#1
thinking about getting an invader humbucker to replace my bridge pickup
i play mainly metal (early metallica, trivium, maiden, dragonforce etc) so want to know if this is suitable for lead and rhythm playing.

im not an expert but the specs seem to sugest that for solos high up the neck (past fret 15) the sound will be crap

anyone got a similar set up i.e. an invader as the bridge for a basswood bodied guitar
#2
well ive just ordered one so im looking forward to getting it
its dirty when clean, but the best exampes are avenged sevenfold, synyster gates' tone is amazing
and the lamb of god guys!
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#4
The invader is only muddy if you don't know how to wield it. You can throw distortion boxes on the most articulate pickups in the world and make them muddy. It all depends on how you play, what you play through, and your knowledge of how to tweak your amp. I played on an invader for a few years and thought it was actually a pretty nice pickup.
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#5
Quote by properpat
The invader is only muddy if you don't know how to wield it. You can throw distortion boxes on the most articulate pickups in the world and make them muddy. It all depends on how you play, what you play through, and your knowledge of how to tweak your amp. I played on an invader for a few years and thought it was actually a pretty nice pickup.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuulshiiiiiiiiiit.
I played an Invader dry through a Peavey JSX and it was muddy as anything.

@previous posters:
Synyster's tone is purely the Bogner at work.
Lamb of God don't use Invaders, at least not for recording.

Tell us more about your style and your rig (particularly your amp) and we'll try and help you come to an informed decision about what pickup to get.
#6
my amp is a peavey vypyr and the sound i want to get is very similar to the kill 'em all album by metallica, i also want to get a decent clean sound but im thinking of getting pearly gates in the neck position for that
#7
you dont want an invader...

metallica uses EMGs 90% of the time, but emgs usually dont sound great through solid state amps...
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They stopped asking
#8
Man, folks get so serious on here. It's not like I called anybody's Mom fat or anything. lol People need to relax, it's not that serious.
Fargen Olde 800 1x12 Combo
Ernie Ball/Musicman Axis Super Sport Rosewood with custom HighOrder Pickups
#9
Quote by properpat
Man, folks get so serious on here. It's not like I called anybody's Mom fat or anything. lol People need to relax, it's not that serious.



Agreed. There are always bandwagon people, and the "lolz teh Invad00rz is teh muddiez7 pikupz I hav hurd" bandwagon is growing in strength, erroneously so.


Just like people positively bandwagon on Swineshead and Barknuckle pickups because people here told them they are good, people here bandwagon against the Invader because "teh internetz forumz peep3lz" tell them it's muddy.


Please, all you haters, go out and try the gear you're actually talking about ( and for more than a few moments in one guitar made of one species of wood running through one amp in a music shop ) before you come on here blasting away with your opinions based on ( surprise ) other people's opinions.


The Invader has lots of admirable qualities for metal and hard rock music, so don't discount it just because a bunch of forum junkies said it's muddy. Most likely those forum junkies were playing with too much gain, not enough mids, and too much lows, resulting in a muddy sound no matter what pickup they chose. Go play it for yourself and formulate your own interpretation of the gear, based on meaningful and personal experience, not on the opinions of e-dwellers like me and the rest of the folks here.
#10
Don't ever play EMGs. They're empty sounding. If you've gotta have actives, go blackout.
The Invader, as someone else said, is good if you know how to wield it. Although, it is sometimes too hot. Way too hot.
The Dimebucker is a lot closer to what you'd want to play with. Or maybe a JB, though it's very Bon Jovi.
You could also get some other actives... I've heard some good ones out there.
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#11
Maybe a Dimarzio? Not sure which one maybe an X2N. I have a jb in my sg, it sounds quite nice in mahogany, great for metal, although, I'm thinking about switching it out for something else, probably a dimarzio X2N. I'm switching it out because it kinda lacks in the low end.
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#12
Quote by Emoishboy
Don't ever play EMGs. They're empty sounding.



This is a strange comment considering many hundreds of professional musicians from every genre on the planet use and love EMG pickups....


#13
I'm not going to bash emg's but its never going to sound like passive pickups. you just have to decide what you want. take a look around, half the metal world has emg's loaded into their axe. usually 81 + 85 for the typical zack wylde. 81 + 86 for metalica. dimebag had passive bill lawrence L-500XL. and it sounds great from what I'm told. I dont know anything about the invader. actually I dont know what to tell you cause I don't even know what pickups you have right now. I'm guessing that since its basswood you have an ibanez or fender. your looking at humbuckers so I'm guessing you have humbuckers already. its very important when switching out one humbucker that you know for sure whats going in is going to be a good match. magnet strength and hotness should be very close or you will have a setup thats not very usable. its ok to have a mismatch if you never plan on using both humbuckers at the same time. look for other peoples setups and try to copy what they did in the neck AND bridge. also if you are on some crappy "duncan designed" or ibanez brand pickups, they both have to go as soon as possible. switching out tone and vol pots for mil spec CTS pots, good wire, orange cap etc.. never hurts either.
#14
Quote by lumberjack
Agreed. There are always bandwagon people, and the "lolz teh Invad00rz is teh muddiez7 pikupz I hav hurd" bandwagon is growing in strength, erroneously so.


