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#1
Why do all the theory jocks I come across online seem to listen to/play metal? I feel like I'm on a totally different path, musically. Even my guitar teacher (who is an old man) was jamming to Dreamtheater the other day. Personally, I can't stand any type of metal or 'shredding' music. I respect the technical difficulty it requires, but for me it doesn't bring about any emotions or feeling. I work in a record store, so most of the stuff I tend to listen to is indy/pop/alternative/rock - basically a lot of really good unknown bands. I'm also waiting to hear back from Berklee School of Music as to whether I'm going to be accepted or not. Unfortunately, it seems they tend to only teach three types of music - jazz, classical, and metal. If I had to choose one of the three it would definitely be classical...but I'm more of a fan of playing newer kinds of music (Radiohead, for example). So why is John Petrucci being taught in schools, and not Jonny Greenwood? Am I the only non-metal head on UG?
#4
Quote by jtfletch11
Why do all the theory jocks I come across online seem to listen to/play metal? I feel like I'm on a totally different path, musically. Even my guitar teacher (who is an old man) was jamming to Dreamtheater the other day. Personally, I can't stand any type of metal or 'shredding' music. I respect the technical difficulty it requires, but for me it doesn't bring about any emotions or feeling. I work in a record store, so most of the stuff I tend to listen to is indy/pop/alternative/rock - basically a lot of really good unknown bands. I'm also waiting to hear back from Berklee School of Music as to whether I'm going to be accepted or not. Unfortunately, it seems they tend to only teach three types of music - jazz, classical, and metal. If I had to choose one of the three it would definitely be classical...but I'm more of a fan of playing newer kinds of music (Radiohead, for example). So why is John Petrucci being taught in schools, and not Jonny Greenwood? Am I the only non-metal head on UG?



Listen to Steve Vai.
Then tell me there is no emotion in shredding.
Don't be so damn ignorant. I LOVE metal. I probably will until I die.

But you just made a HUGE generalization.

I like indie, rock, acoustic, classical, metal, metalcore, deathcore... it goes on.
Obviously, different kinds of metal.

And Dream Theater bores me.
Three is better 'prog metal'.

Seriously, listen to Steve Vai's Tender Surrender.
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#5
Wait, your teacher can "JAM" to DT....by any chance is he John Petrucci, but since you''re not into that kind of music you never realised?

And from a purely musical point of view, those bands and genre's are seen as more "respectable" in terms of musicianship, whether you feel they make emotionless music or music that isnt as good as others is besides the point
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#6
berklee doesnt teach metal. its rock. they have whole classes on the theories that hendrix and the beatles used. and why dont you try some of petrucci's stuff it will blow your mind.
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#7
metal should go and take a bath with a toaster..... unless you consider GN'R Metal
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#8
for one thing, the reason berklee seems to mostly teach jazz, classical, and metal is because there is a lot of music theory to understand etc. why would you go to berklee to learn how to play pop music?

this also explains why a lot of guitarists like that kind of stuff.
#9
Because, no disrespect to johnny greenwood, his style isnt very musical.
#10
Nope

I would probably listen to that type of stuff too if the singing wasn't so whiny

/opinion

I feel you on the whole "emotionless" part. Think about it this way, you could have two lead guitarist, one who's fast and one that plays with emotion. You bring something else to the table.
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#11
lol, i know what ya mean,i love all kinds of music (punk to blues to "grunge" to older rock to some metal), but shredding never really does anything for me, (asides from the wow that guy is epic factor). Having said that i love jeff healey, and he wasnt exactly what i'd call a slow guitarist, but id have to say id put the feel of a song first.
#12
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metal should go and take a bath with a toaster..... unless you consider GN'R Metal


I'm ashamed that i share a love of both GnR and RCHP with you.
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#13
saying there is no emotion in metal is incorrect in my opinion

I love metal, but I also love a lot of other genres. There is a large community of metal snobs that only listen to metal, and I think thats crazy, thats like only eating pizza. There is a lot you can learn from all the genres out there regardless how much you like or dislike that specific type.

