| etc.
E||--------------------------------------||



Those are sixteenth triplets and I'm talking about that D-16 B-14 D-16 skip there. The lick goes at tempo 112bpm. That just seems impossible for me. I've tried to take that slow for a week now, but at tempo 112 it's just too fast. There's no time to lift the pick so that it would jump over the G-string.

If someone can play it with lifting the pick, then please tell me... I'd gladly be wrong... but a more serious question would be: is that only possible to play with muting the G-string?

And if this is possible to be played without touching the G-string, could someone give me some hints about how to align the pick in down/upstrokes, how to do the lift... and so on. That just seems physically impossible to me.

And if you're just gonna tell me "practice more", then please, keep it to yourself. I'm all for practicing, but I want to know how to practice this one correctly. I've read that advanced techniques thread and was surprised to see that it had nothing about string skipping.

I mean... I know it's just skipping a string and some people tell you "it's common in classical music"... that is usually played with fingerpicking and not with a pick. But I consider this very hard. Man, I learned to sweep faster.

Thank you.
#2
Well, first tell me this.......


What's your picking motion like, and do you anchor ?
#3
use your middle finger ffs^^ hybrid
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#4
I'm not an expert on string skipping, but I'd recommend looking up videos of Paul Gilbert, Micheal Romeo and Shawn Lane, who are all insanely good at licks like these.
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#5
maybe he uses his finger, Petrucci seems like the kind of player to do that and just throw it in there, try looking at the Kirk Hammett technique first and then see if you can apply it here
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#6
I would hybrid pick it.

ie. you play all notes with ur pick, but the 1 stringskip note you can play with ur right hand (picking hand's) middle or ring finger.

I use string skipping in situations where you string skip and play like 3 notes.

Example;

I would string skip this with alternate picking;

e|----------12-14-15-|
B|-------------------|
G|-12-14-15----------|
D|-------------------|
A|-------------------|
E|-------------------|


I don't want to start a fight, but it definitely just needs practice to do with a pick.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Mar 3, 2009,
#7
I'm not gonna do it hybrid. Maybe later, but at this point it's not something I'm willing to put my effort into.

Quote by Orbit91
Well, first tell me this.......

What's your picking motion like, and do you anchor ?


Well, as I said, I've been practicing this slowly trying to minimize the picking motion and the amount of space that leaves between the pick and the G-string when passing over it. But there's still that lift and with faster speeds it seems to be too big of a motion to make.

I used to try anchoring, because I saw that Petrucci played like that. Then I red some post here and stopped it. Didn't do any harm cause I only anchored a short perioid of time... I didn't get used to it.

Quote by J.A.M
I'm not an expert on string skipping, but I'd recommend looking up videos of Paul Gilbert, Micheal Romeo and Shawn Lane, who are all insanely good at licks like these.

Where can I find these videos? I mean seriously. I've tried to look Youtube and Google vids and every place through to find something about this subject, but quite frankly... every vid I've found about string skipping, sucks. Even Gilbert when teaching these great string skipping licks... only names the notes he's playing.

I can think of unlimited amount of licks... so that doesn't help me. I'd be interested in learning the technique, not just some patterns of notes.
#8
Um, if you've looked on Youtube and don't like what you've seen, fair enough. But I have no idea where else to find videos.
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#9
Actually, what I said about that hybrid thing... it could be fairly easy to learn. So, I'll try that, but I'd still appreciate it if someone knows how to actually pick that lick.
#10
Well, approach it like this then, see the downstrokes as outside strokes and the upstrokes as inside strokes.

When you pick the last note before the string skip, kind of glide over it, and then do the same with the string skipping upstroke, hopefully after a tiny bit of practice you'll get that motion down, then string skipping will be much easier.

Infact, you're lucky, I lead with the upstroke, so that's an inside picking lick for me
#11
Quote by Orbit91
When you pick the last note before the string skip, kind of glide over it, and then do the same with the string skipping upstroke, hopefully after a tiny bit of practice you'll get that motion down, then string skipping will be much easier.

Infact, you're lucky, I lead with the upstroke, so that's an inside picking lick for me

So by gliding you mean that the pick touches the string in the middle and I just mute it? Well this brings me back to my point: this isn't possible to be played by actually jumping over the string but only muting it?

You lead with the upstroke? I'm not sure if I understood, but that sounds kinda strange.
#12
Here;

Video of me doing it without hybrid picking. pure alternate picking so D, U, D, U, D, U etc.
http://www.box.net/shared/60fq8jaygn

How did I do it; Practice

Sorry it is true what they say

Dunno if the rhythm/tempo is correct, but you get the point.

Just alternate pick and start slowly, ur muscle will get it. For some it takes longer, for other's it's easy, that's something there's no solution for.

I anchored btw, but I can do it without anchoring as well, cause you can't anchor with hybrid picking, so best to learn without anchoring.

I could make a video on hybrid picking, but it's pretty self explanatory. It's like finger picking and normal picking combined.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Mar 3, 2009,
#13
I could do it with jumping the G-string. I've not learned that particular lick but but I know others that involve similar string skipping at faster speeds.
You've just got to alternate pick it like darren said. Make sure you keep the down, up pattern even when changing strings (that means that you'll be hitting the Db on an upstroke).
Start at a speed where you can comfortably do the string skip and slowly build it up.

Edit: You could also try playing the Db on the 18th fret of the G string rather than the 14th on the B, but I think it'd be better to just learn the string skip.

Edit 2: Another thing is to check how much of your pick is actually hitting the string? It should be a very small amount and if so it shouldn't require a particularly large lift to skip over the G.
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Last edited by LeperAffinity at Mar 3, 2009,
#14
Quote by January85
So by gliding you mean that the pick touches the string in the middle and I just mute it? Well this brings me back to my point: this isn't possible to be played by actually jumping over the string but only muting it?

