#1
I'm classically trained and I know most of my music theory. My question is what rules are broken to create rock? 4 ex. you classically don't move parallel fifths because it supposedly sounds like crap. But we do it 2day and we have punk rock. Another one is where you don't play two notes that are a half-step away from each other. We do that today and you get the droning sound in metal................what else?
#3
rules? breaking rules? what rules?

music is a feeling, rules are not involved. do whatever you feel like, let your fingers bleed the blood of the soul and just do whatever takes your breath away
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#4
None. There are no rules to break. I'm not sure you understand what music theory is.
What you're referring to is convention, which is entirely different. The answer is, obviously, listen to rock music and find out.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Mar 15, 2009,
#5
I think the parallel fifths "rule" was created with choral music in mind. I've never heard of anything saying not to play two notes that are a halfstep apart at the same time.
#6
Theory is guidelines- not rules
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#7
You'd be surprised how they teach music in college..............................I hate the way they do it by the way.
#8
When it comes to theory the "rules" are just there as helpful guidelines, you follow them strictly only if you don't have the confidence to step out of them and experiment, which you should do. The fifths rule makes sense from a scale and key perspective because if you make a chord shift and just play straight fifths off it, you're technically not playing the correct notes in that scale (not diatonically anyway), but it's just an idea of chords being playing with the root being the relative note in the scale, nothing else.
#9
Quote by killjoy2490
You'd be surprised how they teach music in college..............................I hate the way they do it by the way.


It's taught pretty well in UL
1 2

Little solace comes
to those who grieve
as thoughts keep drifting
as walls keep shifting
and this great blue world of ours
seems a House of Leaves

My Rig
Quote by Will Swanson
HeavyReverb = Hero of The Pit 2010.
Quote by I-Shot-Jr
You sir are my absolute hero.
#10
Quote by killjoy2490
You'd be surprised how they teach music in college..............................I hate the way they do it by the way.


The teach it the way they do because students need to learn in a structured environment.

The fifths rule makes sense from a scale and key perspective because if you make a chord shift and just play straight fifths off it, you're technically not playing the correct notes in that scale (not diatonically anyway), but it's just an idea of chords being playing with the root being the relative note in the scale, nothing else.


Parallel fifths are generally avoided in voice leading because they compromise the individuality of the voices and, being an "empty shell" of a chord, contribute little, if anything, to the harmony.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Mar 15, 2009,
#11
Quote by GangsterLi
rules? breaking rules? what rules?

music is a feeling, rules are not involved. do whatever you feel like, let your fingers bleed the blood of the soul and just do whatever takes your breath away
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#12
What you're saying makes sense. I see what you mean. With Radiohead's Creep even, that song shouldn't 'theoretically' exist kuz it switches from maj. to min. So I guess I just need to go out there and do some 'rule' breaking. thx.
#13
Quote by killjoy2490
What you're saying makes sense. I see what you mean. With Radiohead's Creep even, that song shouldn't 'theoretically' exist kuz it switches from maj. to min. So I guess I just need to go out there and do some 'rule' breaking. thx.
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Because e-cred on a sub-par 4Chan knockoff forum is what everyone strives to achieve.
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We assume - so we're played
We confide - so we're deceived
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#14
Quote by Archeo Avis
None. There are no rules to break. I'm not sure you understand what music theory is.
What you're referring to is convention, which is entirely different. The answer is, obviously, listen to rock music and find out.


You've never taken college level music theory have you?
#15
Quote by Axe720
You've never taken college level music theory have you?


Not only have I taken it, I have on my doorstep the University's collection of 100,000+ texts related to the subject. Music theory is taught the way it is because students need to learn in a structured environment.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#16
No he's right, there are definitely rules that you are suppose to adhere to, generally when pertaining to classical music. Jazz breaks pretty much all those rules, and a lot of rock musicians aren't even aware of what these rules are. Honestly, unless you are composing a classical piece, I say fuck classical theory rules and do what sounds good to you.
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#17
No he's right, there are definitely rules that you are suppose to adhere to, generally when pertaining to classical music. Jazz breaks pretty much all those rules, and a lot of rock musicians aren't even aware of what these rules are. Honestly, unless you are composing a classical piece, I say fuck classical theory rules and do what sounds good to you.

Classical music is defined by its conventions, not theoretical rules. The same is true of Jazz, which actually borrows quite heavily from harmonic principles in use during the classical period.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#18
conventions, rules, they're different but I think that everybody here has the same thing in mind.
#19
BTW, Creep can be explained easily with common theory. It uses G, B, C, Cm. The notes of which are, respectively, G B D, B F# D#, C E G and C D# G. Looks like the G major scale (G A B C D E F#) but with a D# in it (G A B C D D# E F#). Oh gee, that D# is a tritone above G, so this is the blues scale.

Edit: Wait.. that's not a tritone. Nevermind. I will preserve this posts so you can all laugh at my stupidity.
Last edited by Eastwinn at Mar 15, 2009,
#20
^^

I think u misinterpreted what ur college taught you, or they are stupid.

Did you teacher say, that If you don't follow the conventions that you are " zomg! breaking the rules"?

They probably do pay attetion to it, just so you will remember it better for future reference, but using them as rules is bollocks.

Every modern composer or musician (that made impact, or is actually working in the music world) would laugh in your face if you told them that their composition is not allowed to have parallel 5ths or half step apart harmonies.

No half step means no Jaws tune ever made, lmao, and I'm pretty sure John Williams is respected quite some in the music world.


..lol

No classical composer or person would come out of his grave and curse you for eternity if you decide that it makes ur composition nicer if you "break" such a rule.

If that stuff wouldn't happen, then music most likely won't evolve.

It's exactly breaking rules what made almost all genre's. Although saying going "out of bounds" would be a better term.

Jazz for instance, uses 7th chord substitutions, which is essentially breaking "The rule" of diatonic.

And there are countless examples of it.

If you break rules and it sounds good, is what makes you innovative (well not perse, cause there are other factors), but there's a big chance it could.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Mar 15, 2009,
#21
Quote by killjoy2490
What you're saying makes sense. I see what you mean. With Radiohead's Creep even, that song shouldn't 'theoretically' exist kuz it switches from maj. to min. So I guess I just need to go out there and do some 'rule' breaking. thx.

are you a troll
#23
Key changes are "theoretically' correct!!

in theory a key change means to change keys... i dont see any problem there.
Its actually quite commen in a lot of the genres of the classical period.

Anyway.. theory isn't really rules..
If you want to compose a something to sound like 17th centry counterpoint then your gonna want to follow the "rules"

lets say some band makes all there songs in the key of Em.. using E phyrigian a lot..
well to sound like them and to compose like them your gonna want to use the key of Em w/ some notes from the E phyrigian scale

no one says parallel 5th are wrong.. i do believe Beethoven used them quite often(but dont quote me on that cuz i'm not really sure)
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#24
it's seems like in every thread where someone is talking about "breaking the rules" parallel 5ths gets brought up, I kinda have a halfass idea what that is, but could someone explain it properly to me?
#25
hahahahahaha. Im sorry im not laughing at the topic starter, I am just laughing that hes looking for answers here.
#26
parallel fifths is when you have a 1 and a 5 chord that goes to another 1 and a 5 chord. So let's sat that the c scale is C D E F G A B C. Lets say you use a power chord with a C. Power chords omit the 3rd so C would normally be C E G but in power chord form it would be C and G only then you go to another power chord, lets say D maj., it would be D and A. So C and G to D and A is an example of parallel 5ths. It's one power chord to another. Oh wait PUNK ROCK uses a lot of power chords..............