I agree though, that metal seems to dominate though - but its a trend to a lot of people. 10 years ago every white suburban middle class kid was all over hip hop, and it was hug....lately it seems that metal is replacing that and now we see these "scene kids" all trying to be the next great metal band, but its all generic and sterile.

in another 10 years another genre will be the "in" thing, until then we are stuck with dealing with a plethora of crappy metal

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#14
I understand a lot of metal is heavy into theory, and like I said, I respect that. It's just that...I plan on making a living out of music, I plan on going to school for it. I just don't want to be forced into learning a certain genre of music that does nothing for me emotionally, yah know? I mean, can't a person be an expert in theory without having to learn how to shred and head bang?


Oh and btw, there were already 8 replies within 30 seconds of me posting this. Just thought I'd share.. it made me lol.
Last edited by jtfletch11 at Mar 18, 2009,
#15
^ the base idea behind shredding is playing music thats complex from a technicality standpoint. you don't have to play metal to shred. btw, i can promise you they don't just teach 3 genres at berklee. they teach music, but if you can only interpret music as 3 categories then thats an issue with you and not the school.
#16
I'm not saying exactly that they only teach three genres, but the students that go there tend to be easily categorized into those specific three.

And I realize that you don't have to play metal to shred.. but even if someone is 'shredding' to say, a jazz chord progression in G major, it still doesn't do anything for me. I don't know, playing faster just doesn't increase the amount of feeling for me. Quality.. not quantity, perhaps.
#17
Quote by jtfletch11
I mean, can't a person be an expert in theory without having to learn how to shred and head bang?


yes of course, there have been experiments that have show that people who are into metal listen to music for the same reason as people who listen to orchestral music, these people have a certain mind set and want to know everything there is to know about the way music is put together. Also theory isn't constrained by genre, theory can be applied to what ever genre you want.
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#18
Quote by jtfletch11
I'm not saying exactly that they only teach three genres, but the students that go there tend to be easily categorized into those specific three.

And I realize that you don't have to play metal to shred.. but even if someone is 'shredding' to say, a jazz chord progression in G major, it still doesn't do anything for me. I don't know, playing faster just doesn't increase the amount of feeling for me. Quality.. not quantity, perhaps.

how is it that you say you hate shred or anything played fast but you plan on going for classical guitar. you know that requires a bit of "shred" right. in fact a good chunk of classical music in general requires pretty good chops.
#19
Quote by mergapoot
yes of course, there have been experiments that have show that people who are into metal listen to music for the same reason as people who listen to orchestral music, these people have a certain mind set and want to know everything there is to know about the way music is put together. Also theory isn't constrained by genre, theory can be applied to what ever genre you want.


Where can I read about these experiments? Note this isn't an 'I don't believe they exist' call-out, I'm genuinely interested to find out about them, because I'm interested in how music is put together and yet (despite attempts) I really can't get into metal (and I'm not very into ochestral music either). 'Course, I don't rule out the possibility that people like me are just an exception, but it seems like they'd be a pretty significant minority.
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#20
It bugs me a bit too. Metal is great and all in it's own respects and I definitely love listening to it occasionally, but I need more variety.

I think (not to stereotype) that UG attracts alot of the metal scene for the most part. Just look at the "news" bulletins posted on the main page - how often do you hear anything about really any genre that *isn't* metal or something along the same lines (obscene amounts of distortion, tasty licks from the devil himself, chugga-chugga, Norwegian influences, etc). I searched for "jazz" in news and I got like 2 hits. Wow. Two hits in the entire database of news since UG has been posted? Funny since jazz has been around a hell of a lot longer than metal has, and influenced musicians tenfold but who am I to complain - jazzguitar.be lets me get my fix

On a side note, I can't help but **** my pants with laughter every time some brilliant philosopher of a metalhead (and sadly, more than likely around the age of 14 or so) likens the genre to Jesus's second coming and how brilliant and incredible it is. It's like some stunning revelation or breakthrough - wow, you must secretly have some deep inner connection with metal that nobody else has and thus clearly you UNDERSTAND it to a higher level that no other musician can. 14 years old and breaking barriers with scientific proof that metal and classical works are parallel? I've been such a blind fool.

