#1
Nah, just joking.

I was wondering how important you think rhyming is in a song. I think it adds structure but can be too predictable and can ruin a song, but some rhyming can make a song beautiful.
Your thoughts?

edit: Sorry, the title was really just to get your attention, I wasn't asking for an actual rhyme for orange :P thanks for the tips anyway.


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Last edited by hugh20 at Mar 20, 2009,
#2
i like rhyming, but not in a line pattern like a sonnet. kinda like the way slipknot did on Iowa. that really adds flavor, and isnt too predictable
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#5
Door hinge.

Sometimes rhyming is important. I think it depends on the tempo of the song.
#6
Constant 'AABB' gets a bit irratating, I like a nice 'ABAB' and if you throw in a few lines that don't follow the structure I think it really spices it up. Sometimes when no rhymes are used it just sounds like the vocalist is droning on because there is (as you said) less structure.
#8
Haliborange rhymes with Orange, it's a vitamin A, C and D supplement.
As for the actual question, I find that sometimes rhyming can push you into a too consistent rhythm. I prefer it when, for example, the verses do not rhyme but the the chorus does. Something like that gives the rhyming part a lot more power, melody and catchiness in my opinion.
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#9
Orange is one of those words that famously has nothing perfectly to rhyme with it. The other one is silver. However, the Oxford Rhyming Dictionary does show both these words as having half-rhymes (such as lozenge with orange and salver with silver).

just felt like telling you anyways.
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#10
Quote by hugh20
Nah, just joking.

I was wondering how important you think rhyming is in a song. I think it adds structure but can be too predictable and can ruin a song, but some rhyming can make a song beautiful.
Your thoughts?


secondary to ALL emotion/ideas/imagery.

rhyming has never been and never will be important to me. it doesn't fit with my streamy style and i do not plan to make it fit any time soon.
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#11
"Never sacrifice meaning for rhyme."
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#13
I hate people that just naysay it.

If you want to be good at writing without rhyming, you need to be good at rhyming first IMO. The exact same thing goes for meter, for cliche images, and for a million other elements of writing.

Most of what people label "free verse" is absolute garbage, particularly in songwriting because most writers of the style are noobs that never learned how the structural elements of a poem or song actually contribute to its meaning. If they knew how to rhyme properly in the first place, they'd be much better off.

If you understand the way rhyme is supposed to work as a mnemonic cue, as a way of drawing attention to specific images, words, and syllabals, as a non-syntactic way of ending a phrase or section of thought, as a highlighter than brings extra emphasis to things like meter, cadence, syntax, etc. then you can finally move past rhyme and achieve these effects (or purposfully defy them) with skill. Most of the people that think rhyming restricts writing or that a work containing rhyme must be less authentic are not privy to these things and as a result are terrible writers.


And this restriction is true and false-- a rhyme scheme forces you to think in a certain way and with a certain type of language--that's a restriction., but that restriction still contains a set on infinite possibilities. Not to mention the fact that a restrcition on your writing 9 times out of 10 actually makes your writing much better--it leads to more cohesive (and there for deeper) senses of voice, image, theme, etc. It forces people to expand their vocabularies and explore themes, ideas, and phrasings that don't come naturally to them.

Every person who takes up poetry or songwriting should spend a lot of time working with set patterns of meter and rhyme--it's just so good for you--even if you do away with those set patterns once you mature as a writer.

edit*
and sense when did rhyme only mean "hard rhyme"? If you spend anytime rhyming at all, you quickly develop an ability to move past nursery rhyme style rhymes.
Last edited by dullsilver_mike at Mar 17, 2009,
#14
Orange - pwnage
l0l haha just kidding mate...
Well, I think rhyming can really give power to a song, like in Metallica's Welcome Home (Sanitarium)... Everything rhymes and the meaning is perfection incarnate...

Although I do enjoy Opeth's style of absolutely no rhyming at all with the death vocals...
#15
i don't really like rhyming in a song, because it's just WAY too predictable

and by the way quorange rhymes with orange
#17
Rhyming doesn't matter at all and only restricts you imo. But if you want to right a catchy melody or something then rhyme will make it catchier (sometimes).
#18
Quote by dullsilver_mike
I hate people that just naysay it.

If you want to be good at writing without rhyming, you need to be good at rhyming first IMO. The exact same thing goes for meter, for cliche images, and for a million other elements of writing.

Most of what people label "free verse" is absolute garbage, particularly in songwriting because most writers of the style are noobs that never learned how the structural elements of a poem or song actually contribute to its meaning. If they knew how to rhyme properly in the first place, they'd be much better off.

If you understand the way rhyme is supposed to work as a mnemonic cue, as a way of drawing attention to specific images, words, and syllabals, as a non-syntactic way of ending a phrase or section of thought, as a highlighter than brings extra emphasis to things like meter, cadence, syntax, etc. then you can finally move past rhyme and achieve these effects (or purposfully defy them) with skill. Most of the people that think rhyming restricts writing or that a work containing rhyme must be less authentic are not privy to these things and as a result are terrible writers.


