Page 1 of 3
#1
"There is no such thing as a soul, and there is no such thing as free will. every decision or thought that mankind has ever made or had is nothing more than a process of chemical reactions in our brains that were caused by chance and previous reactions. If one were to know every physical law and every way the human body reacted to outside impressions, one would be able to perfectly predict the outcome of the human race."

to me, this is a very depressing thought, that our entire being is nothing but a bunch of chemicals, there is no such thing as a "self" or a "conciousness", but everything we think is what any other person with our exact DNA and experiences would think in the same situation, thus, there is no such thing as an "I", because it is not unique to ourself.

any objections?
#2
I read somewhere that souls were proven to exist. I'll google it.
DEAD. AIR. SPACE.

Fender American Strat/Tele->Vox V847 Wah->EH LPB-1->BK Butler Tube Driver->Big Muff Pi->MXR Carbon Copy->EH Small Clone->Vox AC30/Orange Tiny Terror/Blues Deluxe RI
#3
NO SUCH THING as the SOUL ffs.
Such bull****
Yes, we are a bunch of cells, and everything that ever happens in life is a series of physical, biological and chemical processes inside us.
Conciousness, I'm not sure about, but I ****ing hate anyone who thinks we have thoughts because we have a soul.
#4
****, that's depressing.
But the fact that personality and looks-wise we are all quite different (but theoretically another person could be similar to us?) proof that we are indeed unique?
"F*ck the guitar solos!!" - Olli Vänskä

Quote by Capt_Clarkson
I dont know whats worse, you going out with a peadophile, or the fact you went to see Dragonforce
Err... DragonForce?

Happily married to SuperKoolKid
#5
Quote by djszkoda
I read somewhere that souls were proven to exist. I'll google it.

Good luck.

The only problem I see with that is the fact that it mentions 'chance'.

What's so wrong with this Corey?

EDIT: I think the main problem here is your ideas on it. I'd recommend checking out some Davidson. I'll go look for you...
Last edited by Craigo at Mar 17, 2009,
#7
It isnt really a depressing thought, at the end of the day we are able to live lives, have emotions, enjoy ourselves, feel everything as if we had a soul, so whats the difference really?
Quote by Shred Head
You have an atrocious sense of humour!

Quote by StrayCatBlues
You win 100 hilarity points.

Spend them wisely.


Quote by GrisKy
you're a funny, funny man, chimp in a tux... funny indeed.
#9
Quote by abs_n91
NO SUCH THING as the SOUL ffs.
Such bull****
Yes, we are a bunch of cells, and everything that ever happens in life is a series of physical, biological and chemical processes inside us.
Conciousness, I'm not sure about, but I ****ing hate anyone who thinks we have thoughts because we have a soul.



it's not about the "religious" aspect of a soul, i.e. something that lives on after we are dead, but rather our individuality and "ego".
#10
Quote by abs_n91
I'm not sure about


Thinking that other peoples views on such a subjective idea are shitty whilst not knowing your own view is dumb.
#11
Sartre - We are free because we have the ability to create and feel nothinness. Since we can create negations, we are free to choose to live however we want. Why is this proof? Because there is nothing stopping you from making any given decision except yourself.

We are free. However, I don't think there's such thing as a soul.
#13
Quote by Craigo
Good luck.

The only problem I see with that is the fact that it mentions 'chance'.

What's so wrong with this Corey?



I... don't know I guess the fact that we aren't really in control of our actions, that everything we do or think is just the result of a previous action.

tbh, it's something me and a friend of mine thought of when we were on drugs last weekend, because for some reason we always think about these things when on drugs, but even when I'm sober I can't find an argument against it.
#14
Quote by Inimical
Sartre - We are free because we have the ability to create and feel nothinness. Since we can create negations, we are free to choose to live however we want. Why is this proof? Because there is nothing stopping you from making any given decision except yourself.

We are free. However, I don't think there's such thing as a soul.



this is exactly what made me and my friend think about this in the first place.
#17
I came to this conclusion a looong time ago. I've always just kinda viewed us as really smart computers.
I'm running Human '91.
#18
Put some Marvin Gaye on the record player and then try to tell me that he ain't got no soul!
#19
Philosophy thread.
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, your eyes will get sore after a while."
#20
It tries and almost makes it, but that's not in sync with evolution man. Each organism has to react differently to stimuli or else there is no evolution. This goes with the brain because we have had to think different things to put us in separate situations from our ancestors. Hope that makes sense. Richard Dawkins does a better job of explaining it than I can.
the lesser known of the 4
#21
Quote by JamesDouglas
Philosophy thread.



really? I'm looking for a more scientific approach than a philosophical one.
#22
I saw a program about Darwin recently in which Richard Dawkins said somwething along the lines of 'We have a soul, but it's made out of nurons and connections in our brains and they end when we die.'

I'm inclined to agree with this, but I don't find it in the least depressing, it just encourages me to live the most worthwhile life I can, while I can.
#23
Quote by Inimical
Sartre - We are free because we have the ability to create and feel nothinness. Since we can create negations, we are free to choose to live however we want. Why is this proof? Because there is nothing stopping you from making any given decision except yourself.

We are free. However, I don't think there's such thing as a soul.

Existentialism has a habit of being arrogant. We're not THAT free.

The whole projecting yourself into the future thing is all good and all that, but that does entail that we completely free decision making people.
#24
Quote by Trefellin
Put some Marvin Gaye on the record player and then try to tell me that he ain't got no soul!