You lead with the upstroke? I'm not sure if I understood, but that sounds kinda strange.

Yup, oddly enough Marty Friedman, Allan Holdsworth and Michael Romeo lead with the upstroke, luckily it doesn't affect them :P

And by gliding I mean like in one movement, the issue with this lick isn't that you're fast enough, it's that your wasting too much motion
#15
Quote by January85

Those are sixteenth triplets and I'm talking about that D-16 B-14 D-16 skip there. The lick goes at tempo 112bpm. That just seems impossible for me. I've tried to take that slow for a week now, but at tempo 112 it's just too fast.


Slow it down and practice, try it at 60BPM, then up it by 5 each time untill you cant do it anymore.
What's your fastest chromatic alternate picking speed? That could help if we knew it. It would Tell us if its a speed problem, or a technique problem. Do you mess up, or are you just slow at it.
#16
The exercises from the book "Rock Discipline" by Petrucci is very helpful for string skipping.
#18
Yup, oddly enough Marty Friedman, Allan Holdsworth and Michael Romeo lead with the upstroke,

As does Gilbert.

I think I see a pattern..
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#19
Quote by Freepower
Check the AT sticky for tips on how to practice.

I can get this lick both ways but I'd definately hybrid it.


Yeah, I did. What do you think I've been doing the past week?

But as I said, I'll try and do it with hybrid, because it seems like a 100x easier to do. It's good to know that it can be done with string skipping, but with the work I've been putting to it, I guess it will take months and months to get there.

Quote by Orbit91
And by gliding I mean like in one movement, the issue with this lick isn't that you're fast enough, it's that your wasting too much motion

I've practiced it slow, forget 60bpm, I've done it 30bpm. And about that gliding, that's exactly how I'm doing it.

I can get it go randomly with 112bpm, but of course that's not something that anyone would like.

I practice only that skipping part as such:
E||--------------------------------------||
B||------14------14------14------14------||
G||--------------------------------------||
D||--16------16------16------16------16--||
A||--------------------------------------||
E||--------------------------------------||


And I can get it go cleanly at 90bpm. After that the motion for the skip just seems to take too much time. And I've tried to cut away everything that's excess in my picking motion.

Oh well.
Last edited by January85 at Mar 4, 2009,
#20
Quote by J.A.M
As does Gilbert.

I think I see a pattern..

Haha, I just realized, he does


^ Looks like you'll need to woodshed with the PG lick of death
#21
Quote by January85
Yeah, I did. What do you think I've been doing the past week?

But as I said, I'll try and do it with hybrid, because it seems like a 100x easier to do. It's good to know that it can be done with string skipping, but with the work I've been putting to it, I guess it will take months and months to get there.


I've practiced it slow, forget 60bpm, I've done it 30bpm. And about that gliding, that's exactly how I'm doing it.

I can get it go randomly with 112bpm, but of course that's not something that anyone would like.

I practice only that skipping part as such:
E||--------------------------------------||
B||------14------14------14------14------||
G||--------------------------------------||
D||--16------16------16------16------16--||
A||--------------------------------------||
E||--------------------------------------||


And I can get it go cleanly at 90bpm. After that the motion for the skip just seems to take too much time. And I've tried to cut away everything that's excess in my picking motion.

Oh well.

Yes it takes months, noone said it's gonna be easy. Petrucci's ballpark and the shred ballpark in general are build on the principle of getting the most extreme out of the guitar, so naturally its' 1 of the hardest to learn.

Although this is not always true, cause there are many other aspects (dynamics, note control, vibrato etc.)which are considered hard to master as well, but I would put this into virtuoso "territory".

I suggest the following 2 licks. They are separate lick and check the picking pattern. Don't play it as 1 lick cause this won't benefit you into getting comfortable with inside picking and outside picking.

This lick in the long run will do much more for ur technique. Start both licks on a Downpick and stay strict alternate picking. If you economy pick or hybrid pick it, the learning effect is gone;

You can also start both licks on an uppick when you get this down to inrease ur technique even more, but you must pick strict alternate picking.

With this pattern you will practice both inside and outside picking when stringskipping to a higher string as well as a lower string.

You can change the strings when you get these down and try bigger skips; But follow the picking way as described always, or else it won't give the best results.



  Lick 1                       Lick 2
e|----------------------------|----------------------------|
B|----------12-14-15----------|-12-14-15----------12-14-15-|
G|----------------------------|----------------------------|
D|-12-14-15----------12-14-15-|----------12-14-15----------|
A|----------------------------|----------------------------|
E|----------------------------|----------------------------|
   [B]D[/B]  U  D  U  D  U  D  U  D    [B]D[/B]  U  D  U  D  U  D  U  D

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Mar 4, 2009,
#22
Quote by xxdarrenxx
noone said it's gonna be easy.

That's like this place's catchphrase. Jesus.

Look, I know that no one said it's gonna be easy. And I just said it myself that it's gonna take months. What's with you?

"It's gonna take months to practice that."
- "Yeah, but you know... it's gonna take months to practice that!"

Ok, so you know it too. Great!

E: Thanks for that exercise tho. It's nice to get help.
Last edited by January85 at Mar 4, 2009,
#23
Quote by January85
That's like this place's catchphrase. Jesus.

Look, I know that no one said it's gonna be easy. And I just said it myself that it's gonna take months. What's with you?

"It's gonna take months to practice that."
- "Yeah, but you know... it's gonna take months to practice that!"

Ok, so you know it too. Great!

E: Thanks for that exercise tho. It's nice to get help.


Sorry I don't analyzes everyone's posts

Anyway np. It will help most definitely.

Lil motivation;

It took Satriani around 15 years to bring out his first solo album, so you have plenty of time.

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