#1
lets say im playing a standard blues riff in A

A7 D7 E7 kinda thing.

i want to practice my dorian lead chops ( more create some at present).
can dorian be fit over any of these chords or do they have to be modified slightly?
#2
Dorian is not ideal over dominant chords.

If you wanted to play Dorian, you would probably be better off using chord other than that blues riff.

Just use a m7 chord, or if you feel the need, add a major 6th in.

I think a Dorian progression that some people use is ii - V7, like Dm7 - G7

don't quote me on that though
#3
Check my; How to make modal chord progressions" lesson in my sig.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#4
Quote by branny1982
Dorian is not ideal over dominant chords.


^^ agreed.

Try the Mixolydian mode for this
#5
Quote by jsantos
^^ agreed.

Try the Mixolydian mode for this


Actually, try not playing modes at all. The progression isn't modal.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#6
Quote by Archeo Avis
Actually, try not playing modes at all. The progression isn't modal.


Cause it's not Amaj7, Dmaj7 and E7?
#7
^no, that would be an A Major progression.

For something to be modal it has to resolve (have a tonal centre) somewhere other than the I or vi degree.

In the case of Dorian, the tonal centre must be stable around the ii degree. I think Dm7 - G7 works ok. Ideally 3 bars D, 1 bar G
#8
Cause on a site I found this:

Modal Progressions consist of chords created exclusively from one mode. Like any chord progression, the chord sequences must produce resolution to the I chord of the key.

So I thought, A ionian progression (I - IV - V) = Amaj7, Dmaj7 and E7.
Last edited by deHufter at Mar 3, 2009,
#9
Quote by deHufter
Cause on a site I found this:

Modal Progressions consist of chords created exclusively from one mode. Like any chord progression, the chord sequences must produce resolution to the I chord of the key.

So I thought, A ionian progression (I - IV - V) = Amaj7, Dmaj7 and E7.


Ionian is not synonymous with "major", and implies modal music. There is absolutely no reason to call that progression anything other than A major.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#10
*sigh*

But that was my question aarggh...If it was a modal progression then you should've seen
Amaj7, Dmaj7 and E7 right?
#11
Quote by deHufter
*sigh*

But that was my question aarggh...If it was a modal progression then you should've seen
Amaj7, Dmaj7 and E7 right?


That's just a 1 - 4 - 5 in the key of A Major.

*sigh* I will post again, check my 2nd link in my sig to see how to make a modal progression or check out the Sticky on modes on this page.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#12
Why can't a modal progression be I - IV - V where you play as I Amaj7, with A ionian mode over it, as IV Dmaj7with D lydian and as V E7 with E mixolydian?

In other words what is fundamentally wrong with the above to be considered as a modal progression?
Last edited by deHufter at Mar 3, 2009,
#13
Quote by deHufter
Why can't a modal progression be I - IV - V where you play as I Amaj7, with A ionian mode over it, as IV Dmaj7with D lydian and as V E7 with E mixolydian?


Because that's not how modes work. Read the sticky.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#14
Quote by Archeo Avis
Because that's not how modes work. Read the sticky.


I did, but still I dont get it.

In the very first example there's a I - IV progression, is this modal? If yes, why isn't
I - IV - V?
#15
Quote by deHufter
I did, but still I dont get it.

I the very first example there's a I - IV progression, is this modal? If yes, why isn't
I - IV - V?


The sticky explains the difference between tonal and modal music. Read through all the links and make sure you have a firm grasp on tonal harmony. Don't worry about modes until you do. You've established with your "play ionian lydian and mixolydian over a I-IV-V progression" remark that you either haven't read the sticky, or haven't spent any time learning the prerequisite knowledge.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#16
Shoot me....

For what i know is that a standard jazz progression is ii - V - I, and you can play for example the dorian, mixolydian and ionian modes over them. What is wrong with this and why isn't this modal?

Maybe it makes no sense to you, but you dont make sense to me....

cant you really explain in like 5 lines what im doing wrong here and what the difference is between tonal and modal music without referring to links?
Last edited by deHufter at Mar 3, 2009,
#17
Quote by deHufter
Shoot me....

For what i know is that a standard jazz progression is ii - V - I, and you can play for example the dorian, mixolydian and ionian modes over them. What is wrong with this and why isn't this modal?

Maybe it makes no sense to you, but you dont make sense to me....

cant you really explain in like 5 lines what im doing wrong here and what the difference is between tonal and modal music without referring to links?


That isn't modal, but is because of the mindset of most jazz artists. They think freely and try to break as many "musical rules" as they can while being "smooth".

The classic stereotype, but for alot of people I know and see it's oh so true

They don't play modal music, they use the notes of the modes to solo over it, and is entirely different concept.

In ease it's more like this;

Modal Music = Harmony based
Modal use of notes in solo's/leads/improvisations = Melody based.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#18
The ii, V, I cadence is tonal; the 3 together constitute a M key: a M scale. To call that Dorian, Mixolydian & Ionian, as jazz pedagogues do, is incorrect & unnecessarily tedious.

LOL

okay, I will read the site where i got this from
#19
Quote by deHufter
The ii, V, I cadence is tonal; the 3 together constitute a M key: a M scale. To call that Dorian, Mixolydian & Ionian, as jazz pedagogues do, is incorrect & unnecessarily tedious.

LOL

okay, I will read the site where i got this from


Lol yes the harmony is a Major key, not a Dorian key or so which don't even exist.

Key is based on harmony, and you only have Major keys and Minor keys.

They use mode names for communication.

I mean saying to a friend; "I wrote a lick using the intervals: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, b7 over a G7 chord" is tedious compared to saying "I Wrote a mixolydian lick over a G7 chord"

And since all jazz-ers do = improvise, it could end up utterly confusing to name all the intervals every time you come up with a lick or to ask someone to improvise using those notes.

The correct term for playing that is playing "chromatic notes" which is often used to to describe it.

Naming the modes is to give a more detailed insight on ur note choices.

If a jazzer would play the notes of D Dorian over a Dm7 chord, but plays a b2 instead of a natural 2nd, he could say he used Dorian b2 to solo over it, but it's true term is a chromatic note.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Mar 3, 2009,
#20
Quote by deHufter
Modal Progressions consist of chords created exclusively from one mode. Like any chord progression, the chord sequences must produce resolution to the I chord of the key.

It depends what mode you want to imply. Whether it's a major or minor mode, it'll be a resoloution to either I or i respectively. I'm sure you know your Roman Numerals already though. Just wanted to be sure.
Why can't a modal progression be I - IV - V where you play as I Amaj7, with A ionian mode over it, as IV Dmaj7with D lydian and as V E7 with E mixolydian?

In other words what is fundamentally wrong with the above to be considered as a modal progression?

It contains a V-I movement. Any progression with this in (that also goes for V-i), immediately implies tonal music.
#21
Think I begin to understand. Tonal music is where the harmony makes the song and the melody is being applied to that, while modal music is where the melody -a certain mode- makes the song and you can apply a harmony to that.

-edit- I think i confused 'using modes' with modal music.
Last edited by deHufter at Mar 4, 2009,