#1
Hey guys

I'm trying to figure out how certain notes fit into a certain chord progression

say you have an F#m11* A, E progression but over those chords the notes are being played G#, A and B

I don't know how that works :\

since none of those really have any of the notes, you know, but they work over those chords, I'm trying to learn how to play "what" notes over "what" chords if you have a certain progression like Cadd9, E, F, Fm


* The f#m11 looks like this

e 0
b 0
g 2
d 4
a x
e 2
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
#2
You may want to rethink how you named that chord. Look at the notes you have...F#-E-B-B-E. If you had an A, the minor 3rd of F# in there you could say it was an F#m11 but as it's voiced I'd call in an Esus2/F#. The G#, A, and B work of it because G# is the major 3rd in E, A is the Perfect 4th, or 11th, and B is the perfect 5th.
#3
All those notes are in all those chords. G# is the 9th of the Fm11, the 7th of A, and the third of E. A is the 3rd of the F#m11, the root of A, and the 4th (acts as the 11th) of E. The B is the 11th of the F#min11, the 9th of the A, and the 5th of the E.

As you can see, all the notes in the melody can be found right in all the chords being used

Part of understand how these notes work over the chords is understanding all the notes in the chords, and its tough to visualize this on a fretboard. I recommend spelling out the chords on a piano and seeing where the notes fit to get a better understanding
#4
Quote by Ty17983
You may want to rethink how you named that chord. Look at the notes you have...F#-E-B-B-E. If you had an A, the minor 3rd of F# in there you could say it was an F#m11 but as it's voiced I'd call in an Esus2/F#. The G#, A, and B work of it because G# is the major 3rd in E, A is the Perfect 4th, or 11th, and B is the perfect 5th.


The second fret of the G string is an A.
#5
I understand how those notes work, since they're in the the same key of E

but I don't understand how they work like, with the chord you know

the G# with the Esus2/F# (I thought it was a Esus2/sus4 at first but I wasn't sure

and the A with the a I can understand and the B with the E, because B is the 5th in the triad of E

My band wrote a song and I have no idea what notes to play, like I'm drawing blanks and I'm trying to think of some of my favorite music and wonder how those notes work

if you guys could help me with some ideas, that'd be cool

the chords are Cadd9, E, F, Fm and the chorus is C, Bb, F, Fm

So I'm thinking it's in the key of C major

which is C D E F G A B, and I know what sound I want but I don't know what notes to go with it, because it's not really a normal progression to me, with the transition from F to Fm.

So all I'm asking is, from a technical standpoint what notes should be played just to create that , well I don't know what word to use, because it's subjective, but just "that thing"
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
#6
Wow, that was my bad, I read that tab wrong. Disregard what I said on that one. Now let me try and redeem myself by addressing your other question. C major would work over the Cadd9 and the F chords just fine as they imply C Major and F Lydian respectively. The problem happens over the E and the Fm during the verse and the Bb during the chorus. For the verse you have a G# as the major 3rd of the E and the Ab as the minor 3rd of the Fm which are enharmonically the same note. Over those chords you could use E Phrygian Dominant, which is spelled out E-F-G#(Ab)-A-B-C-D. For the Chorus with the Bb, I would play C Mixolydian, which is C-D-E-F-G-A-Bb, over the C, Bb, and F chords which would imply C Mixolydian, Bb Lydian, and F Major. Then over that Fm Chord E Phrygian Dominant would obviously still work. Those are just a couple options though.

P.S.
Dave Weiner actually gives a really good lesson on this stuff on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGJl3_tc9no
Last edited by Ty17983 at Mar 18, 2009,
#7
Thanks man that really helps me out

But I guess my real question is, if I were to take those notes that I showed earlier with the 3 chords and just change it to what I'm playing, what notes would I be playing, if you understand what I'm saying?