They are talented musicians, granted, but I'm pretty sure Bach and Mozart weren't thinking "OH MY GOD! I'm going to write this piece so in 300 years time "metal" can be invented, which will SECRETLY be a DIRECT representation of my life's work!"

I'm sorry, I truly didn't mean to rant for so long about all that. This isn't directed at anybody, nor should it be taken in poor taste.

PS: I love In Flames. I'm not a hater just an observer.

As you were!
Last edited by moonlightdrive at Mar 18, 2009,
#21
This is an awful, awful thread. Guy asks a reasonable question and he gets the automated responses about how ignorant he is, how awesome metal is and how nobody should ever study pop music ever because it clearly has no theory behind it.

As far as I know Berklee doesn't focus on metal as much as it does jazz or classical, but then again I'm not that in the know about Berklee. Fact is metal is the genre of choice amongst a lot of electric guitar players at the moment, so obviously there will be people who don't like it that feel like 'outsiders' or whatever. When it comes to music schools and the like, you'll have to ask the schools themselves and see if what they teach on their courses is the sort of thing you want to be learning.
#23
^^+1.

although i do believe metal, jazz and classical are the most theory-heavy styles, as would require college level education.

personally i love metal, but i enjoy anything talented. even country music.
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Last edited by Ribcage at Mar 18, 2009,
#24
I like basically everything, from jazz fusion to technical death metal. The thing is that you're probably (emphasis on probably since I don't know you) just shoving the whole genre of metal, with all its subgenres, into the same category and saying that there's no feel. I don't mean to sound like a dick, but as an example: if somebody hears Cannibal Corpse and then only assumes all metal is like that... That person will get a very distorted view of what metal actually is, because there's so many different subgenres within metal, and there's a great share of some really good MUSIC (not just random powerchord chugging with a growling guy in the front) within the genre of metal that is missed by most people.

I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion, because you are, and if you think a certain way I can't change it. And I'm not saying this just to "win" now, but you should definately keep looking and try to find something that you like within the genre, because I can almost guarantee that you'll find something you like if you keep looking.
Last edited by e-free at Mar 18, 2009,
#25
I personally think metal is overrated. People love it so much and there are tons of metalheads who will listen to the next metal album that comes out and think it is so special. It really isn't that special, the music might be technical and it may be heavy but that doesn't make it any better than other genres.

Taste comes into play, but metal is starting to be a "bandwagon" thing now. People automatically go to metal if they want to be "different," finding your own taste of music rarely comes into play.

Most of the time it is taste though. Metal isn't like pop, people don't listen to it just because it is popular.
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#26
Alot of pop music is written by songwriters with extensive ammounts of music training behind them.
#29
Quote by tmfiore
I personally think metal is overrated. People love it so much and there are tons of metalheads who will listen to the next metal album that comes out and think it is so special. It really isn't that special, the music might be technical and it may be heavy but that doesn't make it any better than other genres.

Taste comes into play, but metal is starting to be a "bandwagon" thing now. People automatically go to metal if they want to be "different," finding your own taste of music rarely comes into play.

Most of the time it is taste though. Metal isn't like pop, people don't listen to it just because it is popular.


Yeah, I understand what you're saying, both pop music and metal music can be a "bandwagon" thing, but just for different reasons. Pop because it is the popular thing/mainstream, and metal because it is the popular way to be different from the mainstream.

Back to the thread, honestly, I think every genre can suffer from what the TS is talking about, not just metal/shred. I've listened to popular bands and spent most of my time thinking "wow, they're really scraping the bottom of the barrel here," but I feel much the same way when listening to bands such as cannibal corpse, as someone mentioned earlier. It's not what genre the music is that makes it truly good, it's the amount of work and creativity that goes into it.
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#30
You don't like it, don't listen to it. No one cares if you think it's good.
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Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#31
Quote by jtfletch11
Why do all the theory jocks I come across online seem to listen to/play metal? I feel like I'm on a totally different path, musically. Even my guitar teacher (who is an old man) was jamming to Dreamtheater the other day. Personally, I can't stand any type of metal or 'shredding' music. I respect the technical difficulty it requires, but for me it doesn't bring about any emotions or feeling. I work in a record store, so most of the stuff I tend to listen to is indy/pop/alternative/rock - basically a lot of really good unknown bands. I'm also waiting to hear back from Berklee School of Music as to whether I'm going to be accepted or not. Unfortunately, it seems they tend to only teach three types of music - jazz, classical, and metal. If I had to choose one of the three it would definitely be classical...but I'm more of a fan of playing newer kinds of music (Radiohead, for example). So why is John Petrucci being taught in schools, and not Jonny Greenwood? Am I the only non-metal head on UG?