+1


But that would be true if we were isolated and on our own with no changing environment, also it's impossible to know all of the different processes because they change due to evolution and variation within a species.
Quote by SLonergan
I think the Raw Power guitars look like badly painted Easter Eggs.


Peter Green Jimi Hendrix Tom Morello Joe Bonamassa John Frusciante Eric Clapton Paul Gilbert B.B. King
#26
Quote by CoreysMonster
really? I'm looking for a more scientific approach than a philosophical one.

You're not going to get any where.

You're stepping into the realms of philosophy dude unfortunately.
#27
It's already done in your post. You stated that someone with our "exact DNA". That in itself is impossible, as DNA is unique to each person. Twins have very similar DNA but it is not the same.
Quote by dubstar92
A few years a ago, I played with it alot and got my time down to 42 secs. Right now, I'm probably around a 55 sec average.
#29
i believe that the "soul" is our ability to make choices, free will. this cannot be explained by a series of chemical reactions in the brain and nobody knows why we can do this.
#30
Quote by CoreysMonster
"There is no such thing as a soul, and there is no such thing as free will. every decision or thought that mankind has ever made or had is nothing more than a process of chemical reactions in our brains that were caused by chance and previous reactions. If one were to know every physical law and every way the human body reacted to outside impressions, one would be able to perfectly predict the outcome of the human race."

to me, this is a very depressing thought, that our entire being is nothing but a bunch of chemicals, there is no such thing as a "self" or a "conciousness", but everything we think is what any other person with our exact DNA and experiences would think in the same situation, thus, there is no such thing as an "I", because it is not unique to ourself.

any objections?

I don't really find that depressing, it doesn't change anything. There is still the illusion of free will and consciousness, and that's good enough for me.
sup?
#31
Quote by Craigo
You're not going to get any where.

You're stepping into the realms of philosophy dude unfortunately.



I can try, it's my choic---- huh.
#32
Quote by CoreysMonster
so copypasta rules our minds?

Yeah, our brains got tired of making up new ways of ruling our actions, so they downloaded pirate mindsets from thepiratebrain.org
🙈 🙉 🙊
#33
Seems to be related to determinism which is refuted through Quantum Uncertainty and the like. Since those chemical reactions involve the movement of electrons is makes it impossible to perfectly predict every chemical reaction. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle essentially states that it is impossible to know the location and velocity of an electron and by extending that I suppose we arrive at chemical reactions not having pre-determined courses. This is a very well tested theory although there are contenders like Bohmian Mechanics (hidden variable explanations). Basically the billions of chemical reactions in your brain and environment can't be predicted to an definite degree.

I too came across this way of thinking naturally but when I read into physics a bit a while ago it pointed out determinism doesn't work.
Last edited by muse_ at Mar 17, 2009,
#34
Not to mention that evolution is impossible to predict because it is the culmination of millions of years worth of chance tiny mutations. It's not working towards some end goal, just survival and adaptation.
the lesser known of the 4
#35
Quote by abs_n91
NO SUCH THING as the SOUL ffs.
Such bull****
Yes, we are a bunch of cells, and everything that ever happens in life is a series of physical, biological and chemical processes inside us.
Conciousness, I'm not sure about, but I ****ing hate anyone who thinks we have thoughts because we have a soul.


This. The idea of a soul is an outdated piece of nonesense that nobody with a brain in their head should consider to be real.

All our thoughts and ideas are just chemical reactions as the above quote stated. Do not allow this to take anything away from that fact by the way. It reminds me of when religious nuts say 'you think humans are JUST animals'. Yes, we are but isn't the mona lisa JUST paint!? Isn't music JUST sound? A guitar is JUST some metal and wood. So what? It's still fantastic isn't it?
#36
Quote by CoreysMonster

I can try, it's my choic---- huh.

In that case, I wish you well and good luck on your search, but you'll honestly never know for cirtain or not until you die, it's like asking if God or an afterlife exists.
There's no real evidence for it, but then there's no real evidence against it either.

EDIT.
I can tell you however that there is also no real evidence for or against any number of mythological creatures, and we don't generaly believe in those, so why believe in anything else with no evidence for or against it?
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Mar 17, 2009,
#37
Quote by SlackerBabbath
In that case, I wish you well and good luck on your search, but you'll honestly never know for cirtain or not until you die, it's like asking if God or an afterlife exists.
There's no real evidence for it, but then there's no real evidence against it either.


But once again the 'you can't disprove it' sort of fails when you look at all the other stuff we can't disprove. Until you see a reason to think something is real then basing your life around wished for outcomes may seem nice but you'd be acting ignorant on purpose.
#39
Quote by The Clerk
But once again the 'you can't disprove it' sort of fails when you look at all the other stuff we can't disprove. Until you see a reason to think something is real then basing your life around wished for outcomes may seem nice but you'd be acting ignorant on purpose.


See my edit ^
#40
Quote by Craigo
Existentialism has a habit of being arrogant. We're not THAT free.

The whole projecting yourself into the future thing is all good and all that, but that does entail that we completely free decision making people.

No, we really aren't, but my (somewhat limited) studies of Sartre would say that he accounts for that by saying that some choices simply make more sense within certain ways we have decided to relate to the world, which is why some are more difficult than others.

I'm not necessarily convinced by all of his theories, but damn is he ever a great read (despite how ridiculously dense all of his writings are).
Page 1 of 3