Just like people positively bandwagon on Swineshead and Barknuckle pickups because people here told them they are good, people here bandwagon against the Invader because "teh internetz forumz peep3lz" tell them it's muddy.


Please, all you haters, go out and try the gear you're actually talking about ( and for more than a few moments in one guitar made of one species of wood running through one amp in a music shop ) before you come on here blasting away with your opinions based on ( surprise ) other people's opinions.


The Invader has lots of admirable qualities for metal and hard rock music, so don't discount it just because a bunch of forum junkies said it's muddy. Most likely those forum junkies were playing with too much gain, not enough mids, and too much lows, resulting in a muddy sound no matter what pickup they chose. Go play it for yourself and formulate your own interpretation of the gear, based on meaningful and personal experience, not on the opinions of e-dwellers like me and the rest of the folks here.

This is a very presumptious post.
Your entire argument is based on the fact that you're sure the anti-Invader bandwagon is based around word of mouth.
I certainly can't speak for anybody else but I make a point of trying gear before I buy it, reccomend it or advise against it. Actually I stop by at music stores every time I go out; bless them, they still think I haven't found the right guitar for myself yet. I've tried the Invader in both Les Pauls and Superstrats, through Cornfords and Peaveys and I could not for the love of God get a sound I really liked. And I really wanted to like it, because it looked so cool. And if what you said about the effect of amp settings on clarity while testing pickups really was true then those people would advise against every pickup they've ever tried, which certainly doesn't seem to be the case.
As for Swineshead and Bare Knuckle, I couldn't comment on the Swinesheads because I haven't tried them and so can't form a valid opinion on them, but for God's sake, if you'd tried Bare Knuckles you'd know what the hype is actually about. Sure, there may be some slightly less desirable ones (the PG Blues set aren't up to much unless you're actually Peter Green and the Miracle Man can sound sterile run clean) but at its peak Bare Knuckles are simply unsurpassed in my opinion in terms of tone. I've had the VH2s (and still have them, on the bench for when I get a new guitar) and I've tried the Rebel Yells (which are my favourite pickups EVER), the Holy Divers, the Emeralds, the PG Blues and the Cold Sweats. So don't accuse me of jumping on the bandwagon.
Did you ever consider that Bandwagons might be based around the valid opinions of some genuinely respectable people?

I agree, you should try things before you buy them to make sure you're not missing anything but Jesus Christ don't be so presumptious. Could you have at least tried to spend more time elaborating on the "admirable qualities" of the Invader rather than just complaining about the validity (or lack thereof) of mass opinion?
Last edited by Rock Pig at Mar 19, 2009,
#15
Pros of invader:
-Very high output, will push any decent tube amp into nice grainy fat overdrive
-Looks badass
-When used as a neck pickup its the fattest solo sound I've ever heard

Cons:
-Cleans are like meh
-The muddyish stuff people constantly talk about is to an extent true.
-A little too bassy for my tastes

All in all, its a good fat metal pickup, but its not teh brootalz which is the problem, because I think people slap these in their guitar, drop their mids and boost the bass and treble and hear just poop.

So you take an already bassy and high output pickup, destroy THE VERY EQ RANGE IT BOOSTS and expect it to sound good? No.

Not even metallica destroyed their mids. There is a picture of a mesa that was used in a live show about a decade ago in a metallica show. Guess what? The middle slider was at dead 0 db (neither boosted nor resisted), not -8x10^234 db.

So the eq argument against the muddyness still remains, if you know what you're doing, and you have a decent tube amp, this pickup will sound pretty damn good. If you run it through a not so good solid state amp (I know there are good ss amps out there) with a horrible eq tone setup, then guess what?

I don't really have to say anything further do I?

ALSO BKP's are insanely good.
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#16
Quote by Rock Pig

I agree, you should try things before you buy them to make sure you're not missing anything but Jesus Christ don't be so presumptious. Could you have at least tried to spend more time elaborating on the "admirable qualities" of the Invader rather than just complaining about the validity (or lack thereof) of mass opinion?



