#1
Alright folks, I've got origins in jazz piano/composition/theory, so I've got a lot of those ideas going for me, and when I picked up guitar, the first thing I did was apply all of those concepts to the fretboard. Now it all sounds just fine, I've got this sort of Django thing going on right now, but I really just want to learn how to play some proper rock lead. What I'm really looking for is something more... melodic, maybe? Bluesy, but not blues, with a bunch of soul and tight phrasing. Think Dave Gilmour, or George Harrison. Tasteful guitar work, and none of this shredding/technical stuff (Nothing against technique, I love technique, I just don't dig wanking).

I'm not interested in rhythm(chords), really at all, and this isn't just one of those "Whut scales to play" threads. I think I might be in need of a legitimate paradigm shift. Can anybody help me out here? I know I'm being vague, but it's sort of a big subject I think I'm looking into here.
#2
To be honest, all you really need to know is the minor pentatonic scale. That, over almost any rock song is the rock lead sound.
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#3
maybe start with blues, and work your way to more of a straight rock guitar, or more melodic rock.

I'd also recommend looking up some opeth solos. They are a metal band, but coming from a jazz background you would appreciate the guitar solos.
#4
i would say immerse yourself lsten to gnr randy rhoads, srv whatever your trying to capture and just use the proper scales, in all these cases the minor pentatonic, and maybe the natural minor, possibly harmonic minor but that depends
#5
Quote by KenjiBeast
Alright folks, I've got origins in jazz piano/composition/theory, so I've got a lot of those ideas going for me, and when I picked up guitar, the first thing I did was apply all of those concepts to the fretboard. Now it all sounds just fine, I've got this sort of Django thing going on right now, but I really just want to learn how to play some proper rock lead. What I'm really looking for is something more... melodic, maybe? Bluesy, but not blues, with a bunch of soul and tight phrasing. Think Dave Gilmour, or George Harrison. Tasteful guitar work, and none of this shredding/technical stuff (Nothing against technique, I love technique, I just don't dig wanking).

I'm not interested in rhythm(chords), really at all, and this isn't just one of those "Whut scales to play" threads. I think I might be in need of a legitimate paradigm shift. Can anybody help me out here? I know I'm being vague, but it's sort of a big subject I think I'm looking into here.


Learn some of your favorite rock leads.
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#6
try to learn the licks&solos you like. it's possible to do it just by hearing, but if you learn those licks, they will stay in your muscle memory and you will apply them more often to your playing and improvising.

also, learn the basic pentatonic box. position. most solos are there, you know, the:
12-15
12-15
12-14
12-14
12-14
12-15
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Last edited by ldnovelo at Mar 12, 2009,
#7
coming from a jazz background i know you must have a huge amount of knowledge about music ( wish i did lol ) and i reckon you might need to change how you look at things. obviously i dont know you let alone know how you play, but i see with jazz that every note has to be played right, im not really getting across what i really want to say but thats kind of part of it. basically lol, i think maybe you just need to get messy
#8
seeing as jazz came from blues and rock is a derivative or blues, id say it shouldnt be too hard of a transition. all there really is to it is pentatonic scales, mixolydian modes, and interesting bends.
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#9
Quote by ldnovelo
try to learn the licks&solos you like. it's possible to do it just by hearing, but if you learn those licks, they will stay in your muscle memory and you will apply them more often to your playing and improvising.

also, learn the basic pentatonic box. position. most solos are there, you know, the:
12-15
12-14
12-14
12-14
12-15
12-15

you put the box backwards...
unless you were trying for a different position, in which case you messed up the B string.
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etc.




Quote by freedoms_stain
I can't imagine anything worse than shagging to Mark Knopfler.

Maybe shagging Mark Knopfler, but that's about it.
#10
Quote by TK1
you put the box backwards...
unless you were trying for a different position, in which case you messed up the B string.

yeah dude, i tabbed it wrong (upside down), my mistake. I tabbed it like if it was a miror (top line is 6th string), so if you read it that way, the position is right.

I already edited the post. tnx for correcting.
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#11
Quote by ldnovelo
try to learn the licks&solos you like. it's possible to do it just by hearing, but if you learn those licks, they will stay in your muscle memory and you will apply them more often to your playing and improvising.

also, learn the basic pentatonic box. position. most solos are there, you know, the:
E12-15
A12-15
D12-14
G12-14
B12-14
e12-15

Don't forget, that's a movable pattern, but, considering that he's a jazz guitarist, he probably already knows that.

Also, whoever said to immerse yourself is very right. The longer I listen to Stratovarius, Iron Maiden, Helloween, and the like, the more I sound like those bands.

Also, I fixed his pent. box.
Last edited by The.new.guy at Mar 12, 2009,
#12
Personally if you want to play like Harrison or Gilmour I would just say work on ear training/applying it to guitar. Sure, start with pentatonic boxes or something as a framework but just train your ear, figure out which notes you want to play (listen and learn solos/songs), and then learn how to execute them on the guitar. Really learn the dynamics of picking, bending, sliding, maybe some artificial harmonics, muting. Those guys have some great dynamics, learning scales will not really get you very close to the mentioned guitarists. I don't think Harrison ever gets enough credit. Also try to play slow, try to resolve a bit more 'truly' than in jazz. Pentatonic playing like that is lots of consonance but then great stress and care when the less common 'out' note(s) is played
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#13
Spend as much time as possible trying to make the kind of music you want to make.
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#14
You should learn Comfortably numb if you don't already know it. It is quite easy and will help you a lot with feel and bends etc.
#15
Just learn songs. It's that simple. I think you have it easier than rock players trying to learn jazz.
#17
Go for bends with plenty of vibrato. Take a look at techniques used by Blues and Rock guitar players [Slash / BB King / Gary Moore / Jimmy Page] perhaps learn a few solo's to get to grips with the whole idea. As i get the impression Jazz kind of teaches you quite the opposite!
#18
You seem to have the notion a 'proper lead' exists (or perhaps I misunderstand what you mean by proper, I'm just a dumb American). Personally, I think exploring that concept is a waste of time, i.e. searching for the correct notes. Tasteful guitar work is accomplished in any genre simply by playing your best accompanyment to the underlying song structure. I doubt great guitarists, many of those mentioned above, did not acheve their status by finding the proper notes. Rather, they became great by playing what sounded beautiful to their own ears.

Good luck in your endeavor.
#19
^ echoing the above, all I have to contribute is that if you're interested in playing a genre you're not familiar with, listen and imitate.

really there's nothing more to it.
#20
David Gilmour's solos are basically a combination of three things: Minor pentatonic scale, graceful bends, and phrasing. Thats really all it comes down to.
#21
A good technique is bending and vibrato-a must for rock guitarists. This is what makes your notes sing.
So, I would listen to Stevie Ray Vaughan for this technique, although a blues player.
Also, Carlos Santana. These players might be the bridge between jazz and rock for you.