#1
attention: terrible english.


First of all .. i m self taught ... i know how to play Ionian major and minor scales (W, W, H, W, W, W, H) and (W, H, W, W, H, W, W) .. i ve been using only this mode since i started play guitar . I play ska-punk staff so i never bother to learn anything else. If the key of my song is lets say Cm i ll play a melody/solo on C Ionian minor scale. i think i got this correct right?

1) What is the next level? What to learn .. Will it be useful to learn the rest of the modes/scales Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian ,Aeolian, Locrian .. i checked them out, its not hard to memorize them .. but i dont get it where to use them? i try to play a melody on them and it sounds wrong/weird to me .. Can u give me some examples of artists who uses other modes except the popular Ionian Major/Minor scale?

2) I got more confused with Chromatic scale .. whats that? i ve read a lesson here and it got me really confused .. it was just "chromatic" .. whats this, minor or major? where we use chromatic scale?

Major and Minor Pentatonic was cool i liked it and its very easy to use. The prob is that .. its like there is no originality with this scale, everything that i tried to compose it reminds me other songs .. i tried to come up with a riff or something and everything sounds like a rip off of classic rock songs. Its not like Ionian Major/Minor which has more originality and depth if u know what i mean .. i dont know if u understand what i m trying to say but nevermind.

thanks and sorry for my english.
#2
Ionion and Minor are two seperate things. Ionion mode is the same as the major scale. Aeolion mode is the same as the natural minor scale. The harmonic minor scale is also a cool scale to use.

Pentatonic scales are very widely used, but great for getting experience in writing solo's.

Chromatic scale is every single note, so it doesn't really have a tonality as such. It's used widely in jazz I believe.

The other modes are all good to learn, they all have their own qualities that shine through. Phrygian mode is popularly used by shredders such as Paul gilbert and Yngwie Malmsteen. Green Day use lydian mode in the simpsons theme tune :-)

The thing to do is learn the theory behind then, ie the notes and why they sound like they sound. Then use this theory to choose which chords you put behind them. You need to understand that modes are made by starting the major scale (ionion mode) on different notes. So:
C Ionion = C D E F G A B C
D Dorion = D E F G A B C D
E Phrygian = E F G A B C D E

etc. They're all made from C major (ionion), but starting on a different note. This causes different intervals, which create different sounds, different hamronies, different clashes, different melodies, and more interesting music. It's just a case of learning how to apply them to your music effectively.
Quote by uvq
yeah fire him secretly... thats what im doing except im firing myself and secretly joining someone elses band

Quote by Jekkyl
If you get a virus by looking at porn, is it considered a sexually-transmitted disease?

Quote by DiveRightIn63
thanks for the compliment man!
#3
Ionian is a major scale. In fact most just refer to it as the Major scale. If you know the natural minor scale then you already know Aeolian. If you are playing in C minor use the C minor scale over it. It will be helpful to learn the other modes as they will help you to play across the fretboard in the same key. Basically C major (ionian) has the same notes as D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian, A natural minor (Aeolian) and B Locrian. It's the intervals which are important and give the separate scales their sound. Do you know about intervals? If not, I would suggest that this is your next step. Check out 'The Crusade' columns on this website.
#4
Steve Vai admits to abusing the Lydian scale (1, 2, 3, #4, 5, 6, 7)

I like using minor modes like Dorian (1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7), Phrygian (1, b2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7), Aeolian (1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7).

My fave is the Half Diminished Locrian Scale. (1, b2, b3, 4, b5, b6, b7)

Santana admits to using the Dorian on many of his melodies.

Yngwie Malmsteen uses the Harmonic Minor on his solos (1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, Nat 7,)

My song "7 string instrumental" is in locrian.
#5
Since you play ska/punk you should really consider learning the pentatonic (major but especially minor) scale.

You also said " The prob is that .. its like there is no originality with this scale"
Ionian and Aelion scales both have 8 notes. Just like writers can write an infinite amount of word combinations with just 26 letters, you also can write an infinte amount of note combinations. So don't blame the scales that they don't sound original. I recommend that when you compose a song, you should first come up with a melody line in your head and than work it out on the guitar. This should stimulate your creativity.

Also, you shouldn't bother too much about your songs sounding like other songs. For every song there is a song that sounds alike.
I sold my soul for Rock 'n' Roll

Quote by CSguitarvocal
you've just proven that you're the most ignorant fuck on this website...

Thank you
Quote by darknessfan
Whenever I sit down to play guitar, I always need to pee in like 3 minutes. Is this weird?

Owned
#6
Quote by M.B.MetalTabber
Ionion and Minor are two seperate things. Ionion mode is the same as the major scale. Aeolion mode is the same as the natural minor scale. The harmonic minor scale is also a cool scale to use.

Pentatonic scales are very widely used, but great for getting experience in writing solo's.

Chromatic scale is every single note, so it doesn't really have a tonality as such. It's used widely in jazz I believe.

The other modes are all good to learn, they all have their own qualities that shine through. Phrygian mode is popularly used by shredders such as Paul gilbert and Yngwie Malmsteen. Green Day use lydian mode in the simpsons theme tune :-)

The thing to do is learn the theory behind then, ie the notes and why they sound like they sound. Then use this theory to choose which chords you put behind them. You need to understand that modes are made by starting the major scale (ionion mode) on different notes. So:
C Ionion = C D E F G A B C
D Dorion = D E F G A B C D
E Phrygian = E F G A B C D E

etc. They're all made from C major (ionion), but starting on a different note. This causes different intervals, which create different sounds, different hamronies, different clashes, different melodies, and more interesting music. It's just a case of learning how to apply them to your music effectively.



okay wait cause i really got confused now .. hehe!

