#1
I really suck at soloing (no ****, so does most people in this forum). Taking the stand everyday in my Jazz Band really deteriorates my soul. If you heard me you'd probably think I was ok, but I always feel that it's crappy, like I could've done a lot better. And what I could've done better is something I can hear in my mind, but not something I can play.

So, okay! Let's practice soloing better. But the notion of stealing licks and copying other people puts me at bay from learning. Sure, I'll learn songs by ear, but the idea of copying other people... I know it's not gonna make me sound anything like them, but... I don't know.

Then it occurred to me, what if I copy myself? I know some licks in my mind that I'll be able to sing, and then transcribe to my guitar.

The question is: Would this help me better or would it be all the same?
If you play guitar, please don't waste your time in The Pit, and please instead educate yourself in the Musician Talk forum, where you can be missing out on valuable info.
Quote by DiminishedFifth
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#2
Quote by SilverDark
But the notion of stealing licks and copying other people puts me at bay from learning. Sure, I'll learn songs by ear, but the idea of copying other people... I know it's not gonna make me sound anything like them, but... I don't know.


That's your problem right there. Get it out of your head that learning "other peoples licks" is "stealing", and stop seeing it as a bad thing. It is not at all a bad thing, in fact it can be a very good thing and I think your attitude towards the idea is holding you back big time. Just look at it as music that you are learning to gain experience, and hopefully to enjoy. This is what is often referred to as "cutting your teeth". Look it up, realize that practically any great musician, including those that are "unique" and have their own style, spent some time cutting their teeth on music (that was written by somebody else). Give it a try sometime, and drop the silly attitude towards it.


Quote by SilverDark

Then it occurred to me, what if I copy myself? I know some licks in my mind that I'll be able to sing, and then transcribe to my guitar.

The question is: Would this help me better or would it be all the same?


I think it's a silly idea to be honest with you. I mean, wouldn't you want to learn from someone that doesn't "really suck at soloing"? Think about it.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 4, 2009,
#3
Quote by GuitarMunky
That's your problem right there. Get it out of your head that learning "other peoples licks" is "stealing", and stop seeing it as a bad thing. It is not at all a bad thing, in fact it can be a very good thing and I think your attitude towards the idea is holding you back big time. Just look at it as music that you are learning to gain experience, and hopefully to enjoy. This is what is often referred to as "cutting your teeth". Look it up, realize that practically any great musician, including those that are "unique" and have their own style, spent some time cutting their teeth on music (that was written by somebody else). Give it a try sometime, and drop the silly attitude towards it.
Mkay, I'll try it. A bunch of Jazz and Classical licks for me I'll steal!
Quote by GuitarMunky
I think it's a silly idea to be honest with you. I mean, wouldn't you want to learn from someone that doesn't "really suck at soloing"? Think about it.
It's that I can hear myself knowing what to play, but it's that I have no idea how to play it on my guitar. It did sound good on my end though...
If you play guitar, please don't waste your time in The Pit, and please instead educate yourself in the Musician Talk forum, where you can be missing out on valuable info.
Quote by DiminishedFifth
It's like you read my mind!

I got meself a self-approving sig. Kick. Ass.
#4
Quote by SilverDark
Mkay, I'll try it. A bunch of Jazz and Classical licks for me I'll steal!
It's that I can hear myself knowing what to play, but it's that I have no idea how to play it on my guitar. It did sound good on my end though...


I see. I was just quoting you. Still though, I think you have more to learn from someone else, than you do from yourself, at practically any level.

Don't just learn licks.... learn a whole solo, phrasing and all. (or an entire melody).

get into the music. feel it, enjoy it, absorb whatever you can from it.


btw, if you can really hear something in your head that you want to play, spend some time and work it out on the guitar. You probably can't do it during improv yet, but you may eventually if you put the time in 1st.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 4, 2009,
#5
Quote by SilverDark
I really suck at soloing (no ****, so does most people in this forum)

Umm...wow, ok?
I wouldn't go that far.
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#6
Quote by Sleaze Disease
Umm...wow, ok?
I wouldn't go that far.

Whoops, sorry, didn't mean... It was just frustration... shouldn't have typed it at all...
If you play guitar, please don't waste your time in The Pit, and please instead educate yourself in the Musician Talk forum, where you can be missing out on valuable info.
Quote by DiminishedFifth
It's like you read my mind!

I got meself a self-approving sig. Kick. Ass.
#7
Just apart from GM's point, being able to relate ideas to the guitar is a vital skill, and you can certainly develop it by singing and playing ideas. It's good for your singing too, if you're as rubbish as me.
#8
Quote by Freepower
Just apart from GM's point, being able to relate ideas to the guitar is a vital skill, and you can certainly develop it by singing and playing ideas. It's good for your singing too, if you're as rubbish as me.


Expanding on this, my old jazz teacher urged me to learn to sing all the licks before transcribing them, to internalize the sounds. It's a good method for really learning the sounds.
(Slightly outdated) Electronic and classical compositions by m'self: Check 'em out
#9
Quote by psychodelia
Expanding on this, my old jazz teacher urged me to learn to sing all the licks before transcribing them, to internalize the sounds. It's a good method for really learning the sounds.


+ 1 on the singing thing. Definitely very helpful.
shred is gaudy music
#10
Quote by psychodelia
Expanding on this, my old jazz teacher urged me to learn to sing all the licks before transcribing them, to internalize the sounds. It's a good method for really learning the sounds.
This is a great way to learn about music, but the one flaw I see is that guitar solos tend to be quite a bit faster than sung melodies. I don't know how useful it would be to try to sing 16th-note triplets at Q=130. For the slower licks, though, this is very effective.

One of the best moments in playing the guitar is when you can take that sound you hear in your head and play it. This is extremely difficult, though not impossible, and it's something you'll be able to do eventually. Chances are that you can think of more creative melodies, riffs, and solos than you can play while fooling around. I think this is true of everyone and it applies to me in many cases, though with some of the less complex licks or the common licks, my fingers just go to the frets when I want that sound (this is something like sequencing a minor pentatonic scale). With frequency, I'll get an idea in my head and spend a lot time figuring it out and writing it down.
#11
Aural vision.

I said this a bunch of times and I will say it again.

If you listen to all ur licks, you will link notes/licks/sounds with emotions/ideas.

try to be "busy" with music.

Play a note, and then another note, how does that sound/feel? If not right do another.

Over time, you will establish a Aural vision (For the lack of better word) where you hear a chord, and know what to play, regardless of speed, since most speed licks that are considered nice are based upon voice leading anyway.

At least 70% of my speedy stuff is based on voice leading or some sort of pulse where where the accented notes mostly imply or elaborate the harmony over the chords.


The more you use "strong" notes on the accents in the beat, I can assure you the lick will come out more melodic.

1 example is flight of the bumblebee, where it's all chromatic stuff, but the accented notes are I think are as good as always "strong notes". So there's still a quite strong melody going on.

I recommend the jazz concept to any musician, and be more aware of the notes you play. IT can do so much for ur soloing, and I bet every "accomplished shredder" has either got influence by jazz or fusion based artists or influenced by other artists who are influenced by Jazz artists.

Ofcourse voice leading happens in almost every genre in some way or another, but Jazz goes to the extreme of exploring music as far as melody go.

"melodic 'Good' shred" and jazz in approach share quite some similarities, only a different style,output and focus.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Mar 5, 2009,