And this restriction is true and false-- a rhyme scheme forces you to think in a certain way and with a certain type of language--that's a restriction., but that restriction still contains a set on infinite possibilities. Not to mention the fact that a restrcition on your writing 9 times out of 10 actually makes your writing much better--it leads to more cohesive (and there for deeper) senses of voice, image, theme, etc. It forces people to expand their vocabularies and explore themes, ideas, and phrasings that don't come naturally to them.

Every person who takes up poetry or songwriting should spend a lot of time working with set patterns of meter and rhyme--it's just so good for you--even if you do away with those set patterns once you mature as a writer.

edit*
and sense when did rhyme only mean "hard rhyme"? If you spend anytime rhyming at all, you quickly develop an ability to move past nursery rhyme style rhymes.


#20
Raining Blood - Slayer doesnt Rhyme

But I Hate that song so it dont matter :]

All Songs I write Rhyme

It Just Feels asthough it should, It'd sound weird if it didnt
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#21
Syringe

I think rhyming only works if the song makes sense. If I'm writing songs, and thinking of rhymes, I would scrap all the ones I thought I couldn't connect with and 'feel'
#24
I think rhyming works for some bands, but some of them favour lyrics that flow naturally to lyrics that rhyme, such as Opeth.

'When' by Opeth:


Red sun rising somewhere through the dense fog.
The portrait of the jaded dawn who had seen it all before.

This day wept on my shoulders.
Still the same as yesterday.
This path seems endless, body is numb.
The soul has lost its flame.
Walking in familiar traces to find my way back home.

So there I was.
Within the sobriety of the immortals.
A semblance of supernatural winds passing through.
The garden sighs, flowers die.

The gate was closed that day, but I was bound to carry on.
She could not see me through the windows.
In dismay, strangest twist upon her lips.
Graven face, she said my name.

Once inside I heard whispers in the parlour.
The gilded faces grin, aware of my final demise.

And I cried, I knew she had lied.
Her obsession had died, it had died.

When can I take you from this place?
When is the word but a sigh?
When is death our lone beholder?
When do we walk the final steps?
When can we scream instead of whisper?

When is the new beginning,
the end of this sad MADRIGAL.


The lyrics have a couple of rhyming parts, but listening to the song, it sounds so much better without it.
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#25
Contrived rhyming ruins too many good songs.
For an alternative idea, look at the lyrics to 1 Hand in My Pocket (Alanis Morisette?) and see how the hook lines are attached to the wrong verses. V clever.
Orange? Well, Lozenge is close but I defy anyone to use it outside an ad for cough meds.
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#26
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#27
Quote by Hops44
"Never sacrifice meaning for rhyme."


I feel exactly the opposite.

writing non rhyming lyrics is too commonly used as an excuse either for being too lazy or not having the skill to make rhymes. I'm not saying my lyrics allways rhyme perfectly, or are poetic genious or anything. but I think the words should support the rhythm and the melody of a song, not undermine it, this is more important than what the lyrics actually mean as written word.
#28
Quote by jimRH7
this is more important than what the lyrics actually mean as written word.

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#29
Quote by dullsilver_mike
I hate people that just naysay it.

If you want to be good at writing without rhyming, you need to be good at rhyming first IMO. The exact same thing goes for meter, for cliche images, and for a million other elements of writing.

Most of what people label "free verse" is absolute garbage, particularly in songwriting because most writers of the style are noobs that never learned how the structural elements of a poem or song actually contribute to its meaning. If they knew how to rhyme properly in the first place, they'd be much better off.

If you understand the way rhyme is supposed to work as a mnemonic cue, as a way of drawing attention to specific images, words, and syllabals, as a non-syntactic way of ending a phrase or section of thought, as a highlighter than brings extra emphasis to things like meter, cadence, syntax, etc. then you can finally move past rhyme and achieve these effects (or purposfully defy them) with skill. Most of the people that think rhyming restricts writing or that a work containing rhyme must be less authentic are not privy to these things and as a result are terrible writers.


And this restriction is true and false-- a rhyme scheme forces you to think in a certain way and with a certain type of language--that's a restriction., but that restriction still contains a set on infinite possibilities. Not to mention the fact that a restrcition on your writing 9 times out of 10 actually makes your writing much better--it leads to more cohesive (and there for deeper) senses of voice, image, theme, etc. It forces people to expand their vocabularies and explore themes, ideas, and phrasings that don't come naturally to them.

Every person who takes up poetry or songwriting should spend a lot of time working with set patterns of meter and rhyme--it's just so good for you--even if you do away with those set patterns once you mature as a writer.

edit*
and sense when did rhyme only mean "hard rhyme"? If you spend anytime rhyming at all, you quickly develop an ability to move past nursery rhyme style rhymes.



I concur.