hey man, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but that means everyone. your opinion isn't absolute so try to respect and understand that other people enjoy metal. just because you don't does not mean the genre is inferior.
#32
Quote by ouchies
hey man, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but that means everyone. your opinion isn't absolute so try to respect and understand that other people enjoy metal. just because you don't does not mean the genre is inferior.


..Did you even read my post? I believe the word 'respect' was included.
#33
idk.. I dont think John Mayer is really considered jazz, classical or metal.
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#34
You seem to have the strange misconception that metal is based on shredding, but that's really only a part of it. Many metal bands actually move at a dirge-like pace. You can't really base a genre on its tempo unless the tempo really is a huge defining factor of it, like happy hardcore or something.
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So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#35
Quote by victoryaloy
idk.. I dont think John Mayer is really considered jazz, classical or metal.


Neither do I, because he's a blues guitarist haha.
#36
I love metal, but I love listening to jazz and blues and classical also because it extends my use of theory and how its applied to different genres.

Metal isn't based on shredding. Shreddong is only a part of metal. Honestly I could care less for shredding. I more of the heavey riffs kinda guy. There are many different types of metal, like someone said before, Cannibal Corpse. If I just heard CC my first time someone showing me metal, I would assume all metal is like that. However, its not quite like that.

Take for instance Children of Bodom. Alot of their music sounds like a higher tempo classical music.

As for the bandwagon thing, I see it, and it kinda makes me angry. I see all these kids wearing a metallica t-shirt, they must have have played guitar hero and heard one and now they think they are metalheads. Yoiu ask someone if they like metal, they reply yes. You ask them thier favorite song and band. They say Master of Puppets - Metallica, or nowadays One.

I don't think you should just ignore metal persay. I think you should give it another chance. Try listening to to different types of metal. 80's Metal, Progressive, Death, Doom, Viking(lol), Metalcore, Nu Metal etc. I find there's a bit of metal in everyone being how there's many different genres of it, people just need to discover it.
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#37
Hm....I think saying metal is completely "emotionless" is untrue and probably beating on it a little, like putting down a genre of music, which I'm against. But yea, there are a lot of metalheads (or whatever you want to call them) on UG. But maybe that's only UG? I actually feel that pop/alternative stuff is the most popular stuff out there right now. I think guitarists being into metal is kind of justified, as playing metal tends (using this tentatively here) to have some elements that require more "advanced" technical abilities, a lets be honest, everybody has wanted to show off their guitar ability, at least a little. The genre of pop and alternative (I could be wrong) I think, is based on vocals, so you wouldn't find too many of that. I do disagree that you find a larger majority of metal lovers, over hard rock lovers though. Oh, and props to the JoePerry4Life guy.
#38
anyone who listens to a genre consistently just because It's theoretically or technically complex is a bit of a wanker imo.

One should listen to music first and foremost because it pleases the ear.

oh, and same av scope9990
#39
I wouldn't say metal is about emotion.
It's about the thrill.
Not sure how to explain it, but when I listen to, say, Painkiller by Judas Priest.....it kinda seems like I'm starting to float.
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#40
Not all Metalheads know no thoery, its the new guys who see live videos of bands playing really heavy brekdowns and headbanging like crazy and thinking they want to do that without learning any of the finer points behind music, thereofre perhaps making them ignorant olr a worse musician as a result.

There are some really great Metal Bands who are really Heavy and have really intellegant uses of theory (Opeth, Mastodon, Dream Theater (i admit they aren't always Metal though) etc) SOnif you study theory it makes any genre make more sense. Yes there is more thoery in thigs like Jazz and Classical and yes less people like it but Metal is entirly pig headed in that snese
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