Sooo for so long i was using Ionian (major scale) and Aeolian (minor scale) right?

Chromatic lets forget it for now cz i dont think i will ever play jazz in my life hehe

I didnt get the last thing you said .. So you are saying D Dorion is the Cmajor scale ?? to me its like u played Dmajor scale up there .. lets take an example cz my english really sucks.. lets say the Key of the Song is Cmaj .. and i want to play a melody/solo using Dorion mode .. i ll start soloing on Dmaj scale and that would be correct?
Last edited by goldfinger69 at Mar 6, 2009,
#7
D dorian and C major contain the same notes, but they aren't the same. D Dorian is those collected notes but revolving the scale around a D, which gives it a completly different sound
#8
damn i got more confused after this post ...

Ionian (major) the one i know ...
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Aeolian (minor) and this one i know ...
Locrian

okay so lets make this clear .. Dorian and Phrygian is like Ionion with the only diference is starting the scale on different note. D for Dorian and E for Phrygian. So that makes them MAJOR .. is there such thing as Minor Dorian and Minor Phrygian??

What about Mixolydian and Locrian? are these Minor? i mean i ll use them when the key of my song is for example Cm ??

sorryy for my lame questions but i really got confused. . . can you post me a link with a good lesson about modes/scales???
#9
Quote by goldfinger69
damn i got more confused after this post ...

Ionian (major) the one i know ...
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Aeolian (minor) and this one i know ...
Locrian

okay so lets make this clear .. Dorian and Phrygian is like Ionion with the only diference is starting the scale on different note. D for Dorian and E for Phrygian. So that makes them MAJOR .. is there such thing as Minor Dorian and Minor Phrygian??

What about Mixolydian and Locrian? are these Minor? i mean i ll use them when the key of my song is for example Cm ??

sorryy for my lame questions but i really got confused. . . can you post me a link with a good lesson about modes/scales???


Dorian and Phrygian are minor. Sharing the same notes as C major is as far as the relation goes, they are not major. If your song is in Cm then use the minor scale.
#10
Delete this thread and read the mode sticky. This thread is full of misinformation, and chances are you lack the requisite knowledge to understand modes.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#11
Quote by blueriver
Dorian and Phrygian are minor. Sharing the same notes as C major is as far as the relation goes, they are not major. If your song is in Cm then use the minor scale.



thats what i dont get ... yeah lets say my song is on Cm .. i can use whenever Minor Mode i want Phrygian Dorian or Aeolian ??? is that simple ??
#12
Quote by goldfinger69
thats what i dont get ... yeah lets say my song is on Cm .. i can use whenever Minor Mode i want Phrygian Dorian or Aeolian ??? is that simple ??


No. Read the mode sticky.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#14
Quote by Archeo Avis
No. Read the mode sticky.


just found it .. i hope this will clear somethings thanks!
#15
okay i ve read a little bit and it looks like Chinese to me ... and u know i think its not even worthy to bother and learn modes .etc .. every ska-punk song is written on major or minor scale .. i think i m just wasting my time for something that i will never use ... i already know how to write a normal chord progression, find the key and play a melody/solo on it and it sounds correct.
#16
Quote by goldfinger69
okay i ve read a little bit and it looks like Chinese to me ... and u know i think its not even worthy to bother and learn modes .etc .. every ska-punk song is written on major or minor scale .. i think i m just wasting my time for something that i will never use ... i already know how to write a normal chord progression, find the key and play a melody/solo on it and it sounds correct.


Modes are a simple concept provided you have the requisite knowledge. If you don't understand the sticky, all it means is that you should read through the links included at the bottom and make sure you understand all of the concepts that they explain. Once you do, you'll have no problem with modes.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#17
i ve read this https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=997405

and pls tell me if i got it right ...

it says that "In music you have 3 Major modes (Ionian, Lydian and Mixolydian), 3 minor modes (Dorian, Phrygian and Aeolian), and the outsider, Locrian."

lets say i ve learned how to play them .. i mean the steps of each one like Ionian is (W, W, H, W, W, W, H) and Aeolian is (W, H, W, W, H, W, W) i will learn and the rest of them .. Do i know the modes this way??????????????????? come on people .. dont make things complicated .. speak to me with simple english .. thanks ..
#20
Quote by goldfinger69
i found that website .. it has every mode there ... i think thats all i needed ..

http://www.ocmusic.com/Modes.htm

what do u think?

It's utterly useless as far as learning modes goes - all it does is show you one place where you can play them.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#21
Quote by steven seagull
It's utterly useless as far as learning modes goes - all it does is show you one place where you can play them.


dude i know the notes on fretboard that means i can play it wherever i want to .. isnt this enough? what else do i need to know ... ????
#22
Quote by goldfinger69
dude i know the notes on fretboard that means i can play it wherever i want to .. isnt this enough? what else do i need to know ... ????


How they're used.
Read the sticky.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#23
Quote by goldfinger69
dude i know the notes on fretboard that means i can play it wherever i want to .. isnt this enough? what else do i need to know ... ????

No it's not anything.

Modes are nothing to do with the pattern you play or "where you start the scale from". Modes are all about the way the notes of a scale function differently in certain contexts - that's what you need to study if you want to understand modes.

If you just learn a load of patterns all you're doing is teaching yourself the major scale over and over again.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#24
finally i got it .. i ll read the sticky thread about music theory from the begging and i m sorry for being annoying.