You might have noticed the POINT of my post was not to add an opinion to either side, but rather to alert the thread starter that there are some well defined biases that float around on this forum which are not based on experience. Yes I was complaining, and I will continue to complain as long as we see posts like the one above about EMG's: "don't play them ever, they sound hollow". Really? Never ever play EMG's? They all sound hollow? Has this person tried ALL the EMG pickups there are, in a variety of amps, and with a variety of guitars? Has he, after those experiences, decided that every single pickup made by EMG is hollow sounding? All of them? Of course not. I would guess that poster has played about 5-6 different models of EMG pickups or variations thereof, at the most.

I thank you for having a well informed opinion that is based on your personal experience, and I'm not trying to discount that. What I am trying to do is draw attention to the unfortunate reality is that there are a lot of folks trolling around on here who hear a few people say something is "just so", and begin shouting it from the rooftops without actually having any experience with the gear/moding/building.


I said the Invader has admirable qualities for metal, but I never discounted whether or not it was an inherently muddy pickup. I didn't come out with a stance either overly for or against the pickup, but rather a stance against the TS being influenced by strong opinions on here that seem to be, in many cases, founded on merely other peoples opinions. Your post exempted of course, as, if we are to believe what you say is true, it is based on experience.


I'm just trying to encourage open mindedness; that the TS be open to trying all the suggested pickups out there, taking into account the opinions he finds here, but to ultimately make up his OWN opinion based on his OWN experience.


If you would like me to cast my vote, here it is:

The Invader is a very high output pickup, with loads of bass and low mids. It is a fact that the hotter a pickup is, the higher its propensity towards muddier tones. If you dial in a nice tight sound on a JB, wire in the Invader in its place and play through the same sound, you will probably get a muddy sound since the pickup is a good bit hotter and has more lows than the JB. However, if you take those characteristics into account and dial your amp in differently to accommodate ( just like you wouldn't dial in an amp the same for a Strat as a Les Paul ), then I think the Invader is a very respectable option for high-gain tones.
#17
Can't be bothered to quote because of long posts, but
@sesstreets: I dunno. I disagree, I spent a while tweaking EQ trying to dial out the muddiness, and while it was certainly better when I was way out of my amp setting comfort zone, I still though it was muddier than most, even taking into account its output.
@lumberjack: That's cool, I agree completely. I misinterpreted your post somewhat, I'll admit.
Quote by lumberjack
if we are to believe what you say is true

I try many many many things.
It's a passtime for me
It helps that most of the workers at nearby stores are total idiots; they either don't recognise me or think I still haven't found what I'm after.
I will admit that I have formed some invalid opinions based on what I have heard before. I can only try what I can find >.>
Fortunately there's a pretty good secondhand thing in one of my local stores and all sorts of modded instruments come in, so I get to try loads of aftermarket pickups; for my first guitar I could have had a bona fide Ibanez PGM301 with a Duncan Custom Custom in the bridge for £550. I'm still really wishing I hadn't let that go. How very stupid of me ^^;
#18
just to sorta round off this thread, i tried out the invaders but i went for the dimebuckers as a bridge pickup because it was more like the sound i wanted, and i got pearly gates as the neck pick ups. thanks for all your help

as a closing comment i didnt find the invaders too muddy
#19
Quote by captsnow
thinking about getting an invader humbucker to replace my bridge pickup
i play mainly metal (early metallica, trivium, maiden, dragonforce etc) so want to know if this is suitable for lead and rhythm playing.

im not an expert but the specs seem to sugest that for solos high up the neck (past fret 15) the sound will be crap

anyone got a similar set up i.e. an invader as the bridge for a basswood bodied guitar



get yourself an alternative 8 from duncan, the only metal pickup!
#20
This is just my experience.

I have an Invader on a guitar I use exclusively for down and drop tuning. It sounds great for heavy low-end riffing. It doesn't sound that good for soloing. The single high notes lack clarity.

I should also add that the Invader sounds much better on tube amps than solid state ones in my experience.

I would not say it is a bad pickup. It just seems to be focused on brutality rather than clarity. If that's what you want, go for it. If you need to solo with it, try a frequency booster to kick up the highs.
#21
the alternative 8 is BIG sounding pickup, it's got alot of chunk to it but you can do leads easily too.

my reccomendation for you = Seymour Duncan Alternative 8, you wont be sorry.
#22
Quote by captsnow
my amp is a peavey vypyr and the sound i want to get is very similar to the kill 'em all album by metallica, i also want to get a decent clean sound but im thinking of getting pearly gates in the neck position for that


Don't get me wrong, I'm not keen in SH-8's... but didn't James have an SH-8 in his Epiphone V during the Kill 'Em All days?
#23
People, this thread is over.
He bought a Dimebucker and a Pearly Gates. Says so in the first page.
You should learn to read.

Btw the Dimebucker is IMO even worse than the Invader but I'm not going to be held responsible for turning this thread into an argument.