I was thinking maybe an E- G# and A, over the Cadd9-E-F-Fm

but I haven't studied much theory in a long time,
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
Last edited by TDKshorty at Mar 18, 2009,
#8
Happy to help out. Now, Do you mean playing the same notes as in the same degrees over each chord? If thats the case, what you had over the first chord was a major 2nd/9th, the major 3rd, and the perfect 4th. Now, applying that to each of the other chords you would just pull those same degrees out of the scales that you're using over each of the chords. So over Cadd9 it would be D-E-F, from the C major scale. Over E it would be F-G#-A if you're using phrygian dominant as suggested before. Over the F, it would be G-A-B if you want to use F Lydian or G-A-Bb for F major. Then finally G-Ab-Bb over the Fm.
#9
Quote by Ty17983
Happy to help out. Now, Do you mean playing the same notes as in the same degrees over each chord? If thats the case, what you had over the first chord was a major 2nd/9th, the major 3rd, and the perfect 4th. Now, applying that to each of the other chords you would just pull those same degrees out of the scales that you're using over each of the chords. So over Cadd9 it would be D-E-F, from the C major scale. Over E it would be F-G#-A if you're using phrygian dominant as suggested before. Over the F, it would be G-A-B if you want to use F Lydian or G-A-Bb for F major. Then finally G-Ab-Bb over the Fm.


Yeah I meant as like the same thing, how he's playing the G#A B over that but transition it to the same key and chords that I'm playing
I'm at school so I can't play guitar right now but I'll try it out when I get home!
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
#10
Quote by Ty17983
I would play C Mixolydian, which is C-D-E-F-G-A-Bb, over the C, Bb, and F chords which would imply C Mixolydian, Bb Lydian, and F Major. Then over that Fm Chord E Phrygian Dominant would obviously still work. Those are just a couple options though.


You realize that you can't play one mode and have it infer three right.....it's about where you resolve to. In that case he's still just playing an F Major scale since he resolves to F (V-IV-I in the chorus)
#11
The way I was taught to view changes was that each chord is a key change in and of itself, so if you use the same notes over different chords and you are actually using target notes within each chord then yeah, using only the notes of C mixolydian you would be playing in a different mode across each chord. It's all a matter of how you want to think about it. Here is what Dave Weiner says about a simple progression in C Major...

"First, we know we derived the chords from C major so, duh, we can play C Major
over the entire prog. Or, it’s relative minor, A minor.
OR we can think more modally. In this approach we can still simply play Cmaj,
but don’t think of it as C maj. Think of C maj as D Dorian over the Dmin chord,
F Lydian over the F maj chord, C Ionian over the Cmaj chord and G Mixo over
the G chord. Yes, it’s the exact same notes as our parent scale, but thinking
modally should make you change your focus to the key notes of each mode and
use them to compliment the chord they’re playing over."

So if you would target the b7th of C over the C, the #4th of Bb over the Bb and the major 3rd major 7th of F over the F then you damn sure are implying three modes. Thats the approach that I just detailed, and I really don't think Dave is wrong.
I was just using all the modes in the C Mixolydian form to keep things a little less confusing.
Last edited by Ty17983 at Mar 20, 2009,
#12
It's not a modal piece unless the chord progression implies it. Ever. And even then, modal music has very strict guidelines that must be followed to guarantee its modality without question.

I'm not trying to **** on your parade but it's all about the resolution.

If you play E Phrygian and the progression resolves to C, you're still just playing C Ionian but you're making it out to be more complicated than it is by saying it's in 3 different modes.

If you had 12 passages of each chord, then by all means sure this passage could be considered D Dorian, that one F Lydian, etc. But for a simple chord progression? No.
#13
The way I was taught to view changes was that each chord is a key change in and of itself, so if you use the same notes over different chords and you are actually using target notes within each chord then yeah, using only the notes of C mixolydian you would be playing in a different mode across each chord. It's all a matter of how you want to think about it.


Not really. Words have definitions, and modes don;t work that way. That progression really isn't modal, and there's no reason to drag modes into it at all. You most certainly are not modulating between relative modes over each chord.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.